2.3DISI-ftW in a MX5

[mituc]

So I'm going to have a spare engine from my 3MPS (Mazdaspeed3 gen1) and instead of throwing it in a dark and cold storage I thought I could throw it in an MX5.
Of course I may need to fabricate some adapter rings for the transmission, fabricate some motor mounts to mount it transversely, possibly alter the manifolds and clock the turbo (or fit a mirrored turbo), but I thought I'd find more info about what the challenges may be and didn't really find anything.

So do you guys have any knowledge about anyone who did this or at least attempted it and failed, so that I can at least chase that thought away and try something else instead?

Thank you!

[[R]usty]

OMG do it! So much better than an LS swap.

[Vansquish]

You'll have to modify the firewall to create enough room for the CDFP, and you may well find that the head is too tall to fit beneath the hood without modification. You will also likely have to run a custom ECU.

[mituc]

Modifying the hood a bit or even getting a custom fiberglass one should not be a real problem. Neither backporting a 3/6MPS or CX7 instrument cluster with the imobilizer and ECU and the right harness. However, a custom ECU may be an even cheaper solution, I don't know yet, I'm still in that stage when a random idea hit me at the end of the week.
I guess the firewall has to be kinked a bit no matter what larger engine goes in there, right?

[Mazdazilla6]

Okay, first things first. What gen miata are you talking about?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Okay, first things first. What gen miata are you talking about?

At this point I have no idea. I just want one with a hard top. The NBs have more rust, the NCs are harder to find cheap for an engine swap and probably have the engine compartment a bit narrower. So probably (but not necessarily) NA.

[MSP6]

The gay one.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by mituc At this point I have no idea. I just want one with a hard top. The NBs have more rust, the NCs are harder to find cheap for an engine swap and probably have the engine compartment a bit narrower. So probably (but not necessarily) NA.

In my experience (I've owned 3) NAs are the worst with rust but are the cheapest. The engine bay is pretty much identical between the NA and NB. The NC would hands down make the easiest swap since they already have mzr engines in them so the speed engine already bolts right up to the trans and engine mounts. You'd just have to figure out the exhaust, intake and firewall. You will have a hell of a harder time fitting it in an NA or NB.

Also, hardtops are the most expensive part of a miata.

[sheston]

This sounds like such a great idea. Big hp with a light engine and car, the mazda version of a cobra.

I was thinking about putting a 3.5 ecoboost in a old mustang.... but read some dealership out in the boonies is doing it. Same principle.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Also, hardtops are the most expensive part of a miata.

Yeah, I know, I simply don't like open tops, so the cabin will have to stay closed all the time.

Ok, once I will finish rebuilding my engine I will start looking into an NC shell. Thanks for the advice!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by sheston This sounds like such a great idea. Big hp with a light engine and car, the mazda version of a cobra. I was thinking about putting a 3.5 ecoboost in a old mustang.... but read some dealership out in the boonies is doing it. Same principle.

AJ Hartman Racing put one in a SN95. Click back to the "Blog" for more articles than the one i linked:

The Little Engine That Could...Almost - AJ Hartman Racing


I would also suggest the NC miata.

[naoandlater]

Not a 2.3Disi but a shop in Japan called Odula put the L3-VE from a 2.3L MZ3 into a NC. I couldn't find any info on their site but here are pics from the feature in the car mag I have.

[mituc]

So the RX8 bodywork in the engine bay needs to be cut quite a bit to fit a 2.3DISI-T engine in there. It was designed to fit 2 rotor rotary of the size of a backpack so it looks like I'm forced to go with the NC chassis which may require minimal engine bay cutting/bending.

[modusoperandi]

I'm waiting to see the outcome.

[mituc]

Although it seems more difficult to convert an RX8, and it's also a bit of a sacrilege, I think I'll go with the RX8 chassis simply because it has 4 seats, longer wheel base and wider track.

[Bingo]

But it weighs another 1000 lbs and almost had as much power as the MZR stock. While it may be more practical (which first of all you shouldn't be doing a full blown engine transplant for practicality), I don't think it would be nearly as satisfying. Doing this to an rx8 yields a slight improvement on an rx8. Doing this on a Miata is creating a totally different beast. I'm willing to bet it'll be the most fun thing you've ever driven not to mention a hit at any car show. Just my opinion.

