Stock MS3 genPu tune results: 33whp / 50wtq increase. No bolt-ons.

[BAT-man]

First off some quick notes: I have been tuning a stock MS3 platform for about 6 months now, as I believe that fairly significant gains can be had without any modifications beyond the safety net of an HPFP upgrade. I keep seeing folks throwing parts on their car before even buying a COBB AP or any tuning platform, and it just seems like a waste of money and a non-scientific approach to making power.


So, here is the premise: We have a ‘12 genPu, bone stock, 190 psi compression across all 4 cylinders, .028 gap on stock heat range NGK plugs, 20K miles on the engine (stock engine from Mazda), no aftermarket parts on it save for the HPFP, 93 Octane (possibly winter blend already). Having previous non-DISI tuning experience and having tuned this platform with various mods (3”intake, full catless and full catted DPs, and an FMIC) this particular tune took 22 very incremental maps to get to where I believe it is nearly final. The only issues I can see are a) very minor (< 1) transition KR around 2,500 rpm, and b) the 1.31KR under WOT described below.


The following dyno runs were made, with an approx. 60 deg F ambient temp on a DynoJet. I have AP logs of dynos 2) and 3) but not 1), as the COBB AP was not married to the car during the first run:


1) (Blue) - Bone stock PU, HPFP upgrade, no COBB AP installed. Rounded 217 whp / 239 wtq. Video: https://youtu.be/p1D8Ag8RBn0 Ignore the weird plateau table thing in the AFR section, the dyno software had some glitch. The real AFR line for this is the bottom blue line.
2) (Red) - Bone stock PU, HPFP upgrade, my tune, version B.1.7.5 (I have a method for labeling each consecutive map). Rounded 257 whp / 294 wtq. Video: https://youtu.be/K4npPz-xfU4
At the end of the pull you can see the black smoke caused by a fuel-cut created KR which leads to a fuel dump by the ECU, a phenomena discussed here: Gen 2 Cobb ATR discussion
Main tune points: Target AFR: 11.3, Target boost: 17psi tapering off to 15 (more like 14 on the dyno), and fairly conservative timing (12.5 deg max logged).
3) (Green) - Bone stock PU, HPFP upgrade, COBB OTS Stage 0. This was dynoed to show my long-standing suspicion that the stock Mazda map is NOT exactly what COBB tells is Stage 0 is, and the difference is obvious - 16whp / 10wtq increase in Stage 0 vs. the stock Mazda tune. I don’t know what is different about the Stage0 vs. the Mazda tune, but aside from very slightly colder intake temps, there were no environmental differences. A few degrees should not make that huge of a difference, hence it’s COBBs tune. Rounded 232 whp / 249 wtq. Video: phone wasn’t cooperating/rebooted. Identical to run 1).


Dyno result notes: I believe run 1) was slightly under performing because the car sat on the dyno for a bit, heat soaking while we were getting ready. Since I don’t believe the COBB Stage 0 tune to be THAT far off from Mazdas’ stock tune, the real stock numbers are probably half way between the two, so around 224 whp / 244 wtq, which puts the car around a fairly average 13% drivetrain loss relative to the official stock 260hp/280tq crank figures. So the real tune gains are ~33whp / 50wtq, if we’re being conservative, or 40 whp / 55wtq if we go right by the difference between 1) and 2). Regardless, I have yet to see anyone post a bone stock tune with dyno results anywhere near those gains. Typically these are achieved with an intake/TIP or both, a DP and E blend. My philosophy is that this doesn’t need to be the case. I dislike the extra noise when it is not directly related to performance (and even then it’s a trade off for a daily). Having all stock parts and making this kind of power on 93 is how I believe this car should have been sold by Mazda. I’m sure there are some reliability concerns, but none that overshadow those present with a modded (with parts) platform. As an aside: Virtual Dyno representation of the logs for pulls 2) and 3) is showing power numbers about 40% higher than noted. Sort of useless. (http://oi64.tinypic.com/20aas5g.jpg)


Tune notes: I tried to be as conservative as I could, most of the timing is 1-1.5 degrees under any KR values of .5 or above that I’ve encountered during my logs. I’ve been very incremental about increasing timing, so I never really hit KR over 1 (except for the 1.31 on the dyno). The 1.31KR seen in the log is responsible for the power dip around 5k rpm. This wasn’t present during my street logs, as the loads hit on the dyno were lower than on the street and those cells will need to have 1-1.5 deg of timing taken out, just to be safe. I only got to do 3 pulls, so I didn’t have the opportunity to log another run with my tune to see if it was a fluke.


