breaking in rebuilt engine question

[Footy1986]

so, i am going to follow the plan in which is the break in secrets that have been floating around and i do intend to follow those guidelines so BEFORE anyone links that page, i read it a few times and i understand it. its more along the lines of use of boost. I drive a 06 ms6. the engine is fully rebuilt. do i push hard but try not to put the boost on it too much or just run it hard with boost? i dont wanna have to redo this process again. im staying stock for right now. mods: COBB SRI, forge bpv v1, cat back magnaflow exhaust. internals are manley h beam and 4032 pistons on king bearings.

[MikeBavaro]

I have yet to build, or break in a turbo'd motor but if its anything like N/A stuff you want to avoid stress and revs. And for that matter, vacuum is beneficial when seating rings. (it draws oil past the rings and helps lubricate the process).

I know that with old flat tappet cams there is a very specific way to "run them in" to avoid wiping the lobes. If one were to replace cams (and therefore "lifters"?), would they have to follow a similar process? for reference, it usually entails holding the engine between 3-3500 rpm for 20 min, varying the rpm slightly over that interval.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Lots of engine decel, frequent oil changes, and do not be "easy" on it. I'd avoid boost for the first 50 miles or so (but do almost N/A wot pulls). Vary the rpm a bunch and you will be in business.

Everyone has their preference... I know @phate; boosted in the first 5 miles LOL.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Footy1986 so, i am going to follow the plan in which is the break in secrets that have been floating around and i do intend to follow those guidelines so BEFORE anyone links that page, i read it a few times and i understand it. its more along the lines of use of boost. I drive a 06 ms6. the engine is fully rebuilt. do i push hard but try not to put the boost on it too much or just run it hard with boost? i dont wanna have to redo this process again. im staying stock for right now. mods: COBB SRI, forge bpv v1, cat back magnaflow exhaust. internals are manley h beam and 4032 pistons on king bearings.

Who built your motor? I was looking at Speedperformance because they seem to be the only ones that offer the 4032 pistons.

[Footy1986]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Who built your motor? I was looking at Speedperformance because they seem to be the only ones that offer the 4032 pistons.

I am. I got the tools I'm just in the final parts of the machining. Head being done and the internals balanced. I did my research and they are the only ones I could find that make the 4032 piston aftermarket. I needed it 88 mm too so.

[5doorsoffury]

It wasn't a built motor but when i got my car new i broke the motor in with varying rpms and moderate boost with a lot of engine breaking. I did a lot of dino oil changes before synthetic got used. A built motor just means a looser tolerance in things like the rings ect... I always thought it was about heat cycling not too hot and engine brakeing to cool things down.

[rocknrolla47]

So what's recommended? Soft break in or hard break in ?


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[Footy1986]

Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury A built motor just means a looser tolerance in things like the rings ect... I always thought it was about heat cycling not too hot and engine brakeing to cool things down.

Call me dumb if I'm wrong but I'm not using the 2618 pistons which have the looser tolerances. I have the 4032 it can run the tighter tolerances because it's the stock piston material. And heat cycling is when your on the dyno. I'll be breaking in on the street. But I'm not sure. I'm going to break it in hard. I wasn't sure about boost. I was thinking like 8 - 10 psi the most but wasn't sure about it so I asked.


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[MikeBavaro]

Originally Posted by rocknrolla47 So what's recommended? Soft break in or hard break in ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

soft, no boost

[Omega]

A) ask your engine builder they will know the best way for you to break in your motor

B) You should do N/A like WOT pulls like mentioned (0.00 as measured on the vac/boost gauge). Minimal boost for first 50-100 miles.

C) TONS OF VARYING RPM'S AND ENGINE BRAKING

D) As mentioned don't baby it, once that 50-100 miles is down and you get the oil changed, start ramping up boost a bit (I just went full out at that point with the new stocker). Heck I didn't mind boosting slightly in that period either 5PSI and under babying it will sometimes cause issues with seating the rings (most important to do within the first 50miles).