[Yamahafreak]

Personally I wouldn't go for the rx8

The mx5 looks like it would be a lot more fun driving it with the Disi. Imo

Although I want to built a 3 rotor rotary mx5 one day.

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[MSP6]

I feel like an E tuned DISI in a miata would be a blast...as well as a death trap.. Tiny tires, no weight and RWD...Mmmmm

[spillywilly]

Same principal as an LS swapped miata but instead of a rumbling v8, it's a sick nasty disi!

+1 vote on the miata instead of rx8

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[Jeff23spl]

I'm 38 and i was thinking about which fast roadster i could get for my 40ishh crisiss

a turbo miata was on the top of the list.....But i was more looking at the approach of keeping it PI..I was expecting a speed manifold would bolt on the LF engine from the 2006+ model. So it would have been easy to put LF head on the dizi bottom or swap the crank/rod and piston into the 2L bloc if the head isn't fully compatible. And Re-use most of my speed parts on it...even a k04 would be nice to start. But i heard the exaust flange of the LF may be different. I have no idea but i have seen a PI head on a dizi bloc....
There seem to be some ready to connect megaskirt standalone for miata. If it come with a base program it could be an easy thing.

On the other hand, it would need a stronger and wider rear axle to keep it on the road like with an LS swap...

[aackthpt]

If you use the NC then you also have the option to go PRHT instead of separate hardtop... best of all worlds in some ways. I considered an LS swap to one until I sat in one (don't fit) though I have to wonder if it could be made to work with some standard fat-guy mods like foamectomy/handle removal/etc.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl I'm 38 and i was thinking about which fast roadster i could get for my 40ishh crisiss

I turn 40 tomorrow, so I'm already spooled and at full boost.
I always likes cars with a bit of practicality so that is the reason why my dream is to put the DISI-T in an RX8.

[sharksinspace]

I vote for MX5. In for results.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Bingo But it weighs another 1000 lbs and almost had as much power as the MZR stock. While it may be more practical (which first of all you shouldn't be doing a full blown engine transplant for practicality), I don't think it would be nearly as satisfying. Doing this to an rx8 yields a slight improvement on an rx8. Doing this on a Miata is creating a totally different beast. I'm willing to bet it'll be the most fun thing you've ever driven not to mention a hit at any car show. Just my opinion.

The MX5 NC 2.0 is 1250kg/2755lb, the RX8 231PS is 1350kg/2975lb. So unless I use an MX5 NA or NB the weight advantage over an RX8 is not that big, merely significant, but with a longer wheel base and wider track as well as 4 seats it will make it both more practical and easier to hoone around with. Short wheel base cars are pretty hard to drift if it comes to that, while the longer wheel base ones are a bit more dull in the good sense of the word, especially considering that I intend to use it on street.

[Jeff23spl]

but is the rx8 engine same weight of a L serie engine? If you take both shell without engine, is the RX8 remain just 100kg heavier ? Maybe the difference would increase?
i don't know but i heard few times that the rx engine was designed to be lightweight so the swap may add more weight to the rx8 than it would on the miata ?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl but is the rx8 engine same weight of a L serie engine? If you take both shell without engine, is the RX8 remain just 100kg heavier ? Maybe the difference would increase? i don't know but i heard few times that the rx engine was designed to be lightweight so the swap may add more weight to the rx8 than it would on the miata ?

I think the 2.3DISI-T engine is about 170kg/375lb with all accessories (alternator, turbo, manifolds, and so on). so yes, it may add about 50-60 more kgs to the rx8 and about 30 more to an MX5.
The weight distribution should not be compromised too much because most of the engine will sit slightly below the front axle so it should be kind of a front-mid engine car, kind of like the S2k (the S2k has the whole engine positioned below the front axle).

I'm still waiting for an answer from the Romanian Automotive Homologation Authority and if they say I can individually homologate an RX8 with this engine then I'll do it. Otherwise I'll get an MX5 NC with engine issues (I was surprised to find there are quite a few with rattling 1.8 litre engines) and convert it, but only as a last option.

[Djohns]

Hell yes this would be awesome.

[mituc]

Ok, it's going to be an RX8, I will be able to homologate this sacrilege.

