09 Built Big Turbo MS3 not running right.....stuttering under WOT

[Jarods7920]

Right or wrong, glad it's fixed! I just had very similar symptoms at one point in time. Even 1700 on upgraded internals is low for Max pressure.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by Jarods7920 Right or wrong, glad it's fixed! I just had very similar symptoms at one point in time. Even 1700 on upgraded internals is low for Max pressure.

Well, its not fixed yet. I really really hope that's what the problem is. Or I just wasted $300 lol
Based on the looks of the internals, that SHOULD be the problem.
We'll see, tracking says I will be installing them next wednesday night (after the kids go to bed of course)

I just want the thing to run right, so I can tune it and drive really fucking fast haha..

I sold my STI 2 years ago and have been putzing around in a lifted cherokee. I just want to go fast....Ive had to Grandma drive this ms3 for the last week(ever since I bought it) and its kind of disappointing.

From what Ive heard, they can be pretty quick. I hope to find out soon

[Motocooney]

So get this shit.

I ordered autotech internals...they will be here next Wednesday.
The previous owner called me and said he got PTperformance(or whatever theyre called now) to warranty the fuel pump!
I'm sending mine in and they're sending me a new fully built pump

So...I'd probably be better off selling the new autotechs here on the forums than sending them back to CTS and paying a 20% restocking fee and shipping. Right?

[Jarods7920]

Yep! That's correct!

[phate]

Originally Posted by Motocooney So get this shit. I ordered autotech internals...they will be here next Wednesday. The previous owner called me and said he got PTperformance(or whatever theyre called now) to warranty the fuel pump! I'm sending mine in and they're sending me a new fully built pump So...I'd probably be better off selling the new autotechs here on the forums than sending them back to CTS and paying a 20% restocking fee and shipping. Right?

Your best bet is installing the autotechs and selling those PTP liabilities.

[Jarods7920]

Originally Posted by phate Your best bet is installing the autotechs and selling those PTP liabilities.

I have a ptp pump that I have ran for years and its just fine....

[mxlplx71]

i bet dirty fingers is a likely cause

[blackmicamps6]

because @phate; doesn't know to wear gloves and properly install internals? lol.

[phate]

Originally Posted by blackmicamps6 because @phate; doesn't know to wear gloves and properly install internals? lol.

I actually did for the ptp's since gloves were supplied, lol. Why can I install autotechs a hundred times over without gloves, and encounter no issues. Yet the ptp's only lasted 20 miles.

[taf0422]

I know this doesnt mean much but my PTP's have been in since 35k miles.. Now 104k with 3 different turbos and a built motor. Still going strong. Some get lucky. Lol

[mxlplx71]

Originally Posted by phate I actually did for the ptp's since gloves were supplied, lol. Why can I install autotechs a hundred times over without gloves, and encounter no issues. Yet the ptp's only lasted 20 miles.

i was referring to ops messed up ones,

[phate]

Originally Posted by taf0422 I know this doesnt mean much but my PTP's have been in since 35k miles.. Now 104k with 3 different turbos and a built motor. Still going strong. Some get lucky. Lol

True. I've installed other ptp's that worked fine. Just way too high of risk (IMO) to run ptp's.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by mxlplx71 i bet dirty fingers is a likely cause

It was assembled by PTP. That's a shame.
You dont think the loose retainer on the spring end was responsible?

Hopefully the new pump is better than this one.

They actually have a new website.
hpfpupgrade.com


The name sucks but the site seems pretty legit.

I really cant turn down a free full replacement. We'll see, maybe I should hold on to the Autotechs for a little while?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Motocooney It was assembled by PTP. That's a shame. You dont think the loose retainer on the spring end was responsible? Hopefully the new pump is better than this one. They actually have a new website. Welcome | HPFPUpgrade.com The name sucks but the site seems pretty legit. I really cant turn down a free full replacement. We'll see, maybe I should hold on to the Autotechs for a little while?