I've done my stock new motor this way and I'm getting perfect compression, been running 20psi with E85 for the last 15,000 miles out of 20k on the motor and it hasn't missed a beat.

[nindoja]

Hard break in. @JgamB; barely made it 2 miles before he went WOT (okay, maybe it was 10 miles). He had a WGDC base-map ready to go before 50 miles or so and has been driving his engine hard ever since. ~550whp for a while now and no issues at all.

[Ayerspeed]

Never broken in a boosted engine but all of the N/A engine have been done by varying RPM, engine braking, being easy in the first 50 miles like said, then after that high load which builds higher cylinder pressures and forces the rings to set quickly.

[mituc]

Start the car after the rebuild, fill with break-in oil, fill with coolant, burp the system, go for a 10-30 miles drive, change the oil also with break-in oil, drive the car normally with no more than 50% throttle, change the oil after another 200-250 miles but fill only half with break-in oil and half with normal oil, and slowly start getting into it.

My built engines started to see above 20-22PSI of boost about 400 miles after the rebuild, but until then they saw a lot of downshifting and decels from 5000-5500rpm down.
The seating of the rings depends on this vacuum in the cylinders which pulls them in the other direction and helps them wear and seat properly.
That's also the reason why both hard or soft break-in procedures are successful when done properly: boost, then hard decel, so the rings seat for the hard break-in, long but softer decels for soft break-in.

With my second engine I went through a semi-soft break-in, meaning that with that first oil fill which I kept in the engine for about 20 minutes/10 miles I was slowly accelerating in 2nd gear up to like 5000rpm and was letting the car decel from there in the same gear.
Then with the next oil fill I boosted up to about 10-12PSI (so harder acceleration, in higher gears including 6th as I was on some sort of highway and could not use 2nd gear) and continued these acceleration-deceleration alternations. Now I'm at about 700 miles in the 2nd engine and I started to throw 28-30PSI at it.

One thing against the hard break-in is that some part is not perfectly seated (a bearing, a ring, whatever) and it needs a bit more to wear in, it can overheat or even snap.
Jay from Real Str. Performance leans more towards soft break in.

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[Footy1986]

ok. update time!! and another question i got the engine installed, running and with no leaks (yay no leaks) however upon driving it around to break engine in, i noticed my temperature gauge was saying its running hotter than stock. it almost went to the H. i coasted down a hill and able to drive it home. on the way back, the temperature gauge dropped back to normal operating temperature range (middle of gauge). even gave it one last little N/A pull and it didnt move. is it normal for a new engine to run hotter at the beginning or could a faulty thermostat cause this. i live in fl where it never gets colder than like 50 normal (20s sometimes during our "winter") and thinking of pulling thermostat out and have it coolant free flowing through the engine continuously.

[nindoja]

How much coolant did you actually put in the system? If you didn't put in almost 2 whole gallons, you've got to let the coolant burp through the system. Keep adding in more coolant and heat cycling the engine (don't let it get above ~230) until you've got 2 gallons in the system.

[Footy1986]

I've got about two in there. Some came out through leaks so I bought a third bottle and a quart of that is gone too. Idk what the temp went to but if it went any closer, I would have shut the engine off immediately. I'll check it when I get home again


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[Mazduhspeed6]

Quick question on these break in processes, @mituc on your directions for the soft break in process it says a 10-30 miles drive. So that a 10 to 30 Mile drive? Then it says to change the oil again with breakin oil again, driving ng it normally with no more then 50% throttle, then do the oil again. Well during that period of 50% throttle driving, should you introduce any boost or keep it minimal like 1 or 2 psi ya know basically na pulls, and you don't state anything during that period to be downshifting with lots of decel and engine braking, Im assuming that when you say normal driving during that period of breakin your including those characteristics, am I correct?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Mazduhspeed6 Quick question on these break in processes, @mituc on your directions for the soft break in process it says a 10-30 miles drive. So that a 10 to 30 Mile drive?

