09 Built Big Turbo MS3 not running right.....stuttering under WOT

[Matrix311]

Originally Posted by snailD what he said, you do that any more and you will blow ur car up

Agreed replace the pump ASAP

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[Motocooney]

Okay, that's what I thought.

Is that the ONLY thing it could be is the pump itself? Can it be rebuilt?

It's less than 2 years old.

I mean I realize the proof is in the log but is there any way to test the pump to make sure its not a bad connection, fuel pressure regulator, in tank pump or injectors or something else.

If not, I'll be ordering a pump.

Thanks!!!

[Motocooney]

So I need to buy a stock HPFP and Autotech(or equivalent) internals correct.

thanks

[SpeedRebirth]

You need to take the pump out and take a look at the internals and the inside of the pump. Take pics and post. How sure are you that you in fact have aftermarket internals installed now?

[Motocooney]

Thx for the quick reply. I wanna get whatever I need ordered.

I have documentation from Ptuning for the install.

Could it be possible that I just need to install new autotech internals or do you think the pump itself is done. It's just mechanical right? Could it be the spill valve or a connection?

Is it normal for the internals to fail and the pump itself be fine?
I will do what you say. I will take it out and post pics.

Thanks

[Jansi]

You could have all the documentation in the world but not have whats documented in the car. The prev owner could of taken the internals out (why? IDK)..... Just a wild thought.

Im not sure what your income is and if money is a problem but like the other guys said, remove the pump, inspect and then spend your money.

[Motocooney]

Money isn't an issue as much as time is.
If I'm gonna pull the pump out and apart, I'd like to have internals on hand to replace with ya know.

I've been searching but what components can fail on the pump itself?
Seals. If I order autotech internals, do they come with all that's needed to make the pump like new again. I can't tell from the photos.

Thx

[Motocooney]

Previous owner says its a PT Performance HPFP with "basic upgrade" internals.

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by Motocooney Previous owner says its a PT Performance HPFP with "basic upgrade" internals.

The version 2 internals by ptp are not so bad. The v1 seem to shit the bed. I had 1000 miles on my v1 internals and they took a shit.

@phate; has my v2 and i believe they are still running strong.

[Jansi]

Originally Posted by Motocooney Money isn't an issue as much as time is. If I'm gonna pull the pump out and apart, I'd like to have internals on hand to replace with ya know. I've been searching but what components can fail on the pump itself? Seals. If I order autotech internals, do they come with all that's needed to make the pump like new again. I can't tell from the photos. Thx

There a few things that can be wrong with your pump. YOU REALLY NEED TO REMOVE YOUR SHIT AND INSPECT IT! All we can do is speculate (already done) and you will spend your money on parts you might not even need. IMO you can have bad internals that finally decided to take the shit or bad spill valve (maybe he ran corn?) or god knows what...

No one is going to really know untill you cover the basic stuff I.E. remove yo shitzz to rule out a few possibilities so you can have your car back.

[phate]

Originally Posted by StayBroke The version 2 internals by ptp are not so bad. The v1 seem to shit the bed. I had 1000 miles on my v1 internals and they took a shit. @phate; has my v2 and i believe they are still running strong.

That set of PTP's lasted ~20 miles before they seized. Switched to Autotechs and never looked back.

[Matrix311]

I've been running ptp internals in my car since 2009 and still running strong with my big turbo. Rarely do they fall below 1700 @ wot. I've been happy with mine.

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[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by phate That set of PTP's lasted ~20 miles before they seized. Switched to Autotechs and never looked back.

You fucking serious? They were straight from the man him self.

Wow oh wow

[phate]

Originally Posted by StayBroke You fucking serious? They were straight from the man him self. Wow oh wow

lol, yeah. I couldn't get the piston out of the barrel (they were completely seized), so I had to destroy the piston retainer to get them out of the nut. Luckily, I had another pump lying around so I had donor parts.

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by phate lol, yeah. I couldn't get the piston out of the barrel (they were completely seized), so I had to destroy the piston retainer to get them out of the nut. Luckily, I had another pump lying around so I had donor parts.

Damn i would have called him and got ANOTHER set lmao.

[Motocooney]

Cool thanks dudes

I'm gonna pull it tonight and post pics.
What exactly am I looking for?
Scored walls?

I think pressure is fine at idle (400ish) and its fine while cruising.
Ill log it tonight. Idle I mean. No more wot. Lol.

[Nitr0EngiE]

I love how everyone's answer is get an etune instead of troubleshooting. Does the turbo grind when you sign wheel by hand

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE I love how everyone's answer is get an etune instead of troubleshooting. Does the turbo grind when you sign wheel by hand

Ill be checking shaft play tonight as well. Only had the car since Friday. Haven't had a chance to really dig into it. My guess is the turbo is fine. Part throttle feels great. I think the turbo want to boost but there isn't enough fuel for the engine to make it boost

[Motocooney]

As far as recommendations for an Etune.....the original tune couldve been amazing (not likely) but it was 2.5 years ago. In my experience these types if cars aren't "set it and forget it"
Tunes need to be touched up here and there.
Of course I know I'm preaching to choir. Lol. You guys know your shit it seems. Which is a refreshing change of pace from the Evo world.
So as soon às its running right, it will be tuned properly

[StayBroke]

BTW, you can get the pump out in about 30min. You really dont have to remove all the shit in the how-to's. You seem like you have common sense so you will figure it out.