Now they have the best of the best for BMW it seems as well. Apparently they power the world's highest hp cars for Mazda, Audi, VW already.

N54-55 Fuel System Upgrade | HPFPUpgrade.com

[Motocooney]

Well, I got the new HPFP in. Fuel pressure is great. The car actually pulls now. Still feels slow as hell. So I boost leak tested it AGAIN.

I can get it to hold 25 psi, but as soon as I stop pushing air into it, it starts dropping pretty quickly.
I'm assuming its just seeping past the throttle plate correct? Or should it hold the prssure for a bit?

So, it will hit 20.7 psi in second and then only 18psi in 3rd and less in 4th?! wtf
Thats backwards right?
Here are a few short logs but I think at this point, it's 100% shitty tune. So I'm in contact with PERMtuning to get that taken care of.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J4...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J4...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7J4...it?usp=sharing

[Motocooney]

There is no KR, but WTF is up with the timing?

Thats crazy low right?

I'm looking at the Cobb stage2 OTS map on ATR and the timing curve looks quite a bit higher.

The parameter being logged with the AP is "spark advance"

So are the values I'm seeing, the timing that's being added/taken away from the base ignition?
confusing.

Is negative timing during WOT normal?

[skiptowncat]

Originally Posted by Motocooney There is no KR, but WTF is up with the timing? Thats crazy low right? I'm looking at the Cobb stage2 OTS map on ATR and the timing curve looks quite a bit higher. The parameter being logged with the AP is "spark advance" So are the values I'm seeing, the timing that's being added/taken away from the base ignition? confusing. Is negative timing during WOT normal?

No, not looked at the logs but it should be tapering up towards redline. Sometimes on a BT negative timing can be used to quicken spool time.

[Neubreed]

the spark advance should be the actual timing set in ATR, it shows BTDC. out of curiosity, have you tried to run a Cobb OTS map and see how the car reacts to that? also, i see that you swapped out the dual port for the stock bpv, ive heard the stockers can leak above 17psi, so maybe thats the reason for the boost not holding, idk. im having trouble viewing the files on my computer and cant use excel on my iFail.

also, you can load the .csv excel file directly into the thread using the attachments button(looks like a paperclip), that way it makes it easier for anyone who tries to view the log.

[Motocooney]

Originally Posted by Neubreed the spark advance should be the actual timing set in ATR, it shows BTDC. out of curiosity, have you tried to run a Cobb OTS map and see how the car reacts to that? also, i see that you swapped out the dual port for the stock bpv, ive heard the stockers can leak above 17psi, so maybe thats the reason for the boost not holding, idk. im having trouble viewing the files on my computer and cant use excel on my iFail. also, you can load the .csv excel file directly into the thread using the attachments button(looks like a paperclip), that way it makes it easier for anyone who tries to view the log.

I'm actually in the process of putting together a base map using Cobb stage 2+ map

I swapped the stock BPV on just to see if the dual port was causing issues.
During the boost test, the stock BPV held 25ish psi. But slowly leaked out. How long should I expect the system too hold boost when doing a boost leak test?

I have since swapped the dual port back on. The problem is the tune, I'm sure of it. I can hit 20psi in 2nd but not 3rd,4th etc. just doesn't make sense

I'm getting rid if the truboost and just gonna use a 3 port and a regular boost gauge.
I don't like that the truboost and ecu aren't connected.
I would imagine the ecu is way more capable of controlling boost than the truboost.
Plus I don't like digital boost gauges.

Thx for tip on posting logs...I wasn't sure how people were doing it.

[Neubreed]

as far the ebcs goes, i would get a stratified one and pair it with the stratified boost dial for a nice consistent curve, just my .02$. i wonder, if for some unknown reason they lowered the boost targets with each gear, back asswards of how the cars are from the factory. idk why they would do this but who the fuck knows. i would think that once you pressurize the intake system, pending no leaks, it would hold as long as you have a check valve installed where you put the air in at. you might get some leakage past the tb but ill let the experts elaborate on the system holding pressure. when the pressure starts to drop off during the boost leak test, do you hear any whistling? idk how, but maybe you could put some smoke into the intake to make the leak more visable, if you do have one that is. good luck.

