09 Built Big Turbo MS3 not running right.....stuttering under WOT

[Motocooney]

UPDATE: The map from Ptuning is locked. Cant view it.

LOGS: I think its fairly obvious what the problem is....NO FUEL.

What are my option for either testing or replacing the hpfp? assuming thats what is. could it be the in tank pump?
The previous owner installed CP-E injector seals earlier this summer

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J4...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J4...it?usp=sharing



The logs arent to redline. I let off as soon as it starts hesitating. Does this make sense why it wont boost?
If needed I will try to get a complete 4th gear WOT pull but I really dont see a point until I can get the fuel I need.






Just bought the car.
Gt3071r turbo with ported waste gate
HPFP internals
HKS intake/turbo inlet
TXS FMIC
FUlly built engine stock compression (which tests 190psi across all four cylinders)
Stock bpv (took off the Turbosmart dual port)
AEM tru boost set to 20psi says the previous owner. I can't get it to boost more than 17psi

Here the problem. When I set the tru boost to the A setting (15psi says previous owner)
It boost fine to about 11-12 psi. Acceleration is smooth all the way up the rev range. Builds boost smoothly and holds.

When I select the high boost setting on the tru boost. It will hit 17psi sort of in fourth. The car jerks and hesitates almost the whole way up. It's like it doesn't wanna make boost correctly on this setting.
I've checked KR and FP pressure on the AP when this is happening and fuel pressure stays at 1700ish and no knock.

What the hell could it be? I've tried stretching the coil springs. Plugs are a week old.
LTFT is -11


I did a boost leak test today. It will hold as much as I give it.
But will not make the desired boost that the previous owner says it's supposed to make.
Isn't leaking and compression is perfect.

Any ideas?

Working on getting a logging rig setup. Will post logs as soon as I get it together

[Snyeed]

What's a logging rig?

Check the spark plug gap and post up logs asap.

[predapio]

Grats on picking up the speed. You have balls like Cochise for buying one that was already built.

Who owned it? Was he on these forums?

Top tip, if she's bucking like that, don't lay into it, until you find the cause.

read read read read and read some more.

Good luck.

[DSIT995]

Ditch the truboost and run a 3port ebcs and a proper tune...

These are the guys you need to be getting tuned by: [MENTION @atvfreek; @Lex; @rfinkle2;

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Motocooney Just bought the car. Gt3071r turbo with ported waste gate HPFP internals HKS intake/turbo inlet TXS FMIC FUlly built engine stock compression (which tests 190psi across all four cylinders) Stock bpv (took off the Turbosmart dual port) AEM tru boost set to 20psi says the previous owner. I can't get it to boost more than 17psi Here the problem. When I set the tru boost to the A setting (15psi says previous owner) It boost fine to about 11-12 psi. Acceleration is smooth all the way up the rev range. Builds boost smoothly and holds. When I select the high boost setting on the tru boost. It will hit 17psi sort of in fourth. The car jerks and hesitates almost the whole way up. It's like it doesn't wanna make boost correctly on this setting. I've checked KR and FP pressure on the AP when this is happening and fuel pressure stays at 1700ish and no knock. What the hell could it be? I've tried stretching the coil springs. Plugs are a week old. LTFT is -11 I did a boost leak test today. It will hold as much as I give it. But will not make the desired boost that the previous owner says it's supposed to make. Isn't leaking and compression is perfect. Any ideas? Working on getting a logging rig setup. Will post logs as soon as I get it together

It may be one of the settings on the tru boost system. IIRC, there is a fine and a coarse boost control and ramp speeds @ which the system can build boost.

[Manny]

do you AP bro?

[Motocooney]

I've bought modded cars before so I'm not scared lol

By logging rig I mean resurrecting my laptop and buying a USB to mini USB cable and downloading ATR.
It was built and tuned at Ptuning. I have ALL documentation on that. The previous owner was very thorough with all of that.

Update, I adjusted WGDC on the A setting to the same as the B setting and it boosts and accelerates smoothly. But still only hits 17ish in 3rd.
This is at 73% duty cycle on the truboost.

