2.3 Ecoboost Mustang Parts. Can we use them?

[Turbo_Steve]

So it is looking promising that we may be able to use some of the parts from the new 2.3 ecoboost mustang engine. Fords duratec family of engines is very similar to our mazda mzr engine.

Ford does not have 2.3 ecoboost parts listed for the mustang yet online @ Official Ford Parts Site | Buy Motorcraft & OEM Ford Parts Online | FordParts.com

However they have the parts listings up for the new 2015 lincoln mkc with an ecoboost 2.3 enigne. I am going to guess these engine parts are the same as in the mustang variant at this point.

Some cool things I am finding for pricing

Bare Block $760
Head Gasket $16
Head Bolt set $32
Forged Connecting rod $34
Forged crankshaft $275.00
Complete short block assembly $1600

At this point I can't say for sure that all of these parts interchange with our engines but it is looking good so far. If this is the case then look for an inexpensive parts source for engine builds. Same bore / stroke.

The odd thing is that the "cast" pistons list for $375 and I am not sure if that is for 1 or all 4. The pistons used in this engine are supposed to be unique cast aluminum with a steel ring land groves.

I also believe the block may be different externally for the MKC than the mustang as the MKC is fwd based vs the obvious rwd mustang. Also the oil feed and return may not be the same as our block but it is possibly close enough to make something work.

Here are some specs.

2015 Mustang Engine Specs: 2.3L EcoBoost 4 Cylinder

The Details Behind The 2015 Mustang's New 2.3 Liter EcoBoost

Thoughts? I am ordering a head gasket for comparison purposes soon as well.

[ImGryssLOL]

Those prices made my dick move

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by ImGryssLOL Those prices made my dick move

Just remember at this point it is unknown what will swap between engines. But we have good odds that stuff will be compatible. It's also unknown if those rods are any stronger than ours.

The thing that intrigues me the most is the head bolts and the gasket. Compared to 2.0 ecoboost stuff those are unique part numbers. The mustang 2.3 ecoboost will be the highest factory hp rated version of this engine family released to date so I am hoping the head bolts and the gasket are improved and can handle more abuse. Oh, and also that we can use them for reliable 450whp builds. Obviously anything more than that and you would want some L19 Head studs.


Also the awd / focus RS is coming soon and maybe different cheap parts we can use from those cars.

[Darth_Nuruodo]

The thing is it's been shown that our stock head bolts can handle north of 450hp when the proper torque procedure is followed. Freek has shown this among others. There is plenty of evidence that our stock head bolts hold it down as good or better than ARP2000s.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by Darth_Nuruodo The thing is it's been shown that our stock head bolts can handle north of 450hp when the proper torque procedure is followed. Freek has shown this among others. There is plenty of evidence that our stock head bolts hold it down as good or better than ARP2000s.i Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Very true. But the point I am trying to get across is that Mazda engineered our gasket and bolts for a 260hp engine. If Ford engineered their stuff for a 320hp engine in theory it should be better. But no way to tell at this point. But at the price those parts go for if they work the same or better than Mazda parts then it is a win.

[mr.speedy3]

this is going to be interesting.

[Turbo_Steve]

I have learned that the ecoboost mustang 2.3 head gasket has a different part number from the lincoln mkc 2.3 ecoboost. Hoping at this point that it has some sort of magic pixie dust coating on it. Although the price is only $18.30. Now to order one and compare it to a mazdaspeed head gasket.

Also the mkc & the mustang use the same part number block. The engineers at ford placed the alternator and a/c compressor bolt up on the intake side of the block for the mkc. Not sure if we can even use it at this point. I know the alternator mounting holes on the exhaust side of the block are not there. It may be useable if the mounting holes for the passenger drive shaft / axle is there. So possibly use with an a/c delete.

The crankshafts are looking to be interchangeable too. Rod journal size should be the same as our motors. Earlier duratec engines had a different rod journal size.

[Etipp98]

We can already use a Mazda 5 alternator for a/c delete

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by Etipp98 We can already use a Mazda 5 alternator for a/c delete

I'm guessing we would have to use one of the ford alternators. Looks like they redesigned quite a bit on that side of the block.

[mzr0818]

I can't wait to see where this leads

[Turbo_Steve]

I may order a connecting rod just to measure. It's cheap so... If the length, pin diameter & journal size are the same this would confirm the crank. Also would love to get a look at the rod. It's supposedly forged and only $34 each. May be good for a budget rod upgrade.