[Motocooney]

Update:

Finally got a base map flashed and the 3-port hooked up.

CEL P0016 crank/cam sensor correlation

Might not be related but fuck man.....not sure where to start.

Dont want to just buy crank and cam sensors and have that not be the problem.

I'm trying not to believe that the timing chain jumped or stretched.

The car is running fine. Idles fine. I havent yet gotten on it cause I was gonna let the fuel trims settle and do the MAF Calc. But now with this fucking CEL.

I really wish it was running poorly or there was some sign of a problem besides the CEL. But there isnt.

I checked the chain through the oil fill and there is maybe 3mm of slack up and down between the gears. Seems okay.

[Neubreed]

on the gm 3.6 litre in the acadia/enclave/outlook/traverse, the timing chains are known to stretch. they throw a cam and crank correlation code but drive fine. we would see 2-3 a week at the dealer i was at. just some information for you. i know this is a mazda and completely different platform but cars can stretch timing chains and run fine.

[Motocooney]

Well as much as it pains me, I'm dropping it off at the dealership tomorrow so they can confirm what I already suspect.
It'll cost $90 which is what I was gonna go waste on a new cam sensor.
We'll see. What a fucking bummer.

At some point, this car WILL be running right and WILL be fast as hell. Lol
That's what I keep telling myself.

Thx

[Neubreed]

i hate to say it, but from following your posts around here, there is a major reason the previous owner dumped this car. maybe he knew or had suspected it but either way best of luck to you.

[Motocooney]

Yea, I know. Oh well live and learn I guess.
I will say, I've had it for a month.

Logged it a ton. And the map that was on it when I bought it didn't knock at all.
It felt a little slow to me. Considering the part that are on it but the tune didn't seem dangerously aggressive at all.

May be just coincidence but the cel didn't come on until the same day that I switched out tge truboost for a 3 port and flashed a 0% WGDC base map.

I haven't given it more than 30% throttle since then. Certainly no boost.
So I don't think the timing issue was caused by the base map ya know.

I did notice with base map, I'm seeing a ton of consistent part throttle tip-in knock retard. 7-8.
Which seems to be totally normal with these cars.

But on the Ptuning map, there was none. Maybe .35 every now and then.

They built the car and tuned it. Could it have been tuned out of time? So now that its running a normal stage 2 ots timing map, it's all fucked up?

I know that's a shot in the dark but is it possible?

[Neubreed]

if you think its tune related, go back to the ptuning and see what it does. the reason for the lack of pt kr and it feeling slow is they probaly had the timing backed way off. only way ive seen the pt kr go away on genone cars is with the timing backed off, there maybe other ways but the general concenus is genones have pt kr and its normal. Lex explained it in a thread that he believes mazda changed something at 08.5 with the algerithims.

[Motocooney]

Lol. I have problem with that too.

I can reflash the Ptuning map but I can't log it. I updated the firmware on the accessport before flashing base map. Now when I flash Ptuning map and log. It just throws crazy random values. 10,000psi hpfp pressure at idle for example.

It's because the map was created with old firmware. The fix is to resave the map in atr
But I can't because its locked and I can't even open it in atr.

If I could somehow go back the older firmware update it might work.

[Neubreed]

i do believe there is a way to go back updates on the ap. it would be in AP manager, under the firmware tab. search around here, ive seen it brought up before.

[Motocooney]

I searched. The map needs to be resaved in accesstuner
I call Ptuning and asked if they could send me a resaved copy.

I reflashed the Ptuning map anyhow and the light came back on plus a p0245 turbo wastegate low. Lol

I hooked the truboost back up to flash the old map. Now it has a code cause the solenoid isn't plugged in to the harness. Stupid.

Reflashing base map, hooking 3-port back up. Back to square one.