So go around the shop in a short 10-30 miles drive with break-in oil. In this short drive stay out of boost, but drive normally. Do not let the engine idle too long either, just drive normally. 2000-3000rpm is best.
The idea is for the break-in oil to do its initial thing on the piston rings and also incorporate all the lubricants used in the build process, as well as carrying away from the engine any metallic debris naturally resulted in the break-in (that fine metallic powder from the rings will end up in the oil filter).
In this stage you only need these 2000-3000rpm to maintain oil pressure and to complete a certain amount of engine cycles to ensure the proper initial break-in and clean-up.

Engine braking is recommended in this stage, just don't use high revs. Letting the engine rev down from 3000-3500rpm to 2000-ish. Ideally this stage should be completed on a less busy road so that you can accelerate slowly out of boost up to 3000-ish and then just let off the acceleration until the engine goes down to 2000, and then accelerate again.

Originally Posted by Mazduhspeed6 Then it says to change the oil again with breakin oil again, driving ng it normally with no more then 50% throttle, then do the oil again. Well during that period of 50% throttle driving, should you introduce any boost or keep it minimal like 1 or 2 psi ya know basically na pulls, and you don't state anything during that period to be downshifting with lots of decel and engine braking, Im assuming that when you say normal driving during that period of breakin your including those characteristics, am I correct?

The second stage of the break-in should be about using the engine as if the car was a normal family car in normal traffic. After, say, 50-100 more miles from starting this second stage boosting up to 4-6PSI and revving up to 5000rpm is desirable once the engine is in temp (and it should be if you continue this stage right after completing #1 ).
You should do engine-braking in this stage as much or more than you boost to 4-5-6PSI. Downshift whenever you have the occasion and let the engine rev down naturally from 4000-4500rpm, this will help the rings seat and even out. Imagine the driving style in this stage as some kind of a spirited driving but also fearing a speed ticket: don't give it too much, but not too little either.

With all the engines I helped building so far (two of mine, two of my friends) in this second stage we used a 50/50 blend of break-in oil (AMS Oil SAE-30 Break-in oil) and some decent engine oil that we could get from the shelf of a store or from the shop (Mobil 1 0w40, the Mazda Original Dexelia Ultra 5w30, and so on). Yes, we mixed semi-synthetics with a lot of zinc additives with a semi or full synthetic, but as long as you have the break-in oil there you're good. In your case will be easier to find some semi-synthetic or even better some dino oil there (the semi-synthetics we get here have too many additives anyway).

The idea of the blend is to offer the motor a bit of protection but not too much protection, and also promote the continuation of the break-in process. Diluting the break-in oil will also reduce the overall content of zinc which is necessary if the car still has one or two cats on (and ours all do).

This stage can continue for up to 1000 miles and a few days. Avoid short trips with the car in this interval.

After this stage use whatever oil you want just make sure it's not ester synthetic (redline, royal purple, motul ester, millers, and so on), but some synthetic oil. Add a quart of break-in oil to that and you will be good for the next 1500-2000 miles before you go with your favourite oil.

[Mazduhspeed6]

Not sure where ya think I'm located, on the moon, lol, but I can get just about all oils available. I have Lucas, amsoil, motul, penosin, shell, Brad Penn breaking oil, anyways lots of oils, so any particulars let me know something I should look for or nah. I think I grasp most of what ya through out there which I really appreciate the info man. The one thing I didn't see was in these intervals when should I be dropping the oil for change each time, coz I know the first few hundred I thought have a few changes in them

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Mazduhspeed6 Not sure where ya think I'm located, on the moon, lol, but I can get just about all oils available.