[Roddiy]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve I may order a connecting rod just to measure. It's cheap so... If the length, pin diameter & journal size are the same this would confirm the crank. Also would love to get a look at the rod. It's supposedly forged and only $34 each. May be good for a budget rod upgrade.

Now this is something I can get behind. I have been hearing a lot about the ecoboost being engineered to hold a decent amount of power.

[aaron22388]

I am highly interested in the block! Someone with more MONIES than me buy one and report back lol

[Mazdazilla6]

Is the bore spacing the same as ours?

[Turbo_Steve]

I don't see why it would be different. I should eventually have some head gaskets to compare.

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by aaron22388 I am highly interested in the block! Someone with more MONIES than me buy one and report back lol

Just got it installed, it is a direct bolt-on, not a single modification required, go for it.

It also fits a 1974 Cutlass Supreme.

[Turbo_Steve]

I am willing to bet it works. But as stated above will most llikely require a/c delete. The guys at speedp6rformanc3 have had one in their shop and may be able to let us know.

[aaron22388]

I couldn't care less about a/c but if the Ranger block works and externally the Fusion and Focus block are the same I dont see why they would change it now. I would buy a Ranger block but it doesn't seem like Ford sells then anymore but I hate to pay the Mazda upcharge for basically the same product!

[Turbo_Steve]

Um.. the ranger, fusion and focus blocks have no oil squirter jets. Not really something I would want to give up.

[aaron22388]

The price I was quoted for a Ranger block before being told it was unavailable was $460. For the Speed3 block the cheapest I have been able to find is $1500. I coukd have had the oil squirters jets machined for much less than $1000. But the Mustang I'm sure has them. I just need to find out what I can keep and what I would lose externally with the Mustang block.

[drago86]

The 2.3 ecoboost uses 2200 psi rail pressure. I wonder if we could use their spill valve to up out rail pressure. Also their injectors might be bigger and bolt in.

[Turbo_Steve]

The injectors won't be compatible. The focus st injectors are a no go for swapping. And I would assume the EB mustang is the same. The relief valve would be worth looking into.

[Turbo_Steve]

Wanted to add to this. Basically was asked via pm if I have confirmed if the cranks will swap.

I am like 90-95% sure the ecoboost 2.3 cranks will swap.

And I am also 100% sure the connecting rods, won't swap without using ecoboost mustang specific pistons due to different connecting rod lengths and piston pin heights.

Some technical specs

____________


Mazdaspeed rod length is 5.927"

Mazdaspeed Big end is 2.167

Mazdaspeed Big end is .859 wide

Advertised stroke is 94.0 mm

------------

Ecoboost mustang rod length is 5.875"

Ecoboost 2.3 big end is 2.167

Ecoboost big end is .860 wide

The advertised stroke is 3.7" / 94mm

(.860 vs .859 big end width I can assume is just rounding up or down on one or the other)

Seeing as the stroke is the same, the bore spacing is known to be identical on the engines & that the big end of the connecting rod is the same size, I would assume the cranks are a direct swap.

The difference in connecting rod length should not matter at all because the piston pin height in the ecoboost mustang engine is most likely different and that explains the rod length difference.

Only thing left to do is someone pick up a crank and double check some of the measurements first hand.


Also it looks like the current price on the crankshaft has gone down. Online I can get one for $207.00 brand new.

[Mazdazilla6]

Has anyone verified that their crank is forged? Back in the day there was speculation with the 2.5L duratec guys because an MZR crank was like 3x more expensive the it was forged and the duratec one was cast.

I'd be very surprised if a forged crank was that cheap from the OEM.

[Turbo_Steve]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Has anyone verified that their crank is forged? Back in the day there was speculation with the 2.5L duratec guys because an MZR crank was like 3x more expensive the it was forged and the duratec one was cast. I'd be very surprised if a forged crank was that cheap from the OEM.

Ford has listed the engine as equipped with a forged crank several times.

The oem cranks from the 2.3 ecoboost are also being sold through ford racing and are specifically listed as forged. Although the crank through ford racing sells for $499 it is mentioned in the listing it is the production crank from the EB mustang. You can just so happen to buy the crank cheaper from the dealer than through Ford Racing.