Overall notes: I hope this map and dyno help the community, as I’ve gotten help from the multiple guides (and put one together myself in the FAQ), threads, and other people’s expertise to get to this point. My map is free for anyone to copy as they wish, I just ask that you don’t do it for commercial purposes - I’m posting it up here so that folks can have a much better base for their tunes than what COBB provides us with, and potentially decide that this is more than plenty for a reliable daily. Some slight alterations may be necessary as no one car is exactly the same, but this gets you 95% there. I did learn a crap load while working on this tune, so keep that in mind before you simply copy/paste and never touch it again. One of my biggest goals with the maps was to create a very smooth map, which I’ve succeeded at if you look at the power curve compared to the stock and Stage 0 maps. I’ve applied this to most tables, making them as smooth and non-peaky as possible, while maintaining values needed to run the mpg/power figures I was looking for.
I may stop here (after fixing the transition/tip-in KR and the 1.31 KR spot), and perhaps wait ‘til the stock turbo craps out and throw the hybrid K04 on there down the road, which would warrant a re-tune. The car drive great and smooth, slightly touchy after you pass the 1.0 load threshold, but that is a preference that can be tuned out, if so inclined.

The dyno sheet, my logs and my map are attached. Comments and questions are welcome.


I’d like to thank everyone who has been putting up with my bugging them about random stuff over the past few years and their posts/threads which I’ve perused over and over, especially @Enki; @ms3blackmica; @phate; @rfinkle2; @Lex; @Rokusek; @Captain KR; @silvapain; @timjs; @JeffroMS3; @dereeek; @mikesms3; @SofaKingAwesome; whoever banned/unbanned me from shout at any given point, and the entire CT NATOR community for being awesome.


Bonus: Corner weighed stock genPu MS3, full tank of gas, TRMotorsports C3 17x9 wheels, Hankook V12 255/40-17 tires, and a small 8” ZoomBox-cased sub in the driver side trunk cavity + small 1ch amp in place of stock spare-mounted sub (both weigh 25lbs at best):
Without driver (3311 lbs): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t...4_175351-1.jpg
With 194lbs fat ass driver (3505 lbs): https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f...024_175836.jpg

DISCLAIMER for map downloads and usage: Downloading and using these maps are AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither MSF nor I will be held accountable if anything were to happen to your car after using/mimicking/copying/installing one of these maps.

Update: Uploaded map vB.1.7.9 - Minor tweaks to Closed Loop, Fuel and ignition tables, made sure CL is entered early and the newly available Closed Loop Max Load Limit tables are the same as the Closed Loop Max Load tables. Finally fixed the overly touchy throttle between load 1 and 1.5, now the acceleration is much smoother and linear. SWAS disabled in 1st/2nd gears, using the new COBB update.
This is the final stock map. All future maps will be supporting mods. Having driven on it, transition, part throttle, and WOT KR are all 0.5 or less, which I believe is the true mark of a proper tune.

Attached Files

	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.5 - STAGE 0 - DYNO WOT.csv (24.4 KB, 19 views)
	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.5 - STAGE 0 - DYNO WOT.xlsx (40.7 KB, 12 views)
	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.5 - BAT-TUNE - DYNO WOT.csv (16.1 KB, 25 views)
	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.5 - BAT-TUNE - DYNO WOT.xlsx (29.5 KB, 28 views)
	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.5.ptm (16.8 KB, 33 views)
	Stage1 93 v234 - B.1.7.9.ptm (18.8 KB, 52 views)

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smoogs12, Rokusek, Scaytale and 1 others like this.

__________________
I drive fast, I turn fast, I do everything fast. I even breakfast. I tend to confuse people with my sudden changes of heart. Sometimes I even confuse myself, which tends to cause problems.

"... if u can't find' em - grind 'em"
- old Chinese proverb


http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/

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Last edited by BAT-man; 12-28-2015 at 08:13 AM. Reason: Updated map B.1.7.9

[MSP611]

pretty cool comparison

[Zachms3]

This is exactly the info I wanted and thanks for making the maps available.
I knew there were gains to be had from just a tune.
PS I didn't think it would be this much good job man.

