Catch can warning for cold climates!!!

[bnoon]

The last couple of days I've had a starting issue that I've solved with stock replacement spark plugs (I was 2 heat ranges colder). I've also noticed that I was smelling smoke again the last couple of weeks. When I pulled the intercooler, it was coated with TONS of oil!!! This has never happened to my car before, even at it's worst smoking it was always out the exhaust side of the turbo. My thoughts went RIGHT to the PCV side of things since I still have my PTP and BNMotorsports restrictor banjo bolt in place and haven't smoked since both were installed.

So... back-track a little bit... I made an oil change about a week ago and went to empty the SM catch can and only a few drops came out of it. I didn't think much of it since it's not been that long since my last oil change. Well, today I thought to check the catch can a little closer because it's the only reason I can think of that I would be pushing oil into the intake and smoking... The catch can is frozen SOLID with water that it pulled from the crankcase!!!! I've not been getting any PCV suck at all through it!!! I pulled it all the way out of the car and put the stock PCV/tube back in place and also put the stock TMIC back on until I can get a chance to clean up the air/water core and pipes from all of the oil in them.

Today's lesson: Check your catch cans in colder climates!!! If I put the catch can back in place, I will be relocating the PCV valve up higher so that the catch can will be able to be located closer to the engine to make sure it melts if I do it at all.

[felt]

Wow, that sucks, glad you caught it before it got even worse.

[speed23]

Yeah that sucks. I have a catch can but haven't installed it since -20 is like the average temp here in canada right now. I suspected that freezing would be a problem, but I wasn't 100 percent sure. Thanks for posting, now I know for sure.

[bnoon]

Yeah, I hope so too. I had high enough crankcase pressure that it pushed oil past the cam position sensor in the valve cover and I had light oil at the filler cap too. The main valve cover seal looks OK though. I think I got lucky with only short in town driving since I started noticing smoke. Hopefully all is well with the harder to replace seals like rear crank seal/etc that I would have to pull the engine to replace. The bottom of the engine is dry too, so that's a good sign.

Originally Posted by speed23 Yeah that sucks. I have a catch can but haven't installed it since -20 is like the average temp here in canada right now. I suspected that freezing would be a problem, but I wasn't 100 percent sure. Thanks for posting, now I know for sure.

Yeah, we've been getting that here in Iowa, USA as well. Last two mornings have been -1 and -6 F as I've gone into work with -20-30 wind chills. Not a whole lot of fun.

[Addikted To Boost]

its funny you should post this, just yesterday i went to try to drain my saikou michi since its been a couple thousand miles, and it usually fills pretty fast in the winter, and only a couple drops came out... I stuck a small flat head up inside the drain plug to make sure it wasnt plugged but for all i know i could have just been stabbin a block of ice because nothing came out still. I wonder if this is how mine is...

[soccerballz]

Wow good to know what temps are you seeing in your area?

[HLR Element]

damn... i just installed mine, hopefully since it's just installed it'll still work since not much should be in there, warm tonight, 21... been the low teens past few nights

[Addikted To Boost]

i wonder if there is anything we can spray up into the drain valve to melt the shit?? anybody have any ideas?

[HLR Element]

^ hairdryer/heatgun... lol

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

hmmm I only had maybe a 1/2 ounce come out of my can after 2 months installed ... it's -20 to 30 on average here now you have me thinking ... shitty thing is i have no where to work on the car to fight with that damn stock piece to go back to stock. No way am I doing it bare handed in a non-insulated garage

[Lex]

Pour a little bit of windshield de-icer in the catch can. Not enough to fill it, but to mix some of that water with enough so that it won't freeze.

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

What about the lines? Mine are routed low and not near the engine ... is it likely something can freeze there?

That said ... getting washer fluid in the can would be a HUGE bitch too

[YammerR1]

The same thing happened to someone on one of the other forums recently. I can find a link to it if anyone is interested.

[Lex]

Put a blanket on the catch can.

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

what damage can this do should it freeze?

[YammerR1]

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 what damage can this do should it freeze?

Read the posts by garymca:
HOW-TO: Installing an Oil Catch Can

[HLR Element]

blanket isn't going to do much if it's cold out, blanket is an insulator and unless something is heating the CC not gunna help, maybe just disconnect the can and bring it inside with you? warm it up, empty... maybe leave the hose unplugged for winter and drain on the road like the old time hahah

[eddelgado]

I also have one of the Saikou Michi cans. I drain it every 2500 miles and typically see about 4 oz of fluid. The issue is that I have to have the can open for several minutes to get it to drain properly and it also helps if I wiggle the hoses around. I installed it with the Cobb directions and placed it in front of the passenger tire area. The concern would be that if you do not give it time and wait for it to drain you could probably fill it up and then would freeze in cold weather.