2.3L ECOBOOST CRANKSHAFT | Part Details for M-6303-23EB | Ford Racing Performance Parts

[Mazdazilla6]

Well that's awesome! I know all of the journal sizes are the same. Just need to make sure the flywheel bolt pattern and the snout length are the same, though I highly doubt they'd change either of those.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Steve The injectors won't be compatible. The focus st injectors are a no go for swapping. And I would assume the EB mustang is the same. The relief valve would be worth looking into.

I wouldn't give up on the EB injectors yet. They probably won't fit but we'd have to see how the bosses on the EB head look like to compare.
If the injector bosses are different than the whole head is probably going to be pretty different.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Tomas I wouldn't give up on the EB injectors yet. They probably won't fit but we'd have to see how the bosses on the EB head look like to compare. If the injector bosses are different than the whole head is probably going to be pretty different.

A lot of the EcoBoost engines use the Bosch HDEV-5 injector. Which we're currently already looking at adapting to our head. And, as of last week, found a company who makes DI HDEV-5's which can support 800hp on 4 cylinders.

[Tomas]

Thread link?

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Tomas Thread link?

Discussion of it starts towards the bottom of page 15: Upgraded injectors (because aux fuel is for losers)

Here's the company: :: NOSTRUM ENERGY ::

[season_of_ages]

So! Will I be picking up one of these cranks?

[akaRommate]

it seems they use the same crank in the new RS

#EJ7Z-6303-B

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Anyone tried using this crank yet?

[MD1032]

I need an Ecoboost Mustang bottom end in my life.

[BAT-man]

Any updates?

[Cdnspeed6]

ecoboost block has different coolant passages, the rotating assembly should work

[MD1032]

I am going to buy a rod and measure it out, probably after the holidays. I will be seeking to assemble a short block with ecoboost pistons and rods for S&G. I have a feeling I'll probably need to use the Ford bearings with the rods (if we can use the Mazda bearings, even better), but I'm hoping the sizing and tolerances will be the same as the Mazda so they are compatible with our crank, because although the Ford crank looks identical in pics, I have a feeling something with either the pilot bearing area or front of the crank is bound to be ever so slightly different.

If everything works the way I'm hoping it will work, there won't be any reason for anyone to build an OEM replacement engine with stock pistons and rods anymore unless they are trying to save the $200-300 difference in pistons.

[impossible]

Would love to see this confirmed soon, hoping to pull the trigger.. $300 > $1200

[MD1032]

I need to order more stuff. I got the Ford rod in the mail and I'll definitely need the Ford con rod bearings because they don't have the alignment tab impressions in them like the Mazda rods (which is annoying because it will make assembly more difficult). I'm also going to pick up a couple instruments for measuring accurately, and a Mazda rod and bearings to compare to. Sadly this is the best I can do without having an EB2.3 engine assembly manual, which I would still like to acquire if I can.

This is a long-term project for me. I don't even have a block sourced yet.

edit: So, things are not looking good right now. I called multiple places about the EB2.3 pistons (part number EJ7Z6108E) and they have all said the price is for a single piston, which depending on where you go ranges from $320-450. This pricing is pretty outrageous when you consider that a complete assembled short block (part number FR3Z6009D) shipped is about $1400-1450 ($1900-1950 with $500 core charge) on most sites. I'm not sure what do to about that. I want to reach out to Ford corporate parts and ask what the deal is, but I can't find contact info. For reference stock Gen2 pistons are $60 for a set on MSM.

You can see from the specs on Manley's site for their rods that the rod length is different and everything else is otherwise pretty much identical as we'd expect, since what Ford did relative to the MZR was lengthen the piston and move the wrist pin down relative to the piston top, keeping the total length of the piston-rod assembly roughly the same.



I'm a little confused about the con rod bearings because Ford has three different part numbers, EJ7Z6211A, EJ7Z6211B, and EJ7Z6211C, and apparently they are all valid but are different "grades". The upper and lower bearings are identical and the part number corresponds to a single bearing.

The crank is dirt cheap (part number EJ7Z6303B), <$200 shipped. I messaged someone from the community about sending one to them to see if it would be compatible. Hopefully they will accept my offer.

So at the end of the day the pricing might prevent me from using the Ford pistons, which would suck, but hopefully I can demonstrate that the piston-rod assemblies are compatible since already the EB2.3 aftermarket parts are starting to show a slight price advantage over the equivalent MZR parts and the price is going to continue to go down as more EB2.3's start to saturate the market.

[Tomas]

where do you get that price from msm for $60 gen2 pistons?
that fucking RS short block is a steal.