Dano's Boost Tuning 101 + Cool Stuff

[Boosted Beluga]

There is no side effects with 2gal of the corn juice. Put the e85 in before you fill up and I would say about 30-50 miles then do a maf cal.

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08 Mazdaspeed 3

Fucking FREEK TUNED and shit

[Nataphen]

You shouldn't even need a MAF cal with 2 gallons. I didn't.

[wolly6973]

FWIW - I have been running 3 gallons for a long time, and didn't need to adjust my MAF until they switched to E70, and there was just a tiny spot around 4.9v that needed adjusted.

[Dano]

depending on how accurate your petrol MAF cal is you shouldn't need to change it for 2-2.5 gallons.

you will want to add some timing to get the full benefit though.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 FWIW - I have been running 3 gallons for a long time, and didn't need to adjust my MAF until they switched to E70, and there was just a tiny spot around 4.9v that needed adjusted.

lol 4.9v!?!?!

just tickling the tip of the curve huh?

[MattJackson86]

So closest E85 to me is 25 miles away. Seems E85 is in short supply around here

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes lol 4.9v!?!?! just tickling the tip of the curve huh?

lol, typo

should be 4.3

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 So closest E85 to me is 25 miles away. Seems E85 is in short supply around here

I drive 18 miles for mine. Just buy a bunch of 5 gallon gas cans and a single 2 gallon can so you can measure correctly. I do it this way and have about 2 months worth of E85 before I have to go back, works great so far.

[Boosted Beluga]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 So closest E85 to me is 25 miles away. Seems E85 is in short supply around here

Did you check out propelfuels.com?

[Ziggo]

I am about 20 miles from the corn pump as well and I couldn't be happier, it's worth the drive.

I use a bathroom scale to measure the fuel. 20lbs of the juice and 9 gal of 93. I couldn't find any 3 gallon containers.


Zigatapatalkreplacea

[Boost_creep]

I have one at the end of my road. I could freakin throw a stone there.

Why am I not using it??

[Dano]

b/c your boost control is all fucked up...that's why....you need a good tuner....I know of a couple...DJ, Lex, Socks....any one of them could help you out.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano b/c your boost control is all fucked up...that's why....you need a good tuner....I know of a couple...DJ, Lex, Socks....any one of them could help you out.

I know of a great tuner named Dano, but he is just having a bit of trouble with the comp tables on some cars (as we all are).

[Boost_creep]

Originally Posted by Dano b/c your boost control is all fucked up...that's why....you need a good tuner....I know of a couple...DJ, Lex, Socks....any one of them could help you out.

Lmao. That's some funny shit.
Coughloadtunecough

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I know of a great tuner named Dano, but he is just having a bit of trouble with the comp tables on some cars (as we all are).

my next suggestion is to pour 2 gals of E85 on the motor, strike a match and walk away. Should make a nice blue flame right?

Originally Posted by Boost_creep Lmao. That's some funny shit. Coughloadtunecough

all kidding aside I don't think load tuning will work either...I've sent your BCS test logs to David and we'll see what he thinks but to me it looks like your BCS is laggy at best and can't reach targets at worst.

for everyone else we completely neutered the comp tables to test if the BCS would just follow commanded values and to me it failed but I don't know how closely logged DC should match commanded.

Here were the commanded DC values from 2500:

40.00	45.00	40.00	45.00	45.00	50.00	60.00	65.00	70.00	70.00

to me the BCS starts to really have trouble reaching target in the 55%+ DC/5K RPM range which interestingly enough is where we get our boost drop on the regular maps.

logs attached.

edit: imma gonna cut a load map this weekend and have boost_creep give it a try.

[Boost_creep]

Wgdc like a stegosaurus is the new coolest thing.
You guys are all jealous.

Originally Posted by Dano for everyone else we completely neutered the comp tables to test if the BCS would just follow commanded values and to me it failed but I don't know how closely logged DC should match commanded. Here were the commanded DC values from 2500

Who's everyone else? Lol.

[Dano]

just guys reading the thread wondering WTF I am talking about.

[Meder]

I think my car is doing something similar to boost creeps. Boost is on target but strays off somewhere near 5k and the ecu does not seem to do anything to correct it.

Pure boost tune only BEC active.


I also have a lean condition during and sometimes after spool in rare cases that
can hold close to 5k rpms. I think a bit lean on spool is common on this car? I have no idea why it sometimes holds for the majority of the run and I am out of ideas on how to fix this. Most logs run about .2 or .3 high during initial spool but hit their target right after.

This log shows both. intake/tip/dp/fuelpump - sealevel and its 50 degrees outside. 18 psi boost target and 11.1 afr target.

[MattJackson86]

Im gonna go try and get some E85 shortly and test it out. If it sells me on it then I will work something out on how to store it.

