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 Old 07-27-2015, 05:48 PM   #1
 
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Default help....melted cable off of battery

wife's DD

so i have the trackmasters ecu relocation kit, have had it on there for prob yr.

Mazdaspeed 3 07'-13' ECU Relocation Bracket - Trackmasters

well today she smelt something burning from the drivers side engine comparment.

she pulled and didn't see anything, but drove home w/ no A/C in 100+ deg.

well the "patch" cord that TM suppplies to lengthen this cable has melted down.



what does it go to?
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 Old 07-27-2015, 06:04 PM   #2
 
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 Old 07-27-2015, 06:22 PM   #3
 
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Looks like a bad install to me. what was electrical taped and why. It's a cable for a fuse holder or what ever it says in the install instructions.
Looks like at some point to many amps, resistance or something cooked the casing.
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 Old 07-27-2015, 07:10 PM   #4
 
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Based on my experience with the extension piece (looks similar to what happened to mine), the nut and bolt that secures the extension most likely came a little lose, arced and caught fire. Fortunately for me I caught it in time so it only burned the extension and I was able to remove the relocation and just got back to stock set-up. Not sure if you can do the same.

However, not sure if you saw this thread or not but see post 39 in the thread linked.
Click here and go to post 39
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 Old 07-27-2015, 07:42 PM   #5
 
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Hmm, this is interesting to see. A few weeks back, shortly after we installed the trackmasters bracket on my brothers speed 3, he was driving home when his car started bucking really bad out of the blue. He noticed his battery voltage had was dropping quickly and the car drove terrible. After doing some snooping, we discovered that the trackmasters fuse holder had literally melted through and was shorting to ground on the frame, which in turn fried the alternator. I helped him with the install, I am a certified electronics installer and I have been doing electrical installs for over a decade, so I dont think it was installer error. Ive installed a lot of aftermarket stereo systems, and the wire that was sent seemed really cheap to me, it got so hot that it literally crumbled into pieces when I pulled it out of the car.

Anyhow, this seems to be a recurring theme with these kits... @Raider; have you seen anything else like this pop up?







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 Old 07-27-2015, 07:47 PM   #6
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I have! Post above you. They made a new kit. Call them.
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 Old 07-27-2015, 07:49 PM   #7
 
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well, I was reading through that before I posted. He got the new kit with the 4 gauge wire... it wasnt 8 gauge.
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 Old 07-27-2015, 07:53 PM   #8
 
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This shit always makes me so paranoid

I need to start carrying some fire extinguishers in the car. If something was ever to catch fire, their would be no hope of saving the car. Especially with all the track days I do, stuff just gets so hot.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 03:51 AM   #9
 
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thanks for the link @WAMBUSHHHH!

i called them yest. but they are out of the office this whole week

addikted, mine didn't come w/ a fuse, just a "patch" cord

i went to a car stereo store and they made me another piece

going w/ a bigger wire is not nec. the answer, i'd rather have this cord fail then the OE wiring.

but why is it happening is the bigger question.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:28 AM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
wife's DD

so i have the trackmasters ecu relocation kit, have had it on there for prob yr.

Mazdaspeed 3 07'-13' ECU Relocation Bracket - Trackmasters

well today she smelt something burning from the drivers side engine comparment.

she pulled and didn't see anything, but drove home w/ no A/C in 100+ deg.

well the "patch" cord that TM suppplies to lengthen this cable has melted down.



what does it go to?
I dont know much about this kit but how is the "patch" cord connected to the existing wire?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:29 AM   #11
 
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On the gen 1 kit they provide an aftermarket fuse holder like in my pictures above

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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:34 AM   #12
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@JgamB;, you know this product well. What are we seeing here? Is this the new one?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:36 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by jthough1 View Post
I dont know much about this kit but how is the "patch" cord connected to the existing wire?
Originally Posted by Raider View Post
@JgamB;, you know this product well. What are we seeing here? Is this the new one?

on the new kits, they provide an in-line fuse and cord.

but I bought an early kit, and it basically only has a mechanical connection, basically a bolt and nut.

the thing is, OE wiring = 8 ga, trackmasters NOW = 4 ga, the OE wiring is more apt to burn up now , if the fuse is rated for the 4 gu. and that's bad, you'd rather have the fuse pop or the patch cord burn up vs the OE harness
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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:41 AM   #14
 
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it is a nice kit, I am looking to get one myself soon when I do a battery relocate. I would just like to figure out if it is causing these issues when you modify that connection with the patch wire.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 06:59 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
on the new kits, they provide an in-line fuse and cord.

but I bought an early kit, and it basically only has a mechanical connection, basically a bolt and nut.

the thing is, OE wiring = 8 ga, trackmasters NOW = 4 ga, the OE wiring is more apt to burn up now , if the fuse is rated for the 4 gu. and that's bad, you'd rather have the fuse pop or the patch cord burn up vs the OE harness
Agreed on the gauge mismatch and fuse...that would unsettle me.

