Direct Injection Injectors

[h.h.sk1nny]

So, I know that no one makes DI injectors for your platform yet, but know that there are plenty of DI platforms cranking out the power. Have not done much research, so pimp slap me if you want. I came across these DI injectors for VW fellows. Capable of supporting 500whp. Just sayin, if I found a set of injectors that looked the same as ours, I would be the guineau pig! Here is the link. I that sooner than later, we will find some injectors for our cars that will work. Hopefully someone can actually strap on a pair and make a set for the mazdaspeed crew

Bosch OEM 2.0T FSI HDEV 1 Gasoline Direct Injection Injectors

• Share
  • Share this post on
  • Digg
  • Del.icio.us
  • Technorati
  • Twitter

__________________

Old stuff: Stock k04 12.301 @ 113.20

New Stuff: PTE 5858 and Built, not bought, by ME

[Haltech]

cheaper than i suspected

[Volcom8190]

Ask for a dimensioned drawing, They might be smaller diameter or something stupid like that.

[soul.survivor]

They look very similar. I can't figure out why someone hasn't built injectors for these cars. Hell, APR makes CP-E fuel pumps for the platform.

[Voltwings]

I know the GTI guys will swap to the Cobalt SS injectors since they're both Bosch they just plug and play. I want to say DJ explained the math to me and the SS/TC injectors were equivalent to ~1000cc's. The cobalts also have a company that makes a cam for them with an extended fuel lobe to push the pump harder, and i have personally seen a cobalt with this set up make 502 whp on 100% E85, albeit with a small amount of meth injection as well.

Point of this story being im willing to bet thats all these injectors are.

[silvapain]

We also nee to make sure the impedance and dwell time match, as well as the connector itself.

[Tyhackman15]

Has anyone looked into modifying the stock injectors? I know other platforms have that available, may be a cheaper way to get a company interested in the idea?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Tyhackman15 Has anyone looked into modifying the stock injectors? I know other platforms have that available, may be a cheaper way to get a company interested in the idea?

It's been discussed, and someone (PTP I think) cut open an injector to see what would be needed. Nothing ever came of it.

[Lex]

The Bosch injectors have a different seal type (around the tip of the injector) to start.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by soul.survivor They look very similar. I can't figure out why someone hasn't built injectors for these cars. Hell, APR makes CP-E fuel pumps for the platform.

It was explained to me that the r&d to do it (create direct injection injectors) is off the charts expensive...

@ this point, it seems like some sort of swap would be the way to go, and the necessary adapters, wiring or scaling would need to be done.

I don't know that we'll ever get something plug and play, but I can't fault hhskinny for continuing to look (thanks for posting the link btw).

I gave up hope that higher volume fueling will come in te form of a drop in injector a while ago, but still think it is great for people to continue to search for the answer.

[h.h.sk1nny]

I will email them asking dimensions, rated cc and what not. I may try to get a hold of a mazdaspeed injector and try to find something that comes close.

[Sid3wayS]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny I will email them asking dimensions, rated cc and what not. I may try to get a hold of a mazdaspeed injector and try to find something that comes close.

As long as I get it back I can send you one of the spares I have.

[h.h.sk1nny]

The new skyactiv motors use di that is rated at 3000psi, fords new na 2.0 gdi motor is also direct injected. Both fomoco parts, we need to get our hands on a set of these; Pablo!!!!

Originally Posted by Sid3wayS As long as I get it back I can send you one of the spares I have.

I will let you know, I first want to see if we can get a hold of a new skyactiv injector. Unless you don't care I have it for a while. You can PM me if you'd like to send it to me

[Lex]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny The new skyactiv motors use di that is rated at 3000psi, fords new na 2.0 gdi motor is also direct injected. Both fomoco parts, we need to get our hands on a set of these; Pablo!!!! I will let you know, I first want to see if we can get a hold of a new skyactiv injector. Unless you don't care I have it for a while. You can PM me if you'd like to send it to me

I believe everyone standardized and went with Bosch in the later motors.

The early adopters - N54s had piezo injectors that could flow enough for 800+whp and we had these oddball ones that no one else really used.

[kritz]

The head could be machined to accept a different base profile it would also need to match the fuel rail. Connectors could be swapped as well.

Sent from fastest ko4 Pu!

[Karmat]

The important thing to note here is that these aren't injectors that are developed by some aftermarket performance group but rather the OEM injectors from the S3 which naturally are a good fit for VWs.

If there was a big enough market for these DI injectors maybe some performance manufacturer would be willing to invest the R&D into this. Even if someone comes out with a bigger DI injector it'd be crazy expensive at this point.

Best bet is to continue improve on the 5th port/PI systems that we are using now.

[chuckms6]

I would like to know how close late model ecoboost heads are to fitting on the mzr....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727

[kritz]

Originally Posted by chuckms6 I would like to know how close late model ecoboost heads are to fitting on the mzr.... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727

I believe Pablo looked at that as already.

Sent from fastest ko4 Pu!

