2009 Internals

[zx2man]

Soooo As for I know, I have not seen any 09 ms3 blown engine on the forums, and if there is..well its sure as hell ALOT lower than 07-08's...I hear stories about diamond cut rods-tighter tolerances........any info on this???.......

[cpolly69]

i think it's just internet rumor
btw these changes were supposedly on 08.5's and up and if you want to see a blown one of those search spoolme
you prob don't see them b/c they haven't had enough time to accumulate miles yet and blow up, just wait they're comin!

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by zx2man I hear stories about diamond cut rods

LMFAO
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[ms3077]

If there was an actual design flaw or whatever I think there would be a lot more of us 07-08’s blowing up. My self and others have beaten our cars far too hard to concede the motor is weak and or has some sort of flaw in its design, etc. I’ve broken a lot of shit on this car but the motor has shown no indication (s) that it’s even remotely damaged in any way shape or form.

Keeping in mind I drive this car very hard in extremely hot weather, bouncing off the rev limiter, wide open throttle runs daily / all the time, hard launches, etc, etc. You name it I probably put this motor through it. How many blown motors cases have there been reported so far? Like 20 or so?

And how many 07-08 MS3’s are out there? At least 10,000 in the U.S. correct? Didn’t Mazda say there was to be 5,000 MS3 per year for 2years? Anyway the point is that the actually percentage of “blown motor” cases is very slim representing less then 1% of all 07-08 MS3’s. It’s been blown out of proportion.

[rodrigo]

07s more miles = more blow ups
08s lil less = ^^^ not as many maybe???
08.5 a lil less than that = even less blow ups??? im seeing a pattern
09 a lil less than that = hmmm....not too many?? low miles..hmmmm...how odd
10 even less = none have blown??? must be titanium rods......hmmmmm or wait...lowest miles


riiiiiiiiiiiiiing. schools out!

[madvillain]

ROFLCOPTER on diamond cut rods..

Fucking Brian spreading these '09 invincibility rumors.. it's all a crock of shit

[holeinmypocket]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 i think it's just internet rumor btw these changes were supposedly on 08.5's and up and if you want to see a blown one of those search spoolme you prob don't see them b/c they haven't had enough time to accumulate miles yet and blow up, just wait they're comin!

lmao

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 07s more miles = more blow ups 08s lil less = ^^^ not as many maybe??? 08.5 a lil less than that = even less blow ups??? im seeing a pattern 09 a lil less than that = hmmm....not too many?? low miles..hmmmm...how odd 10 even less = none have blown??? must be titanium rods......hmmmmm or wait...lowest miles riiiiiiiiiiiiiing. schools out!

Exactly!

And let’s not ignore the fact that back in 07’ people knew nothing of the low rpm / load condition or other possible theories for what might cause the motor to throw a rod.

As time passes people are obviously becoming more and more educated and hence the cases of blown motors not being as prevalent as before.

[zx2man]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 07s more miles = more blow ups 08s lil less = ^^^ not as many maybe??? 08.5 a lil less than that = even less blow ups??? im seeing a pattern 09 a lil less than that = hmmm....not too many?? low miles..hmmmm...how odd 10 even less = none have blown??? must be titanium rods......hmmmmm or wait...lowest miles riiiiiiiiiiiiiing. schools out!

LOL................ I hear you Lenny..Ive only been on this forum for little bit, But have come to agree with what you say about 99.99% of time....But I dont know about that miles being the total answer. Looking @ blown engine threads ive seen substantial amount of those with very low miles. So I dont think its cut and dry like that. I believe ms3077 had a point about people not knowing any better in 07, Also alot of people were just throwin parts on thier cars and conducting no tuning whatsoever either, I think that is more of a factor. IT does make sence though, that putting more miles *stress* on a Fail setup will product shitty results faster-enough said..I dont know it all..Just was carious about the "rumors" on the newer speeds. Thank you.

[felt]

Originally Posted by zx2man I believe ms3077 had a point about people not knowing any better in 07, Also alot of people were just throwin parts on thier cars and conducting no tuning whatsoever either.

You do realize that 99% of blown ms3 motors do have a tune...Either Cobb AP or standback or ECUedit.... Compare that to stock ecu tune = stock tune is safest. Some may not agree and this just a theory of mine.

[zx2man]

*edit* Thank you for the Information.

[IshiKage]

there is a guy down the street from me with an 09 and blew it with intake, and gutted cats. STOCK TUNE

i still think the turbo being too undersized for our motor is one of the main causes for blows

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by felt You do realize that 99% of blown ms3 motors do have a tune...Either Cobb AP or standback or ECUedit.... Compare that to stock ecu tune = stock tune is safest. Some may not agree and this just a theory of mine.

mostly cobb ap & ots map doesn't match their needs...