Plugs are gapped to .028. One step colder Denso iridiums

I should add that the week before I bought the car the previous owner replaced front o2, plugs and purge valve. 2 CELs for this. P2097 and p2195.

No CELs now.

What would keep the car from achieving more boost with this setup with no leaks and a healthy engine?

It's running a bit rich under WOT. There's a bit of black smoke. Not blue or white. Smells like fuel

Also the tune was locked by Ptuning. So I will have to start from scratch.

Recommendation for an Etuns?

I've owned a couple STIs and an EVO before this which I tuned my self with great results.
But the speed3 has an AP which I'm not familiar with so I'd like to just have it tuned via online tuner. I will however post logs ASAP

What parameters would you like to see logged, what gear, wot pull?

Thanks!

[Manny]

donate, and I will tell you how to go fast

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by Manny donate, and I will tell you how to go fast

Haha. I will donate as soon as I'm in love with the Mazda I just bought
Also I just drained my savings ordering wheels, shocks/springs and mudflaps.
Also, what's the average cost for a decent etune?who?

So I'm gonna try 90% duty cycle on the tru boost and see what I get. I have the over boost alarm set to 23psi. So ill just be easy on it.

Is the grimmspeed 3port decent? What about an mbc on the speeds? Do they play well together?

[Motocooney]

I really think it might be the Tru Boost.
Like the solenoid is fucked or something. I don't get it. It's frustrating as hell.
It feels like a misfire. Sometimes it sort of backfires while boost and wot!?
But no CEL and no KR while its happening.

What else could it be mechanically?

The car was tuned almost 2.5 years ago so I know it needs at least a touch up on the tune but this ridiculous. It's obvious to me now that this was maybe the sellers motivation to get rid of the car.

[Motocooney]

So I increased the duty cycle on the tru boost to 90% it's maximum and I can hit 18 psi. Seems low right?

[rtabagaboy]

You got your free advice. Ditch the truboost piece get a new eTune and win. Take logs.

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by DSIT995 Ditch the truboost and run a 3port ebcs and a proper tune... These are the guys you need to be getting tuned by: [MENTION @atvfreek; @Lex; @rfinkle2;

I'll quote myself... Etune by one of our etuners is the best way to go

Request a copy of ATR and get some logs posted if you wanna self tune

[mxlplx71]

man, you gots alotta reading/searching in your future.
we are happy to help, but more info would help.
was the last owner a member here?
the etuners here are the best. see that section.

[obijack]

you need an AP to tune the car. It is a data logging device as well as a tuning device. You need one bad. Once you get one you will wish every car you buy would have one. Go to cobbtuning.com and check it out. Just came out with a version 3, much cooler.

Edit; Get an etune.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Motocooney What parameters would you like to see logged, what gear, wot pull? Thanks!

The AEM truboost includes a decent mac 3 port solenoid... you may be able to get away with just using that and splicing into the factory wiring for boost control.

Air fuel ratio, hpfp actual pressure, boost, calculated load, spark advance, ltft's, stft's, wgdc, knock retard... if logging with the AP, the default parameters would be fine.

Is the car achieving boost targets in the remaining gears?

[Jarods7920]

Have you checked your fuel pressure at all when you are doing the wot pulls? Do you have any logs?

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The AEM truboost includes a decent mac 3 port solenoid... you may be able to get away with just using that and splicing into the factory wiring for boost control. Air fuel ratio, hpfp actual pressure, boost, calculated load, spark advance, ltft's, stft's, wgdc, knock retard... if logging with the AP, the default parameters would be fine. Is the car achieving boost targets in the remaining gears?

Actually I found this a while back and used it with a MAC valve for PNP boost control... That way ya don't need to cut the oem one.. So all you would need is the pigtail

OEM ECBS Pigtail (CONN-85730)

[Matrix311]

Originally Posted by obijack you need an AP to tune the car. It is a data logging device as well as a tuning device. You need one bad. Once you get one you will wish every car you buy would have one. Go to cobbtuning.com and check it out. Just came out with a version 3, much cooler.

check out his original post, he has an AP and he's monitored his FP and all that seems fine he said.