No, I was actually saying that around here in Europe where I am I have more difficulties finding decent mineral/semi-synthetic oils to use during the break-in.
I had a pretty hard time finding some good break-in oil with more Zinc in it. I has basically 3 choices:

1. RedLine break-in additive used with some decent synthetic oil
2. Millers GRO 10w40 (designed specially for engine break-in)
3. AMSOil SAE-30 Break-in oil

For the first engine I build I used the redline break-in in the second stage (for the 1st stage of the break-in, that 20-ish mile first drive,I managed to source some Millers GRO) and then it vanished from all on-line stores in Europe.
For the rest of the builds we actually exhausted the stocks of AMSOil SAE-30 of a known on-line store here because we bought like 10 quarts each time, 6 to use for the first stage of the break-in and 4 to blend later (3 quarts for the 2nd stage with 50/50 blend, one more quart for the longer oil change after 1500-2000 miles).

So this was our story, yours should be less bumpy

[Jeffspeed3]

What oil is everyone using for the break in process in a built engine

[Hoyoman]

When I built my motor 700 miles ago. I used 2618 drove it 20 miles with up to 20psi with lots of varying rpm decel changed the oil drove 150 with short single gear wot pulls 26 psi and long decel changed oil now just driving it normal have gone to mexico since. This was all done from the start with e35 and meth map

Running good... SO FAR hahaha

[Jeffspeed3]

What oils did you use and are currently useing

[Fstrnyou]

I was thinking about using Amsoil Z-Rod.

[LenSpeed6]

how bout using a good dyno oil line Castol or Penzoil and such with a zinc additive? I use Lucas Zinc additive in my Javelin because i have to with a flat tappet cam but wondering what peoples thoughts were about it in these cars. I will be running a CS catted downpipe.

[Fstrnyou]

Amsoil Z-Rod is specifically designed for older engines with flat tappet cams. The "Z" is for Zinc.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Jeffspeed3 What oil is everyone using for the break in process in a built engine

I used AMSOil break-in oil (SAE30) for the first drive of 15-20 miles and then the second drive of 250 miles, and then swapped with a mix of 50% of this oil and 50% of some regular synthetic oil (Mobil 1 0w40) for the next 1000 miles.

Then I started using Motul ester sport 5w50 and redline 5w50.

[LenSpeed6]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Amsoil Z-Rod is specifically designed for older engines with flat tappet cams. The "Z" is for Zinc.

I understand that lol for my javelin the engine builder said to run part-synthetic and zinc additive, not going to argue with that guy.

I am going to be running a CS catted DP and I am more then willing to run zinc for the initial break in if its not going to wipe out the sensors and catalyst. Trying to be as legal as I can for the state...

[mituc]

Originally Posted by LenSpeed6 I am going to be running a CS catted DP and I am more then willing to run zinc for the initial break in if its not going to wipe out the sensors and catalyst. Trying to be as legal as I can for the state...

I was in the same situation as you are now. I also have cats in the aftermarket exhaust and I don't intend to ruin them.
So for the first few hundred miles you can run some break-in oil with high zinc content, but not after that. The zinc will affect the cats after a relatively long time (think 10k+ miles), so if you run it for the first 200-500 miles you will be perfectly fine.

On the other hand taking your engine builder advice is always a good idea. There are several right ways to break-in an engine so even if the general consensus here is slightly different doesn't necessarily mean someone is not right.

[LenSpeed6]

The engine builder that I went to is a family friend who really only likes to work on old American v8s. witch isn't a bad thing, he did a fantastic job on multiple AMC engines and a chevy engine for me and my father threw out the years. Being his expertise is not in half breed turbocharged 4 cylinders, the deal that we made was for him to do the machine work and for me to assemble it witch I did.

When breaking in my AMC 360, he told me to lug the engine down and don't horse it around for 1000 miles, then change the oil and give it hell.

I know this cant be done with MZR's, seems like the idea that I have from reading some posts is to fire it up run it for 50-100 miles with no to minimal boost with a bunch of decal factored in, then my plan was to change the oil then slowly start to throw boost at it from when I decide to change it to about 500 ish miles, another oil change then let it have it..

right or wrong the thing shouldn't grenade again.

plan on going threw FREEKTUNE so I know the base map will be safe and tuning will be proper.