[Lex]

There's another variable - people learned. People learned they needed a fuel pump and people learned they needed a tune. People learned the dreaded acronym KR.

[Syd_Chrome]

Originally Posted by ms3077 If there was an actual design flaw or whatever I think there would be a lot more of us 07-08’s blowing up. My self and others have beaten our cars far too hard to concede the motor is weak and or has some sort of flaw in its design, etc. I’ve broken a lot of shit on this car but the motor has shown no indication (s) that it’s even remotely damaged in any way shape or form. Keeping in mind I drive this car very hard in extremely hot weather, bouncing off the rev limiter, wide open throttle runs daily / all the time, hard launches, etc, etc. You name it I probably put this motor through it. How many blown motors cases have there been reported so far? Like 20 or so? And how many 07-08 MS3’s are out there? At least 10,000 in the U.S. correct? Didn’t Mazda say there was to be 5,000 MS3 per year for 2years? Anyway the point is that the actually percentage of “blown motor” cases is very slim representing less then 1% of all 07-08 MS3’s. It’s been blown out of proportion.

The blown ones weren't driven like they were stolen from day, that's the problem.
Drive it hard all the time - it'll keep it happy.

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by zx2man Soooo As for I know, I have not seen any 09 ms3 blown engine on the forums, and if there is..well its sure as hell ALOT lower than 07-08's...I hear stories about diamond cut rods-tighter tolerances........any info on this???.......

you have now doomed yourself by saying this and everyone else...watch out for kr knocking on your door.

[rossisboss07]

I'z gotz oh nein ... and I beat the SHIT out of it all day long have 16,500 mi. on it now and so far so good... stock shifter bushings are getting a little worn out... hehe... also should probably change trans fluid after all the grinding I did when learning... first manual car that I've attempted to drive fast... last one was an old F150, completely different.

I just make sure to keep low end load off of it as I was warned in online forums like this one, and also don't push it past 5600 RPM's when WOT... idk, I'm hoping she holds together well enough for me to get to the modding stage, or to sell it for an Evo X or something AWD when they get down in price. if I blow well then I'll learn one very important lesson... don't buy a mazda turbo motor.

[IshiKage]

on stock tune with atleast intake and tp, push that shit to 6k.

[zx2man]

Originally Posted by taf0422 you have now doomed yourself by saying this and everyone else...watch out for kr knocking on your door.

LOL no!!!!!!!!!........................ Heres me knocking on wood " dining room table" for all you 09 ms3 owners out there, nothing but luv for ya....as for knock retard last time I check I was at a nice healthy 0...tuned by Tim Baily @ Surgeline.....man knows his stuff

[IshiKage]

fuck KR. the day i stopped monitoring that shit, my car became enjoyable to drive again.

thats why i wont buy a dashhawk. AP was enough and i was tired of watching my AP more than the road, worrying.

if im going to blow, so be it...

same goes for everyone else

[banditscout]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 fuck KR. the day i stopped monitoring that shit, my car became enjoyable to drive again. thats why i wont buy a dashhawk. AP was enough and i was tired of watching my AP more than the road, worrying. if im going to blow, so be it... same goes for everyone else

Well said good sir, well said.

[darth vader]

Yurp but, that's what staged alerts are for. I have one set for RPM (shift light) and one for max boost (@19). I don't have to drive off the road and I can easily back out when a giant light flashes on my DH. I have several other parameters set to monitor but, I have never seen KR on this car, running 94 octane all the time.

well i have near 60 WOT runs with my car at 380+ whp and it still runs like new. I have an 09

[Lex]

I "WOT" my car everytime I drive it several times ... that's where the fun in having it is.

[wankular]

2009 owners are just better drivers.

[rossisboss07]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 on stock tune with atleast intake and tp, push that shit to 6k.

5600... no mods (yet), and the dyno sheet from CP-E's dyno day shows me for sure that there is a large lack of power past that number... so I shift and get power not to mention you can feel the lack of continued acceleration too.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by Lex There's another variable - people learned. People learned they needed a fuel pump and people learned they needed a tune. People learned the dreaded acronym KR.

Yeah this is pretty much exactly what I said earlier: But you get like 4 "thank yous" and I get "none" lol

But yes its pretty much common sense.

Originally Posted by ms3077 Exactly! And let’s not ignore the fact that back in 07’ people knew nothing of the low rpm / load condition or other possible theories for what might cause the motor to throw a rod. As time passes people are obviously becoming more and more educated and hence the cases of blown motors not being as prevalent as before.

[dizzin9]

Originally Posted by ms3077 Yeah this is pretty much exactly what I said earlier: But you get like 4 "thank yous" and I get "none" lol

there ya goooo

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ms3077 Yeah this is pretty much exactly what I said earlier: But you get like 4 "thank yous" and I get "none" lol But yes its pretty much common sense.