Is the patch cable copper or aluminum? And whats is the OE wiring?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:00 AM   #16
 
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The patch cable is aluminum, oem is copper, based on some quick Google searches, I'm not sure that 4 gauge aluminum cable can support the current requirements of this application.

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:03 AM   #17
 
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ok, I work in the industrial electrical world

I just checked and the allowable ampacity of an 8 ga wire is 70amps, 4 ga is 125amps

if they are putting a 4 ga wire and a 125 amp fuse, then you are risking your OE wiring harness burning up, as the fuse won't break till well over the threshold of the 8ga wire

the ampacity for Alu wire is less, 8ga = 55amps and 4 ga = 100amps
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:11 AM   #18
 
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Racer, based on what I see, for aluminum at approx 140 Fahrenheit, it's closer to 55 amps? What am I missing?

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:14 AM   #19
 
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I added to my post, you're right alu is only rated at 55amps

though I'm sure everything is copper, both OE and TM's patch cord.

I think the problem is the proper connections are hard to make on a 8gu wire and also keeping that mechanical linkage insulated

we had a vendor come in last week and show us some crimping device that was the size of a portable drill that could exert 6 tons of crimping pressure, lol I need one of those.

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:15 AM   #20
 
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The patch cord that comes with the kit is 4 awg aluminum

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:19 AM   #21
 
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ok the new kit? so then the fuse should be set 55amp fuse?

the old kit w/ 8ga was copper.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:19 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Addikted To Boost View Post
The patch cable is aluminum, oem is copper, based on some quick Google searches, I'm not sure that 4 gauge aluminum cable can support the current requirements of this application.
This is where i was headed. Aluminum doesnt handle heat nearly as well as copper. Thermal conductivity of alum is half that of copper and the melting pt of alum is much lower. But it is cheaper to produce...

Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
ok, I work in the industrial electrical world

I just checked and the allowable ampacity of an 8 ga wire is 50amps, 4 ga is 125amps

if they are putting a 4 ga wire and a 125 amp fuse, then you are risking your OE wiring harness burning up, as the fuse won't break till well over the threshold of the 8ga wire
I agree with you...the weak link right now is the connection between the aluminum and copper wire. We know that for whatever reason you have enough amp draw to cause the alum wire to heat up and melt. Switching to a higher gauge cable allows more amps to flow but that just means even more heat. It might be worth it to try an 8 gauge copper cable and see if that fails as well. At the least put a fuse in to match the 8 gauge Copper cable to protect that...and see if the fuse fails?

Anyone else have this issue? Im curious if other ppl's cables are melting too.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:21 AM   #23
 
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What I ended up doing on my brothers was making a new patch using high quality 4 gauge copper, and a new fuse holder.

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:23 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Addikted To Boost View Post
What I ended up doing on my brothers was making a new patch using high quality 4 gauge copper, and a new fuse holder.

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This ^^^
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:24 AM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Addikted To Boost View Post
What I ended up doing on my brothers was making a new patch using high quality 4 gauge copper, and a new fuse holder.

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but what size fuse?

Originally Posted by jthough1 View Post
This is where i was headed. Aluminum doesnt handle heat nearly as well as copper. Thermal conductivity of alum is half that of copper and the melting pt of alum is much lower. But it is cheaper to produce...



I agree with you...the weak link right now is the connection between the aluminum and copper wire. We know that for whatever reason you have enough amp draw to cause the alum wire to heat up and melt. Switching to a higher gauge cable allows more amps to flow but that just means even more heat. It might be worth it to try an 8 gauge copper cable and see if that fails as well. At the least put a fuse in to match the 8 gauge Copper cable to protect that...and see if the fuse fails?

Anyone else have this issue? Im curious if other ppl's cables are melting too.
it would be better to use copper and copper so the heating a cooling properties are similar.

the old original wire was 8ga copper wiring , the new is 4ga alu wiring w/ a fuse (size = ?)

really an 8 ga copper patch w/ a 70a fuse would ideally be what you need and cut off the OE ring connector and bolt it to the inline fuse
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:28 AM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
but what size fuse?
Thats hard to say without knowing the true amp draw...do you have access to an amp meter? Although looking at the pic that looks like a tight space to fit one in.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:30 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Raider View Post
@JgamB;, you know this product well. What are we seeing here? Is this the new one?
So the OP looks to be in the same position I was. Admittedly, I have not looked at the new design nor had it on my car since I went a different route after mine caught fire. But I can with almost 100% certainty say that the connection at the nut and bolt came lose, arced and physics took over with the heat wrap/electrical tape over the lose arcing connection.