Originally Posted by obijack you need an AP to tune the car. It is a data logging device as well as a tuning device. You need one bad. Once you get one you will wish every car you buy would have one. Go to cobbtuning.com and check it out. Just came out with a version 3, much cooler.

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 Have you checked your fuel pressure at all when you are doing the wot pulls? Do you have any logs?

in his original post he mentioned FP stays at 1700 with no kr.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The AEM truboost includes a decent mac 3 port solenoid... you may be able to get away with just using that and splicing into the factory wiring for boost control. Air fuel ratio, hpfp actual pressure, boost, calculated load, spark advance, ltft's, stft's, wgdc, knock retard... if logging with the AP, the default parameters would be fine. Is the car achieving boost targets in the remaining gears?

I figured...those are the standard tuning parameters. thanks
I will be logging with an AP. Is there another option?
Ive used Romraider, EvoScan and ECUflash for all my other cars but this is different.
There doesnt seem to be a godd opensource DIY logging/tuning program for these cars...besides AP and ATR

To be honest, I dont know what the boost targets are.
Im going on what I was told the boost and A/R should be. Stupid I know.

I havent tried a real pull in 5th yet. Just 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
A/F on the AEM wideband are fine...11.6ish at peak torque and leveling out at 11ish.

I cant look at the map yet because Im waiting to download ATR.
Im not even sure I'll be able to because Ptuning probably locked it. But we'll see.

As far as free advice. Thanks!
I guess I thought thats what these forums are for.

And to the other few that told me to get an AP...or asked what the fuel pressure is during WOT....Read the Thread. I have an AP. 1700ish
The car is tuned for the mods it has. It might not be running optimally but its running fine.
I just got it and I like my cars to run how theyre supposed to so Im picking it apart.

Ive had the car for 3 days. I have PLENTY of experience tuning cars and dealing with mods and things not working properly and trouble shooting. Im not afraid to get my hands dirty.

I just thought asking some questions on these forums my give me a slight head start.

Also, I was up all night lastnight searching for issues similar to this one and came up with no solutions other than what Ive already tried and checked/fixed...to no avail.

Thanks so much to those who have taken the time to give me useful advice.

Coming soon: LOGS

[rfinkle2]

As for the tuning solutions you mentioned above, there is no open source software currently available for the ms3 that is widely used.

Originally Posted by Motocooney As far as free advice. Thanks! I guess I thought thats what these forums are for.

No.

[ms3blackmica]

HAHA PTuning..

Anyone else remember teh failz?

another-p-tuning-victim

[specvspeedfreak]

Seems like your getting help from the nicest and one of the most knowledgeable guys here. Your in good hands. You seem to know your shit so hopefully you know how to listen as well lol... Good luck.. When you get paid donate cause these guys might just save you a motor.. Well at least a lot of headache and some cash.

[snailD]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica HAHA PTuning.. Anyone else remember teh failz? another-p-tuning-victim

i knew the name sounded familiar....

similar shop out here, but not as bad. 400 bucks and claiming 380wtq on a speed six with an intake and no fuel pump internals. they just do glorified ots maps and blow shit up

[Motocooney]

I'm on it. I really want to get this thing running right.
Thanks so much. I figured based on the tune that Ptuning was a joke. Hopefully they know how to build an engine!

[Brian MP5T]

So Stupid Question.

Did you turn on the AEM?

When you cycle the key make sure it does not read "Off"

I have three friends who didn't fully read the manual. By default, it is Off.

80% DC is a lot. That shiould keep the wastegate closed unless it is hooked up wrong.

[Motocooney]

Yea I turned it on. I've actually tried putting the A setting to the same as the B to see if it makes a difference, which it does. Which leads me to believe that the tru boost might be fucked.