Ed

[Thestaplegunkid]

Yeah at my last oil change, I went to drain my new CC... I openned the drain, and nothing. so I unthreaded it.... and stuck a screwdriver up inside.... icey goodness. Sooooo out came the propane torch, and a while later, I had myself an empty catch can... wondering how often i'll have to drain it.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 What about the lines? Mine are routed low and not near the engine ... is it likely something can freeze there? That said ... getting washer fluid in the can would be a HUGE bitch too

As long as you dont have a long stretch of horizontal run, you should be fine. I would think the easiest way to add the de-icer would be disconnect the hose from the pcv and dump it in there.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by eddelgado I also have one of the Saikou Michi cans. I drain it every 2500 miles and typically see about 4 oz of fluid. The issue is that I have to have the can open for several minutes to get it to drain properly and it also helps if I wiggle the hoses around. I installed it with the Cobb directions and placed it in front of the passenger tire area. The concern would be that if you do not give it time and wait for it to drain you could probably fill it up and then would freeze in cold weather. Ed

That's where I installed mine too. The thing is, since it got cold out I haven't been getting as much out of the catch can, so I thought it was normal for this time of year... WRONG! If anything it should be pulling out MORE condensation in colder weather.

With engine heat it's been maybe melting an ounce or so, but the rest would stay totally frozen. I guess the lesson is to pull the plug all the way out and check with a screw driver to make sure you're ice-free and use a heat gun if you need to (My local Harbor Freight has an in-store special for $9.99 for Chicago Electric basic heat gun).

Originally Posted by YammerR1 Read the posts by garymca: HOW-TO: Installing an Oil Catch Can

Wow, sounds like he got more damage than I did, at least I hope so since mine was all short trips and in-town driving. Hopefully my oil smell goes away soon, or this will turn into a nightmare.

[slyguy800]

i would try emptying that thing weekly in the winter and the best time would be after you have run the engine for a bit to try and heat things up. i know after a week that mine empties quite a bit of water out of it so i wouldn't go much longer then that.

[Spoolme]

Brad, glad to hear it was just the plugs.

[Hank3]

Tried emptying mine this past weekend (I have option 1 from Matt's GB) and only a little bit trickled out. It had been maybe three or four weeks since I last drained it. Didn't think about the contents freezing. Even in FL, we've been hit with the cold snap. But it gets above freezing during the day, so is that long enough for thigns to melt? Temps have been mid 20's at night and then maybe mid 40's during the day.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by Hank3 Tried emptying mine this past weekend (I have option 1 from Matt's GB) and only a little bit trickled out. It had been maybe three or four weeks since I last drained it. Didn't think about the contents freezing. Even in FL, we've been hit with the cold snap. But it gets above freezing during the day, so is that long enough for thigns to melt? Temps have been mid 20's at night and then maybe mid 40's during the day.

I don't think it was a real problem until we got into single digit highs last couple of weeks. I would think you would be fine at those temps.

[Hank3]

That's what I figured. I even took it off and shook it vigorously to see if there was anything in it. This was around mid 40's/low 50's temp.

[Frequentflyer]

I can see a market for catch can warmers! Kinda like a NOS bottle warmer.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by Frequentflyer I can see a market for catch can warmers! Kinda like a NOS bottle warmer.

I'll get to work on it! LOL!

[desertrat]

It might be the mounting location, I have my occ installed in front of the batt box. I read In a mag that one should mount their occ above the block. With this mountng location I have not seen the cloudy latte look in the fluid coming out of the occ looks like coffee/ black oil out of my occ.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by desertrat It might be the mounting location, I have my occ installed in front of the batt box. I read In a mag that one should mount their occ above the block. With this mountng location I have not seen the cloudy latte look in the fluid coming out of the occ looks like coffee/ black oil out of my occ.

If you're not getting the cloudy look, then your catch can isn't pulling out the water/fuel condensation from the crankcase. It has nothing to do with your mounting location. How does your oil look at 3000-5000 intervals? Depending on your driving habbits, you may be driving long enough to burn off the water/fuel from the oil and it wouldn't get to your catch can to begin with. Also, if you have a poor quality catch can without good filtration media, you will not pull vapors and get the milky crap out of your oil at all. Believe me, you WANT to pull crappy looking stuff out of your oil, especially with this car and it's direct injection. This car KILLS oil.