There - don't cry.

[ms3077]

Originally Posted by Lex There - don't cry.

Just bored and joking but thanks anyway, it’s not like the “thank you / groan” gimmick actually matters anyway. We both were just stating the obvious, well not so obvious for some I suppose. You just stated what I basically said already in simpler / easier to understand terms I'm guessing. Bottom line is that people are becoming more educated as to what can cause potential dangerous condition (s) with this car, hence fewer problems.

[darth vader]

Har, "educated"we've heard a dozen possible explanations/theories/blue skying for blowups and none seem conclusive. To review a few of the past gems:

Pinched rings, PCV induced oil hydrolock, piston siezing, rod fatigue, not enough WOT pounding, KR, batch-production problems, No tune, Pro tune, Cobb AP issues, Standback issues, fuel injector spray pattern not cooling the pistons, MAF messups, Keebler Elves in the combustion chamber.

So, for all the "education" we got about ZZB, still 99.9% of people are having a rockin' good time with their MS3 and not blowing up

[IshiKage]

MZR's destiny------------->zoom zoom Bang! Bow! Boom! Splat! Kaboom Kablaowie!

[Lex]

I'll break it down for you. 90% of blowups are user issues, error. 9% are bad motors from the factory. 1% are motors that legitimately blow due to power.

The main mode of failure are bent, then broken rods. Likely too much cylinder pressure along with some sweet shots of detonation. By the way, high load at low RPM promotes detonation and pre-ignition because the mixture in the cylinder is compressed for a relatively speaking much longer period of time.

[IshiKage]

<--------my avi says it best

[rossisboss07]

Originally Posted by Lex I'll break it down for you. 90% of blowups are user issues, error. 9% are bad motors from the factory. 1% are motors that legitimately blow due to power. The main mode of failure are bent, then broken rods. Likely too much cylinder pressure along with some sweet shots of detonation. By the way, high load at low RPM promotes detonation and pre-ignition because the mixture in the cylinder is compressed for a relatively speaking much longer period of time.

QFT... this pretty much sums up what I've come to believe.

jumping on these forums has already cleared up so many questions compared to M3F... just wish I could navigate as well lol

[darth vader]

No offense Lex, I know you're trying to work on this but 9% of the failed motors are "bad from the factory". First of all, how are they "bad from the factory" and c'mon now, even GM at it's worst, in the 350 diesel days didn't have engine failure rates that high. If it was that high, there'd have been a mass recall a long time ago, that's way over what any manufacturer or customer base would support for critical component failure.

Look at BMW's experience with the N54. A few engine failures (bearing shells) because of too high rpm and there's a big recall to fix the motors across the line (except Z3 and coupe) and a TSB and a letter warning owners not to exceed a certain rpm. That's the result of a hell of alot less then 9% failure rate.

[Lex]

^ Perhaps it was not stated correctly - let's call them the weak ones. At stock power they'd probably last a while but they're the first to go when the envelope gets pushed.

[felt]

Originally Posted by darth vader No offense Lex, I know you're trying to work on this but 9% of the failed motors are "bad from the factory". First of all, how are they "bad from the factory" and c'mon now, even GM at it's worst, in the 350 diesel days didn't have engine failure rates that high. If it was that high, there'd have been a mass recall a long time ago, that's way over what any manufacturer or customer base would support for critical component failure. Look at BMW's experience with the N54. A few engine failures (bearing shells) because of too high rpm and there's a big recall to fix the motors across the line (except Z3 and coupe) and a TSB and a letter warning owners not to exceed a certain rpm. That's the result of a hell of alot less then 9% failure rate.

Do not question Lex ever again.


I agree with darth.

[Lex]

Let me add to this. We have seen plenty of low compression failures as well. Some of these were stuck injectors, some were failing pumps, some early cars had fuel pump tsbs. The CX-7 has timing chain failures. We've seen oil rings get clogged and we've seen enough gunk buildup inside the DISI for it to be 25 years old.

All of these faults could contribute to a failure and ultimately can be traced back to design and manufacturing. Where do you draw that line and make a recall - especially if a stock car can statistically make it out of the warranty period without causing a loss to the company that is greater than the recall cost.

No manufacturer is immune to this and ultimately emissions and safety are their #1 concern. The rest is just a play on numbers.

Just trying to put things into a bit of a lighter perspective.

[darth vader]

I don't disregard your evidence, nor do I disagree with your contention that recall is a numbers game.

LOL, I like Porsche's approach to the direct injection gunk build up issue, oh, at first major service let's pull the cylinder heads and decarbonise everything...WTF, is it 1950 all over again?

Emissions is an engineering mandate, safety is a sales pitch. Ultimately, profitability is the manufacturer's number one concern. Designing and then building a shitty engine that pisses off everyone sure won't help that.