Would 100octane race gas be comparable to E85 performance wise? Cost wise its WAY more I know.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Meder I think my car is doing something similar to boost creeps. Boost is on target but strays off somewhere near 5k and the ecu does not seem to do anything to correct it. Pure boost tune only BEC active. I also have a lean condition during and sometimes after spool in rare cases that can hold close to 5k rpms. I think a bit lean on spool is common on this car? I have no idea why it sometimes holds for the majority of the run and I am out of ideas on how to fix this. Most logs run about .2 or .3 high during initial spool but hit their target right after. This log shows both. intake/tip/dp/fuelpump - sealevel and its 50 degrees outside. 18 psi boost target and 11.1 afr target.

why are you targeting a PI car's AF target? Maybe your ECU is > you...lol

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Im gonna go try and get some E85 shortly and test it out. If it sells me on it then I will work something out on how to store it. Would 100octane race gas be comparable to E85 performance wise? Cost wise its WAY more I know.

E85 > all other fuels. 105 octane at the lowest and has a very high endothermic reaction in the cylinders that can't be matched.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Dano my next suggestion is to pour 2 gals of E85 on the motor, strike a match and walk away. Should make a nice blue flame right? all kidding aside I don't think load tuning will work either...I've sent your BCS test logs to David and we'll see what he thinks but to me it looks like your BCS is laggy at best and can't reach targets at worst. for everyone else we completely neutered the comp tables to test if the BCS would just follow commanded values and to me it failed but I don't know how closely logged DC should match commanded. Here were the commanded DC values from 2500: 40.00 45.00 40.00 45.00 45.00 50.00 60.00 65.00 70.00 70.00 to me the BCS starts to really have trouble reaching target in the 55%+ DC/5K RPM range which interestingly enough is where we get our boost drop on the regular maps. logs attached. edit: imma gonna cut a load map this weekend and have boost_creep give it a try.

So to update:

I haven't heard back from David so I cut a load based tune and sent it over to @Boost_creep and as I suspected, the same issue was there. Plus, his WGDC actually dropped into the single digits during the middle of a WOT run. This proves to me we have some underlying issue since the ECU is dropping DC like that.

We are gonna remove the AP and see what DC looks like on an OE tune via DH and go from there.

so the bottom line, his issues are not directly related to any boost targeting logic and his car just wants to be difficult

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano So to update: I haven't heard back from David so I cut a load based tune and sent it over to @Boost_creep and as I suspected, the same issue was there. Plus, his WGDC actually dropped into the single digits during the middle of a WOT run. This proves to me we have some underlying issue since the ECU is dropping DC like that. We are gonna remove the AP and see what DC looks like on an OE tune via DH and go from there. so the bottom line, his issues are not directly related to any boost targeting logic and his car just wants to be difficult

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is what I was referring to when I was seeing the wgdc values cut down so hard with the Grimmspeed.

Whether it be the ots comp values, the grimmspeed, or the combo of the 2, something is crushing the wgdc table down to nothing when load values are being approached (sometimes) or exceeded.

(in a way you'd expect a protective table to act vs. a compensation table)

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I hate to beat a dead horse, but this is what I was referring to when I was seeing the wgdc values cut down so hard with the Grimmspeed. Whether it be the ots comp values, the grimmspeed, or the combo of the 2, something is crushing the wgdc table down to nothing when load values are being approached (sometimes) or exceeded. (in a way you'd expect a protective table to act vs. a compensation table)

interesting but not sure this is the case here but I did exceed load target just prior to the DC drop but then DC is increased right before it is hacked IDK...running OE BCS and WGDC goes from 50 to 2 while load values are at 2.21 on a 2.30 target. This can be seen in the second tab between 3-3.5K.

TRL from 2.5K

2.00 2.30 2.30 2.25 2.15 2.10 2.00 1.75 1.55 1.50

logs attached.

BTW his WGDC sometimes shoots up to 99 while in vacuum/cruise as well. And lets not forget the "shark fin" effect which I have never seen before.

Edit: so you have seen DC cut this much when a target is exceeded?

[Boost_creep]

Originally Posted by Dano BTW his WGDC sometimes shoots up to 99 while in vacuum/cruise as well.

Ive been thinking about this. When I log, I usually pull over to the side, cause I have bad connection issues. So I start a log, then pull out onto the highway and usually try to get to 4th pretty quick. Lol. If you look at the OTS wgdc table at anything over 25% TP and under 2250 rpm's, I am targeting 100% wgdc. Could this just be my ecu hitting the target, but then a compensation table knocks it down?

[Dano]

I suppose that is possible however I just looked back thru some of your logs and see 90 and 75DC @ 16TPS which doesn't approach higher TPS in any surrounding cells so its isn't a resolution issue....but do see quite a bit of 99 at over 20TPS.

I forgot you had one of the APs that has trouble logging.

is yours a v2b? [dongless]

so lets chalk up the PT DC as BS and move on.

the drop from 50 to 2 DC at WOT is unexplainable to me and couple that with issues with a BT tune and Load tune right at about the same RPM/DC of 5K/50+

I'd like to hear back from finkle and anyone else that has seen this happen.

me your ECU

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano I suppose that is possible however I just looked back thru some of your logs and see 90 and 75DC @ 16TPS which doesn't approach higher TPS in any surrounding cells so its isn't a resolution issue....but do see quite a bit of 99 at over 20TPS. I forgot you had one of the APs that has trouble logging. is yours a v2b? [dongless] so lets chalk up the PT DC as BS and move on. the drop from 50 to 2 DC at WOT is unexplainable to me and couple that with issues with a BT tune and Load tune right at about the same RPM/DC of 5K/50+ I'd like to hear back from finkle and anyone else that has seen this happen.