[Pu Manchu]

now start all over and do e85.

[aviator79]

Its CT. One E85 station an hour away in Groton. Its not an option for most....well for the 7 of us left its too far.

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by aviator79 Its CT. One E85 station an hour away in Groton. Its not an option for most....well for the 7 of us left its too far.

Waterford =P

[Rokusek]

Good work man. I'm just glad you have stopped asking a million questions in a matter of minutes and don't give me enough time to answer the first one before I have to start thinking about the 7th one lol.

Either way, This is awesome!

-PJ

[BAT-man]

Oh, I'm not done w/questions. This is just the beginning of a beautiful friendship

[Fusion_MS3]

Excellent Work. Thank you for posting this!

If you don't mind me asking what brand HPFP was on the vehicle?

[BAT-man]

Autotech internals.

[Cheapspeed]

Wasn't this the E85 HPFP?

High Pressure Fuel Pump

[BAT-man]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Wasn't this the E85 HPFP? High Pressure Fuel Pump

The car in the dyno results post had autotech internals. I don't know what you are referring to.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by BAT-man The car in the dyno results post had autotech internals. I don't know what you are referring to.

A hpfp that will run e85 with no issues.

Sent from my SM-G360T using tapatalkreplace

[MSP611]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed A hpfp that will run e85 with no issues. Sent from my SM-G360T using tapatalkreplace

breh follow the right threads and u might know there is a fix for running 100% e85.. come on now!!!

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by MSP611 breh follow the right threads and u might know there is a fix for running 100% e85.. come on now!!!

The fuck you talking about.

[MSP611]

this shit nigga!!! @Cheapspeed;

E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications

IE HPFP Internals For E85

read away!!!

[BAT-man]

Hmm... a bit off topic @Cheapspeed;, this is a 93-only tune, results, and thread. Nowhere in my thread did I indicate that e85 was being used or that the car was using the HPFP upgrade you mentioned.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by MSP611 this shit nigga!!! @Cheapspeed; E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications IE HPFP Internals For E85 read away!!!

I followed those developments in real time. That's where I got the link for the IE internals. I don't understand the confusion. Install those internals and tune for e85 on stock hardparts like someone else in this thread mentioned. Autotechs can't handle E85.

Sent from my SM-G360T using tapatalkreplace

[BAT-man]

This is why @Pu Manchu; is not allowed to post. You see what u did to the goddamn thread...

[MSP611]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed I followed those developments in real time. That's where I got the link for the IE internals. I don't understand the confusion. Install those internals and tune for e85 on stock hardparts like someone else in this thread mentioned. Autotechs can't handle E85. Sent from my SM-G360T using tapatalkreplace

well u obviously didnt read the whole thread... there is no hardware fix for E85 those internals ended up doing the same thing... the only thing tht works is soakin ur internals in SL-1 and checking ur pump every so often. tht solved the sticky/black death not the new internals sorry to burst ur bubble. If u re-read ull see tht

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by MSP611 well u obviously didnt read the whole thread... there is no hardware fix for E85 those internals ended up doing the same thing... the only thing tht works is soakin ur internals in SL-1 and checking ur pump every so often. tht solved the sticky/black death not the new internals sorry to burst ur bubble. If u re-read ull see tht

I'm not about to re-read 600 posts from the redline thread. I didn't see anything out of the IE thread that said it didn't work. @littleloogy; @davychronic; is it true that the IE internals didn't fix black death? I lost interest in it since our stock injectors wouldn't be able to keep up anyway.

[btstarcher]

More importantly, why the fuck would a completely stock MS3 want to run pure e85? Makes no sense.

[davychronic]

@littleloogy; has gone 1000s of miles on full corn with no issues so yes IE internals are the shit. I still have mine new in the package since im running out of full with my turbo on e30 so no need for them yet.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by btstarcher More importantly, why the fuck would a completely stock MS3 want to run pure e85? Makes no sense.

Because MSF.

[texasboy21]

Originally Posted by btstarcher More importantly, why the fuck would a completely stock MS3 want to run pure e85? Makes no sense.

The same reason someone would run 93 octane vs 91 octane on a completely stock MS3...

[robbspeed]

Originally Posted by texasboy21 The same reason someone would run 93 octane vs 91 octane on a completely stock MS3...