The pictures provided by @Addikted To Boost; seem to be the revised extension so I'm not sure what's going on there. Like I said, its not something I had on my car. I can say however that with the new extension I haven't heard/seen anyone with an issue like the original extension I had/OP had.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:33 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by jthough1 View Post
Thats hard to say without knowing the true amp draw...do you have access to an amp meter? Although looking at the pic that looks like a tight space to fit one in.
really you should only go as high as the wire is rated for (70a) you want the fuse to pop before the wire melts.

Originally Posted by WAMBUSHHHH! View Post
So the OP looks to be in the same position I was. Admittedly, I have not looked at the new design nor had it on my car since I went a different route after mine caught fire. But I can with almost 100% certainty say that the connection at the nut and bolt came lose, arced and physics took over with the heat wrap/electrical tape over the lose arcing connection.

The pictures provided by @Addikted To Boost; seem to be the revised extension so I'm not sure what's going on there. Like I said, its not something I had on my car. I can say however that with the new extension I haven't heard/seen anyone with an issue like the original extension I had/OP had.
to be fair, mine's been on the car for a yr, so you don't notice it immediately, or even a few months. my nuts were tight, it think it has to do more w/ insulating it.

do you know what size fuse they're putting in the new cord? and is it alu cabling?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:34 AM   #29
 
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I dont recall exactly where the line that you cut is going... it is the one with the "block" looking thing on it (i believe that is called a fusible link). On the gen one you are instructed to cut it off and attach your fuse there. I think it might be the feed from the alternator to the battery. I only make that guess since on my brothers car when the cable and fuse holder melted and messed everything up, it fried his alternator's voltage regulator at the same time. I could be wrong though.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:37 AM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
really you should only go as high as the wire is rated for (70a) you want the fuse to pop before the wire melts.
You are correct...I was assuming there is no fault and that the amp load is behaving as designed for the 8 ga copper cable since its not burning up and you havent fried anything yet :fingerscrossed:

To be safe size the fuse slightly below the allowable amps for an 8 ga insulated copper cable.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:43 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by RACER_X View Post
to be fair, mine's been on the car for a yr, so you don't notice it immediately, or even a few months. my nuts were tight, it think it has to do more w/ insulating it.

do you know what size fuse they're putting in the new cord? and is it alu cabling?
True true, I guess I should have been a little more clear that I'm 100% confident that was what happened to mine and consequently what looks to have happened to yours. With that said, are you running anything that would take an excess draw? like a new amp or something along those lines?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:47 AM   #32
 
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nope, other then a radar detector
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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:47 AM   #33
 
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If the line that we have to cut is in fact coming from the alternator, I think that a 125 amp fuse is appropriate. Is that wrong?

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 Old 07-28-2015, 07:59 AM   #34
 
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I responded in the other thread as well - But yes, Arthur is on vacation for the week.

I've run my car in both configurations (initial wiring w/ ring terminals and fusible link) for a long time without a problem, but there's no denying something is amiss. I do run several additional draws on my electrical system as well - 1600w amp, laser jammers, meth pump, cameras, etc.

I've felt my wiring after shutting down the car (with these incidents as incentive) and it was no warmer than the rest of the surrounding engine bay. It appears to be simple enough to splice the wires, but apparently it has to be making optimal contact or it gets hot enough to melt.

I would suggest a 6 gauge butt splice, crush the hell out of both ends, wrap it well and make sure it's zip tied where it won't rub anything. (pretty sure the replacement wires were 6ga).
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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:08 AM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Addikted To Boost View Post
If the line that we have to cut is in fact coming from the alternator, I think that a 125 amp fuse is appropriate. Is that wrong?

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you want to put a breaker appropriate for the wire. if anything the breaker is undersized from the wire even, better for the breaker to POP vs wiring melt.

so if you put a 125amp breaker on an 8ga wire, that's not good. as 8ga is only rated for 70amps.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:10 AM   #36
 
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Ok so ideally just extending it with an 8 gauge copper patch wire would be best then, with a 75 amp inline fuse. That way it stays the same wire size the whole way

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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:13 AM   #37
 
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yes, that would be fine

the connection points are critical, so if you have a splice inline that's a potential weak point. so it's best if you could 1 continuous piece of cable

does that line go straight to the alternator?
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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:13 AM   #38
 
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I'm really not sure, I'm gonna double check later

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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:16 AM   #39
 
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The fuse isn't even blowing. It seems that the wire is heating up from contact resistance. Extending the wire with a fuse block and crimp ring terminal creates additional multiple points of contact resistance the OE wire didn't have.

I say forget the fuse block. Crimp with a copper butt connector, add solder, and heat shrink. Solder is really a must. The thing is that this method may not be installer friendly to the average user but it's the proper way to extend a battery connection.
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 Old 07-28-2015, 08:21 AM   #40
 
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Easiest/cheapest way to relocate the ECU, move to on top of the fuse box, secure with screws, done. No extensions of any kind needed.
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