[desertrat]

Originally Posted by bnoon If you're not getting the cloudy look, then your catch can isn't pulling out the water/fuel condensation from the crankcase. It has nothing to do with your mounting location. How does your oil look at 3000-5000 intervals? Depending on your driving habbits, you may be driving long enough to burn off the water/fuel from the oil and it wouldn't get to your catch can to begin with. Also, if you have a poor quality catch can without good filtration media, you will not pull vapors and get the milky crap out of your oil at all. Believe me, you WANT to pull crappy looking stuff out of your oil, especially with this car and it's direct injection. This car KILLS oil.

It's an occ not a wcc lol

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by desertrat It's an occ not a wcc lol

Yeah yeah, har har har. Used to remove what ever vapor contamination is in the oil. i.e. water/fuel/etc.

Also, judging by your location, you probably never would see much moisture in yours.

[Hank3]

Originally Posted by bnoon Depending on your driving habbits, you may be driving long enough to burn off the water/fuel from the oil and it wouldn't get to your catch can to begin with.

Curious about this bnoon. I'm not too knowledged about the OCC, but could you elaborate as to when the OCC would see most liquid? I've drained mine three times now and am wondering if it's due to my driving style that there isn't as much gunk in mine as others. I've drained it in 2-4 week increments. Most I have had is 1/4 cup.

[stormin84]

mine froze up once already, i have the elite engineering can so all i do is unscrew it and dump it, so i don't really have to worry about the freezing. i am however checking it every week, to make sure it doesn't freeze again.

[Underground]

Damn sucks to live where you guys do... i bitch and complain about it being cold when its 50 degrees outside... lol. Normal midday temps are about 70-80 during winter lol. We only have 2 seasons here in AZ.

[slyguy800]

technically all that water isn't being pulled from the crankcase. a lot of it actually forms in the can itself since the can is probably always cold in the winter and you get the warm engine air flowing through there it forms inside the can.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by Hank3 Curious about this bnoon. I'm not too knowledged about the OCC, but could you elaborate as to when the OCC would see most liquid? I've drained mine three times now and am wondering if it's due to my driving style that there isn't as much gunk in mine as others. I've drained it in 2-4 week increments. Most I have had is 1/4 cup.

Short drives for a full tank (or more tanks) of driving would get you the most liquid in your CC. I drive 5-10 minutes to work (depending on traffic lights) and 5-10 back, so I get quite a bit. Best thing to do is get a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) done on your oil and drain your CC into a clear plastic cup and let it stand for a week or so to settle. Then you can see yourself what is left in the oil and what you're pulling out of the oil. Water will be clear-ish, oil = dark, fuel will be yellow-ish, with various color differences throughout. If you truly want to know what your catch can is pulling out, run a UOA wihout the CC connected, then the next oil change do a UOA with it connected. Try to have the same driving habits and temp conditions on both UOA's to not skew results.

Originally Posted by slyguy800 technically all that water isn't being pulled from the crankcase. a lot of it actually forms in the can itself since the can is probably always cold in the winter and you get the warm engine air flowing through there it forms inside the can.

True, true. Run a UOA with and without as above to know what you're truly pulling out of the oil with the CC.

[Hank3]

Thanks for the info!

[bnoon]

No problem.

[Thestaplegunkid]

Alright.... so a bit of an update. I had a frozen solid catch can, during my last oil change (3000 km ago).... anyhow, I unthawed it with the torch, however I suspected that at some point it may have blocked the vent path from the base of the motor.

Anyhow, I had the car in the garage today, to put the normal pcv hose back on for winter.... when I noticed oil coming from between my bellhousing and my block. So I believe my rear main seal must have let some oil by during the possible PCV blockage. This would also explain the intermittent clutch slippage I've been experiencing, under hard acceleration (oil on the clutch). My question.... is it possible that the seal might not be fucked? (Oh, and I was down 1/2 litre of oil)

Also... I'm leaning towards my new SPEC clutch being toast..... since it's most likely been oiled...... any chance it could recover from this? My guess is no... but anyone with any experience in this matter, please speak up.

Otherwise... I'll be dropping the motor in the spring, and replacing the rear main seal, and the clutch.

CATCH CANS and the cold.... don't mix.