I don't think you could get anywhere close to exploiting e85's potential with a completely stock ms3.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by robbspeed I don't think you could get anywhere close to exploiting e85's potential with a completely stock ms3.

We're talking simply the HPFP like the OP did. Just to see, why the hell not?

[robbspeed]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed We're talking simply the HPFP like the OP did. Just to see, why the hell not?

Btstarcher said why would you run e85 on a completely stock car and the other dude said same reason someone would choose 93 vs 91. 93 and 91 are more comparable with 93 having a bit of an edge. But with how much extra boost you can safely run on straight e85 you would need a bunch of flow mods. I'm assuming that's what btstarcher meant when he said that.

[btstarcher]

Because there's absolutely no advantage to running straight e85 with the stock turbo. You can achieve MBT with an e33 mix.

[speedfreak44]

I would bet a completely stock ms3 on full e85 would gain quite a bit of power. E85 would offset the poor capability of the stock tmic to cool and it would also allow max timing which is where a lot of the ms3 power comes from

[Pu Manchu]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 I would bet a completely stock ms3 on full e85 would gain quite a bit of power. E85 would offset the poor capability of the stock tmic to cool and it would also allow max timing which is where a lot of the ms3 power comes from

would you bet your own labor to turn your car back to stock? i bet your tuner would donate the tune if you were on board.

[speedfreak44]

I would bet he wouldn't because it is self tuned lol. It is also a pain in the ass for me to get e85 I have to drive over an hour with large fuel tanks to store it in my shed so I gave up on it a while back

[btstarcher]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 I would bet a completely stock ms3 on full e85 would gain quite a bit of power. E85 would offset the poor capability of the stock tmic to cool and it would also allow max timing which is where a lot of the ms3 power comes from

You would gain literally no timing advantage by using e85 vs using e33. That's why I pointed out that MBT can be achieved with the 33% mix.

[speedfreak44]

Originally Posted by btstarcher You would gain literally no timing advantage by using e85 vs using e33. That's why I pointed out that MBT can be achieved with the 33% mix.

Slow down sir, I posted my post prior to yours being posted so that would be the reason I "thanked" what you said. Why does everyone have to get their panties bunched up so quickly around here. I was not disputing what you said I was simply stating e85 would definitely gain power

Your post was 3 mins before mine and I did not refresh my screen...

[btstarcher]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 Slow down sir, I posted my post prior to yours being posted so that would be the reason I "thanked" what you said. Why does everyone have to get their panties bunched up so quickly around here. I was not disputing what you said I was simply stating e85 would definitely gain power Your post was 3 mins before mine and I did not refresh my screen...

LOL I see that now. I just don't like it when misinformation is spread. I think you were saying pretty much what I had just said. Sorry about that.

I'm considering doing this same thing with either e50 or e33 in the not so distant future, will post my results.

[speedfreak44]

Hands down the best way to quick power for us on k04 is 3" full intake, fuel pump internals, accessport, e85, tune. These cars make great power on the cheap! I <3 my ms3

Used 3" intake = 150-200
Internals = 200-350
Apv2 = 250-300
Tune = priceless

[btstarcher]

Plus test pipe. Maybe TMIC. I want to try tuning first and after each modification to see how much each piece opens it up. I'll probably tune for 93 octane and the e50 (easier to mix). Need to see if any tuners would be willing to work with me; the last time I attempted to tune for e50 I blew my shit up LOL

[speedfreak44]

Yes those would be great additions but I was stating best bang for the buck that should land you at 300whp in a 3200lb car

The tune is not too terrible to do especially if you already have a dialed in 93 to start with

[Don]

i was going to try to map you posted but when i go to transfer the map to my AP3 it comes up with a notice that says "this map is locked to a V2 serial number. to use V2 locked maps, you contact technical support to upgrade your V3 accessport. are you sure you want to copy this file to the accessport?"

is it still all right to use that map?

[btstarcher]

Originally Posted by Don i was going to try to map you posted but when i go to transfer the map to my AP3 it comes up with a notice that says "this map is locked to a V2 serial number. to use V2 locked maps, you contact technical support to upgrade your V3 accessport. are you sure you want to copy this file to the accessport?" is it still all right to use that map?

You have to open the map in ATR and save it, then transfer to your AP.