I'm looking for the thread right now, and as soon as I find it, I'll hit you with a link.

[rfinkle2]

I think I was able to find 2 similar situations here:

1) speed6 not hitting boost targets
2) Boost Tune Woes

[Meder]

Afr was set low while I am working on my lean issue. I've seen 12.7 when targeting 11.1. I'd hate to see what a higher afr looks like...

I can't say I notice any power increase going from low to high 11's. If there us one I doubt it's much. This car doesn't seem to make much power off running leaner.

[Boost_creep]

I have the V2b dongless AP.

I still feel a load table is getting in the way here. Or possibly a table yet to be discovered by Cobb.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I think I was able to find 2 similar situations here: 1) speed6 not hitting boost targets 2) Boost Tune Woes

I'll take a look at these...thanks

[Lex]

Been a while since this has been touched. Alas, I have documented this WGDC "issue" with several customers that is present in both boost and load based tunes.

In the upper RPM the ECU just doesn't follow load or boost targets and drops WGDC. This will be worse in cold weather, E85 cars, BT cars. Stay tuned, I will do a write-up ... and then COBB will have to be doing some work I should say that I really like how we're getting more and more control of the ECU and COBB have been awesome and very responsive at catering to our requests.

[mikeySP307]

subd

[loopymps]

Dano when you say you can force the tune to go for Boost Targeting instead of Load Targeting do you think this could be done with any tuning tool. e.g. Mazdaedit.?

How would I put the load targets out of reach? Noob tune with Gen 2.
Which Tables would take care of my Boost tune. Sorry if you have to repeat yourself but I was trying this out.

Your thread is unreal and I am hopeing to be able to do a Boost Tune using my current software package on my gen 2.

Look forward to your response.

[Lex]

There are several ways to force a tune into boost targeting mainly but they revolve around the LEC (load error correction) tables. VersaTuner does not give you access to the coarse LEC tables - does MazdaEdit give you access to all the load error and boost error correction tables the AP does?

[loopymps]

These are the parameters I have on MazdaEdit for LOAD. There is one for LOAD Correction with a ? on it.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by Lex Been a while since this has been touched. Alas, I have documented this WGDC "issue" with several customers that is present in both boost and load based tunes. In the upper RPM the ECU just doesn't follow load or boost targets and drops WGDC. This will be worse in cold weather, E85 cars, BT cars. Stay tuned, I will do a write-up ... and then COBB will have to be doing some work I should say that I really like how we're getting more and more control of the ECU and COBB have been awesome and very responsive at catering to our requests.

2 things, have you found a resolution to this? Cause my car is doing it
At the 5800-6200 wgdc just drops, this is on a boost tune, e85 + 3071....

Also, for some reason it puts your post back in 1970...

uploadfromtaptalk1352936282055.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using tapatalkreplace 2

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne 2 things, have you found a resolution to this? Cause my car is doing it At the 5800-6200 wgdc just drops, this is on a boost tune, e85 + 3071.... Also, for some reason it puts your post back in 1970... Attachment 81584 Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using tapatalkreplace 2

Lol, I just saw a post that was dated 1969. I thought it was just my phone being crazy

Freekn tappin

[Dano]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne 2 things, have you found a resolution to this? Cause my car is doing it At the 5800-6200 wgdc just drops, this is on a boost tune, e85 + 3071.... Also, for some reason it puts your post back in 1970... Attachment 81584 Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using tapatalkreplace 2

Cobb has a fix right around the corner. Lex helped them flesh out the remaining tables iirc.


Tappin

Date stamp is b/c old thread is old

Lol.


Tappin

[crutch77]

Originally Posted by Lex Been a while since this has been touched. Alas, I have documented this WGDC "issue" with several customers that is present in both boost and load based tunes. In the upper RPM the ECU just doesn't follow load or boost targets and drops WGDC. This will be worse in cold weather, E85 cars, BT cars. Stay tuned, I will do a write-up ... and then COBB will have to be doing some work I should say that I really like how we're getting more and more control of the ECU and COBB have been awesome and very responsive at catering to our requests.

Originally Posted by Dano Cobb has a fix right around the corner. Lex helped them flesh out the remaining tables iirc. Tappin Date stamp is b/c old thread is old Lol. Tappin

I know this thread is older than dirt, but was a solution ever found? My WGDC and boost start dropping below commanded values around 5K for no apparent reason. Everything behaves as you'd expect below that threshhold. I've seen the problem described in many threads, but I've never seen a root cause or fix described.

I posted my map and a log in this thread:

ATR 1.9.1.0-5046 is out with Load Tuning > 80% IDC resolution...

I'd really appreciate any help you guys can give in solving this issue.

@Lex
@Dano
@rfinkle2