[Nitr0EngiE]

I highly recommend removing battery box when taking hard line off especially for installing the pump out cost me hours once because I did not want to remove the battery can be done in 3 minutes

[snailD]

it just makes it easier taking out the battery and tip but i usually just leave it all in place

[Motocooney]

.

[Motocooney]

Pics soon

[Motocooney]

Got it

[Motocooney]

Alright.

Got the pump out, took it apart, put it back together and put it back in. lol

Things to note....The internals were dirty as fuck. I cant think of a reason they would get so sludged up...I only took one pic of this.

The button retainer that PTP uses was loose as hell Like a mm of play. I cant imagine thats good. They state in their internals installation instructions that the button retainer must have no play.
This is a hpfp built by them, assembled by them and sent out by them.
And the retainer was loose. Im guessing its been loose ever since it was installed on the car.
I've talked further with the previous owner and he says that he's always noticed a bit of hesitation under wot, low/rough idle and irratic accleration. HMMM i wonder what was causing that?

Well, here are the pics. Let me know what you guys think I should do. The pump itself seemed fine, I didnt notice any damage at all, I mean the internals are the only moving parts except for the spring which is... a spring. It seemed springy enough to me.
[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

I couldnt get any good pics of the inside bore of the other internal piece(dont know what its called, the thing the shaft slides in and out of lol) but it was scored in the same way as the shaft/plunger. Do you thing the loose retainer button is to blame? It was basically being rattled back and forth by the cam instead of a steady, solid motion ya know?
[IMG][/IMG]

The previous owner seems to think he can get the pump warrantied or at least the internals replaced. I doubt it but I will certainly let him try. This pump was bought in late 2010. There are a string of threads about failed PTP HPFPs from this time. Either way, I just want to get the car running how its supposed to.

Thanks for the help

[mxlplx71]

your shaft looks fucked
like .... no its just fucked

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by mxlplx71 your shaft looks fucked like .... no its just fucked

hahah thats what i thought. I've never dealt with one of these type of pumps before but in general, scoring is bad. So, can I just get new internals for this thing or what?

[phate]

Clean everything in the pump body. Break it down completely and blast it with brake parts cleaner. Throw in a new set of internals and you should be set.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by phate Clean everything in the pump body. Break it down completely and blast it with brake parts cleaner. Throw in a new set of internals and you should be set.

By break it down completely, do you mean fuel lines, spill valve and that little cover on the opposite end?

I was gonna clean the spill valve but after I saw the condition of the internals I figured I had found the culprit.

Or do you mean disassemble same as I did tonight?

Thanks man

[mxlplx71]

Originally Posted by Motocooney By break it down completely, do you mean fuel lines, spill valve and that little cover on the opposite end? I was gonna clean the spill valve but after I saw the condition of the internals I figured I had found the culprit. Or do you mean disassemble same as I did tonight? Thanks man

Everything you can take out of the pump

[snailD]

what phate says. lots of scoring on the shaft es no bueno

[rolanblack]

Where are you located?This way others can see where you are from an get iin touch with your fellow Nator bbrothers/ sisters. Look for the Nator national section

[mxlplx71]

donate and change your avatar, PLEASE

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by mxlplx71 donate and change your avatar, PLEASE

I did donate.....I will change my avatar. I hate that picture lol

[mxlplx71]

cool, you could also maybe edit your location

[Motocooney]

I forgot to add that when I started the car after re-installing the hpfp, I had a CEL P0091.
Low pressure regulator circuit or something.

I cleared it and it didnt come back. I let the car idle for about 10 minutes and went for a 10 minute easy cruise and it hasnt come back.

The clip connector is secure on the spill valve. I was logging fuel pressure for the first 10 minutes of idle and it finally settled right around 375psi.

Don't worry about it?

I pulled the coil packs for the first 10 or so cranks to build fuel pressure (I know realize I couldve just put the pedal to the floor)

[Motocooney]

Autotech internals ordered from CTS
I'm extremely excited to see what this car can do with proper fueling.
Assuming that's what the problem is. I sure hope so.
Thanks so much for helping the new guy out.
Great first impression from mazdaspeedforums.

[Jarods7920]

And who said check your fuel pump and I was told it was ok....lulz. Glad you found your issue.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 And who said check your fuel pump and I was told it was ok....lulz. Glad you found your issue.

Damnit I knew I'd get called on my shit for that lol

I was using th AP to monitor FP pressure (not logging just realtime) I didn't have the cable and hasn't yet downloaded ATR or ap manager. The ap has a max value on whatever you are monitoring. So I selected hpfp actual pressure and did a pull. After, I looked and it said the max I had hit was 1700psi. I just assumed that max was hit during wot. Oops.
Obviously after I really logged it, the only time it hits 1700psi is right before it starts making boost. Right before it drops to fucking 600psi. Stupid. That's my excuse.

Yes, you were all right about the pump from the start