[spillywilly]

Hell yea! How much power are you trying to push?

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[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by spillywilly Hell yea! How much power are you trying to push? Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I bet that question is a bit too soon.
the challenge isn't to make power with a L3VDT, all the secrets are in this forum but to swap the dizi in that frame.
There is nothing ready for it, it will be as much complicated to install it, as it would be to install even a TDI engine or any other in it. Everything will need to be custom made but he already have the engine and the knowledge around it.

BTW Even with a stock turbo and tune, the car would be faster...And i don't expect Mituc will keep it stock

[spillywilly]

You're right. The power question is the easy part lol. Plenty of formulas. I was just curious add to what the minimum might be

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[aackthpt]

Even a stock bottom end, relatively easy mods, DISI running E30 doing in the 350/350 range would be AMAZING in a RX-8. Actually if there were a good kit for mounting it, getting the cluster and such to work, and mating the trans to it I'd try to find a roller and order a motor from Edge to build one myself, because that sounds like stupid amounts of fun for the cost. You can find $3k or less RX-8 rollers without much work at all.

Honestly other than having to get it custom I think the mechanical stuff might be child's play compared to getting the cluster thing to work, from what I read. Didn't the guys who put the DISI into a Mazda 5 have to keep the ms3 cluster in the glove box just to make the DISI work right?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by spillywilly Hell yea! How much power are you trying to push?

We'll see. It will have a built engine running a GTX3071R (gen1) turbo, so don't expect less than 350bhp. For starters I will not add WMI but I will push the factory fuelling system as much as I can.
My intention is to get a GTX3071R gen2 for my 3MPS and put the current turbo in the RX.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Even a stock bottom end, relatively easy mods, DISI running E30 doing in the 350/350 range would be AMAZING in a RX-8. Actually if there were a good kit for mounting it, getting the cluster and such to work, and mating the trans to it I'd try to find a roller and order a motor from Edge to build one myself, because that sounds like stupid amounts of fun for the cost. You can find $3k or less RX-8 rollers without much work at all. Honestly other than having to get it custom I think the mechanical stuff might be child's play compared to getting the cluster thing to work, from what I read. Didn't the guys who put the DISI into a Mazda 5 have to keep the ms3 cluster in the glove box just to make the DISI work right?

With the can buss, you can probably extrac all the informations needed for driving it. Just a Torque APP and 8-10 inch tabs. The only thing it doesn'tt seem to have is the total traveled km/mile for oil changes but having the cluster in a hard to reach place can still permit a check once in a while...MAybe that info is burried somewhere in can and someone could reach it too...
You can make a cluster page for: RPM, Speed, Gaz level, Engine temp. Boost level and some more to look at engine health in another page...

I would be more afraid of the air bags devices or anything else that you keep from the RX8 but controlled by the speed computer....ABS and stability control, Fuel tank level sensor, VSS etc...

[Djohns]

If there was a kit I'd be all over this because I've got a roller rx-8 in my area for about $1500. I would aim for like 600 to the rear wheels. Plus my car is paid off next month so I'd have more funds for that project.

[mituc]

This guy here did it somehow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TObmPdSiIgw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YpBWf5LffI

I'm still trying to make him tell me more, but he isn't that eager to reply.

[Djohns]

Did you offer him a handjob in return? It's the considerate thing to do.

[aackthpt]

Originally Posted by mituc This guy here did it somehow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TObmPdSiIgw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YpBWf5LffI

Wow. So much want, though his underhood doesn't really look all that clean or well-sorted. I wonder if his A/C works. But being that he said he used the MPS ECU, and all the gauges appear to work, that's awesome.

[Yatta]

the second video appears to show a ‘stock’ mps ECU... so interested in how they defeated the need for the gauge cluster....

[mituc]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Wow. So much want, though his underhood doesn't really look all that clean or well-sorted. I wonder if his A/C works. But being that he said he used the MPS ECU, and all the gauges appear to work, that's awesome.

That is just a proof of concept, what you see in the second clip doesn't mean it's the final thing, and mine will not necessarily have to look so out of place (especially that ECU laying around the engine bay like that).
First we need to make it work and then look pretty ...and the versatune the fuck out of it!