I turned it off until I can do some logs and get it figured out. Which should be wastegate ßpri g pressure. It hits 7psi ish. Which seems kinda low. I'm trying to find out what the wastegate spring is on this turbo ATP gt3071. It seems like it'd be higher than 7 psi doesn't it.

Logs tonight hopefully. You guys have me scared now thàt something's fucked up lol

I think the tune just sucks big time. I need to scale the MAF I'm sure.

If a boost leak test reveals no leaks, what else would keep this turbo from making as much boost as I want?

[Motocooney]

Something just occurred to me!!!!

When I did the boost leak test, I had the ignition turned on and was using the Tru Boost gauge to monitor how must psi I was pushing.
The solenoid for the Tru Boost was clicking the whole time (functioning properly)
And allowed me to push 22-23 psi into the system.
I could've pushing more but figured that was good enough.
It reached 22ish and slowly bled out. Like I would expect.
The test was performed from the charge pipe coming off the compressor.

So....this means that it's not the tru boost that's keeping me from achieving solid boost pressure.

Could it be the wastegate?
Or maybe the turbo?

The only other things it could be are something with ignition
The plugs, coil packs or the timing map.
Or it's fueling. Bad pump or shitty fueling map.
Although I find it hard to believe the previous owner wouldve been happy with the car for the last 2 years since it was built and tuned at Ptuning. Ya know?

I should add that he drove the car for the last month with 2 CELs. P2097 and 02195. Both were fixed with a new o2 sensor, plugs and purge valve.
He said he didn't boost it during this time but who knows.

Any thoughts? Thanks!!!!

[LumberJack]

Well after reading this entire thread this morning, it has come to my conclusion that...

A) Donate no more free info will be given
B) Stop being a lazy fuck ATR takes 30min to get from Cobb after requesting download
C) Stop beating on the car until you get atr and can even check the boost targets, Afr, etc


Anywho, have a great day brownie

[snailD]

Originally Posted by LumberJack Well after reading this entire thread this morning, it has come to my conclusion that... A) Donate no more free info will be given B) Stop being a lazy fuck ATR takes 30min to get from Cobb after requesting download C) Stop beating on the car until you get atr and can even check the boost targets, Afr, etc Anywho, have a great day brownie

problem is his tune is locked and cant open it, i think he already has atr

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by snailD problem is his tune is locked and cant open it, i think he already has atr

He's already said he hasn't downloaded atr, and also said he thinks the map may be locked. He need's to figure these things out asap. I figured spending money on making your car run proper and not blowing a built motor would be more important than all new wheels, tires, and suspension. OP has great priorities

[Motocooney]

Holy cow!

Okay. I posted this lastnight. About 12 hours ago.
Not sure how I'm coming across as lazy?!

I'm at work now. Haven't driven the car since I posted.
Ate is downloaded and I said I would have logs tonight.
I'm brainstorming now at work to figure it out. If u don't wanna help don't.
That's okay. I'm not expecting someone to fix my car. Ill do that.
Just throwing ideas out there.

Thanks

I'm on it.

FYI. I ordered wheels, suspension etc before I even picked the car up.
In hindsight. Not the best idea. Lol.

[Motocooney]

Didn't mean to come across as a dick!

I will donate tonight.

Thanks so much for the help so far.

I read my last post and realized it seemed a bit snippy. Lol

Sorry about that

[Motocooney]

Well just got home to take a look at this map....to bad the MICRO USB to USB cable I just bought wont connect to the AP lol

Mini USB is different apparently. Oops. Try again.

[Vader]

If you have a PS3, just use the controller charge cable.

Same shit.

[Motocooney]

Posted some short logs. I let off as soon as the car felt hesitant.

Any thoughts?
Pressure from the HPFP seems low during boost right?

thanks!!!!

[snailD]

first log is of nothing, second log is locked from viewing

[Motocooney]

Sorry about that. Try it now. They should both work.

Just short little pulls in 3rd.

[Hush]

Looks like the hpfp is failing. Barely held 600 psi at WOT, should be over 1600 psi.

[snailD]

what he said, you do that any more and you will blow ur car up