[ms3blackmica]

We would still need to be able to calibrate for a new injector which we do not have the capability to do as of right now (i.e. dead time vs batt. voltage, IFR, etc..). I'd hope Cobb would release those controls should an injector upgrade become possible.

[Downmented]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny The new skyactiv motors use di that is rated at 3000psi, fords new na 2.0 gdi motor is also direct injected. Both fomoco parts, we need to get our hands on a set of these; Pablo!!!! I will let you know, I first want to see if we can get a hold of a new skyactiv injector. Unless you don't care I have it for a while. You can PM me if you'd like to send it to me

The injectors from the skyactive do not outflow our current injectors nor will they work for us even if they did.

Originally Posted by Lex I believe everyone standardized and went with Bosch in the later motors. The early adopters - N54s had piezo injectors that could flow enough for 800+whp and we had these oddball ones that no one else really used.

I know that Protuning Freaks has tuned a N45 335 to 735whp on the stock injectors, and i believe we still have room to grow.

Originally Posted by chuckms6 I would like to know how close late model ecoboost heads are to fitting on the mzr.... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727

There has already been a DISI modified to accept a head from the regular MZ3 and it made over 1300hp and ran 7s in the 1/4mile. He also uses 12 injectors Look up, Dee Karagiannis

To my understanding the issue with doing head swaps, or frankenstein builds, is for us, the heads we would want to use have different passages for the oil/coolant.

[h.h.sk1nny]

I emailed apr last night about interest in making injectors for us. He said they have not interest, as they don't make injectors and are Porsche, audi, and vw exclusive. He did say that on their stock direct injectors, they just upgrade the fuel pump and can make 650whp!!! We got hosed!!!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny I emailed apr last night about interest in making injectors for us. He said they have not interest, as they don't make injectors and are Porsche, audi, and vw exclusive. He did say that on their stock direct injectors, they just upgrade the fuel pump and can make 650whp!!! We got hosed!!!

I still feel we need to look into more along what the cobalts do that I mentioned earlier ^^ cams with a larger fuel pump lobe. Now im no expert on all the logistics behind it, and quite frankly, drastically increasing the fuel pump pressure seems like a bad idea but ... hell it seems to work for them.

ZZPerformance - LNF Intake Camshaft With Upgraded Fuel Pump Lobe #
Little to no information in that link other than "20% more fuel flow" but if anyone else is interested in taking a further look.

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I still feel we need to look into more along what the cobalts do that I mentioned earlier ^^ cams with a larger fuel pump lobe. Now im no expert on all the logistics behind it, and quite frankly, drastically increasing the fuel pump pressure seems like a bad idea but ... hell it seems to work for them. ZZPerformance - LNF Intake Camshaft With Upgraded Fuel Pump Lobe # Little to no information in that link other than "20% more fuel flow" but if anyone else is interested in taking a further look.

I may send an email there way after work, seeing if they have any interest for making a cam for us

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny The new skyactiv motors use di that is rated at 3000psi, fords new na 2.0 gdi motor is also direct injected. Both fomoco parts, we need to get our hands on a set of these; Pablo!!!! I will let you know, I first want to see if we can get a hold of a new skyactiv injector. Unless you don't care I have it for a while. You can PM me if you'd like to send it to me

Those are multi port and wont work.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny I may send an email there way after work, seeing if they have any interest for making a cam for us

May as well, every other car they make parts for is discontinued anyways haha.

[dan7225]

the injector seals on that page look interesting, and cheap.

maybe something like that could work for our platform

[basspunk1001]

How closely related is the 2.3 EB going in the new mustang to our engine? Aftermarket always seems to be quick for them, maybe some stuff will swap over easier than expected.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by basspunk1001 How closely related is the 2.3 EB going in the new mustang to our engine? Aftermarket always seems to be quick for them, maybe some stuff will swap over easier than expected.

Well, the head was re-designed i know that much... The fuel system has been swapped for a Bosch system with much higher pressure. I also know Ford has changed the rod configuration and pistons. The ECU logic is completely different as well.

Oh and the removal of MAF too.

[Ziggo]

It always comes down to price.

PI manifold, four PI injectors and a controller can easily double fueling capacity easily for ~$1600 dollars and not impact idle quality or require any tuning resources not currently on the market and is available today, or will be very shortly. Complete TBI injection kits are available today for $1000 and adds 50% more fuel.

Upgraded DI injectors will also require a higher capacity HPFP which is not currently available, a higher capacity ITFP, tuning resources we don't have, and will need to stay close to that $1600 mark for the entire kit and at least double the fueling or nobody will bite. So $150 for the ITFP, and at least $500 for the HPFP leaves you with $950 for 4 drop in injectors.

Zigatapatalkreplacea

[Fatguy729]

There is a thread around here discussing all this already... I'm on my phone, but I think @06Speed6; started it.

[flapjack]

But why tho

[Fstrnyou]

Your post is exactly what EVERYONE is thinking...about your post.