Supertech valves

[wyeto]

Pulled the head off of the donor engine that I bought and it had some bent valves.

The machine shop doing my work told me they get a sweet deal with supertech.

Im wondering what gains could be had by going to supertech valves or possibly even oversized inconel valves? Or is stock the way to go.

From the reading I have done I dont see many reviews

[ihasmazda]

isn't supertech really cheap quality stuff, or maybe i'm thinking about something else. someone must have some knowledge..

[06Speed6]

Unless you do some massive porting, stock size valves are fine. I have oem size intake and +1mm inconel exhaust valves plus major port work and found alot of gains. I also have more than $3000 in my head.

I have Supertech valves.

Be sure that you or your shop properly seats all of the valves to the head and then checks/resizes all of the lifter buckets since the gap will have tightened up a bit. Iirc it's .008-.010" int and .012-.014" exh. If they are too tight you have to replace them since they have those circular grooves that match the cam lobe and if you move them to a different lobe they will wipe the oil off the lobe and wear it and the bucket out.

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Unless you do some massive porting, stock size valves are fine. I have oem size intake and +1mm inconel exhaust valves plus major port work and found alot of gains. I also have more than $3000 in my head. I have Supertech valves. Be sure that you or your shop properly seats all of the valves to the head and then checks/resizes all of the lifter buckets since the gap will have tightened up a bit. Iirc it's .008-.010" int and .012-.014" exh. If they are too tight you have to replace them since they have those circular grooves that match the cam lobe and if you move them to a different lobe they will wipe the oil off the lobe and wear it and the bucket out.

I was hoping that you would chime in! seems like you have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

I was planning on a mediocre pnp but this is my daily so I dont want anything too aggressive and I am trying to keep the build costs down. I am also going to throw a gt2871 on so I dont know if the flow gains from upgrading or even just upgrading the exhaust side would be worth it.
Seems like a lot of custom work cutting new seats and resizing the lifter buckets unless I were to see a pretty solid gain.

what turbo are you running?
What other head work do you have done?

[06Speed6]

It's not really worth it unless you go all in, the gains from porting and oversize valves is noticeable but it's alot of work and expense when you can take that money and buy a bigger turbo and make more power.

I have:
Major port work
Major combustion chamber port work
welded closed EGR port
upgraded valves
upgraded valve guides
Vitton stem seals
Cromoly valve locks
Cosworth intake valve springs
24 new oem buckets
upgraded cams

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 It's not really worth it unless you go all in, the gains from porting and oversize valves is noticeable but it's alot of work and expense when you can take that money and buy a bigger turbo and make more power. I have: Major port work Major combustion chamber port work welded closed EGR port upgraded valves upgraded valve guides Vitton stem seals Cromoly valve locks Cosworth intake valve springs 24 new oem buckets upgraded cams

I think I'm just going to keep the cost down and stick with stock valves. If I had more than 2 intake and exhaust valves bent I would consider upgrading but I think they are fine for what I will be doing.
I will probably have someone do a light pnp and focus on the bowl work and exhaust ports.

I was also talking to my machine shop about back cutting my stock valves.

[06Speed6]

How did you only bend them on one cylinder?

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 How did you only bend them on one cylinder?

I have no idea. The engine that I'm pulling parts from threw a rod.

Got it from a guy on craigslist for cheap because I don't have a place to pull my engine yet.

I do remember one of the pistons being cracked in half. When I was pulling the head off I was late for work so I didn't have much time to investigate.

[06Speed6]

So the head you are using for your rebuild is off of a blown engine that threw a piston into the head and bent the valves? That head is almost certainly scrap metal. I knew something wasn't right when you said that only 2 intake and 2 exhaust were bent because that doesn't really happen. I'm not trying to be Debbie downer, I just don't want you to waste money on something that may not work at all.

Can you post some pics of that combustion chamber and the valves?

[wyeto]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 So the head you are using for your rebuild is off of a blown engine that threw a piston into the head and bent the valves? That head is almost certainly scrap metal. I knew something wasn't right when you said that only 2 intake and 2 exhaust were bent because that doesn't really happen. I'm not trying to be Debbie downer, I just don't want you to waste money on something that may not work at all. Can you post some pics of that combustion chamber and the valves?

my machinist gave it a quick once over and said it looked good, but he didnt spend much time looking at it.

I appreciate the concern, heres a pic. I could use the head off my car if its scrap, but im not sure what condition its in either.
The only spot I was concerned about was in the second combustion chamber from the left and my machinist told me when we resurface the head it should be fine.
Sorry for the cell phone pics this was when the head was a but dirtier too so there is a lot of shit everywhere





These are all the pics I have now. I will be working on it tmrw because I have a day off.

[06Speed6]

It's hard to tell but those grooves near the injector are going to have to be smoothed out, they could introduce some detonation if left alone. We're the rest of the valves checked? You can do it yourself by rolling the stem on a piece of glass, if any part of the stem stands up off of the glass it's bent, it's not fool proof but it works pretty good and it's free.

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Unless you do some massive porting, stock size valves are fine. I have oem size intake and +1mm inconel exhaust valves plus major port work and found alot of gains. I also have more than $3000 in my head. I have Supertech valves. Be sure that you or your shop properly seats all of the valves to the head and then checks/resizes all of the lifter buckets since the gap will have tightened up a bit. Iirc it's .008-.010" int and .012-.014" exh. If they are too tight you have to replace them since they have those circular grooves that match the cam lobe and if you move them to a different lobe they will wipe the oil off the lobe and wear it and the bucket out.

I cant receive PMs not sure why but can you email me i have a couple of questions on your head work i am trying to research something and you seem to have gone the route i am headed... (quickspeed6@gmail.com)

[qtrmile beast]

Got your message just havent had the time to call you early enough to talk. email me a good time as i know you probably have family you have to attend to in the evening. Im in maryland so i think you are about 1 hour behind me.

[SHADY1]

Hmm, Seals and guides are mostlikely trash and really at this point not worth not replacing $150 or so. The only thing is if you replace guides you will need to cut valve seats. Again this is not a issue if it's a stock head you current seats will be good enough and within spec. Now if you cut seats cam lash will change and tappets will need to be replaced. At the minimum you should do a valve leak by test. Many vidioes online just do a search.

If the car that this came from blew a rod (most likely in #3 ), it may of come through block and coolant and oil mixed and went on the pavement. The problem with this is metal migrates through the coolant and oil lines and end up in the head. The head should be disassembled and clean. Their are 4 plug in the head (2 on top, and 1 on each side) designed to be removed so cleaning can occure. You will need a 13mm hex socket for removal and install and some locktite 592 thread sealant.

And I agree, with a small frame turbo like the gt2871 oversizing the valve will be a waist of your time. however porting will set you up for upgrades in the future. This is time consuming but relatively easy to DIY.

Supertech makes a good valve and spring set for the MZR. I went with Inconel +1 exhaust, and Black Nitride +1 intake. Like 06speed6 I have $3k in my top end also but I have big Turbo build and needed more to reduce turbo lag.

I will give you one heads up. If you want to run 30psi reliably stock springs will not get it done. They were good on my stock build up to 24 to 25psi.

good luck!