4inch core

[PurplFox]

Looking at trying my hand at getting China to build thicker core intercooler with requested fin patterns vs using the straight fins. This if i can get one would be the equivalent of a TR8l except 4 inches thick. Any thoughts on this. Or am i just pissing in the wind

[zenit]

pressure differential on oem tmic

Gains from changing intercoolers is a debatable topic.

Feel free to piss in the wind though, just post up your findings.

[PurplFox]

well the quote came back at $86 us. so basically why not. the idea is to have them use the louvered fin structure instead of the straight that the cx cores use. if i get multiple units the price would go down. I figure why not, a cheap but efective core would hit many in the right way especially in the southern states.

[zenit]

go for it!

pics plz.

[PurplFox]

here's the quote. waiting on reply about using the louvered fin structure as dense as possible in the core. we know the china stuff wont be super tight. I have to laugh though. In my process of looking into this i found a Audi performance vendor that uses the same design as i am putting together. cost was over $800 for a core alone.

Edit. this should be an easy swap for the cx core on the gen juan.

[anavrinIV]

Why 4" core? IMO unnecessary. Fit will be hard, hell it's hard with a 3" core at times. What does the extra thickness get you over just having a better fin design?

[PurplFox]

Well from the stand point of china core, the added thickness will improve cooling. at least that's my hope. this design should have characteristics of a tr8l. all in all the idea is a better cheap core option. hell, i might do a revision and have the cx core basically thickend and improved fin structure.

[WetzMS3]

$86 is the biggest red flag I have seen in a while.

[neganox]

INB4 tinfoil intercooler.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by neganox INB4 tinfoil intercooler.

inb4 catdickracing buys4"coresfor$86andresellsfor$600

[neganox]

inb4 sluntworksisontomyplan

[PurplFox]

you do realize that the cxracing core and kits come from there and can be had for dirt cheap. whats wrong with prototyping on the cheap. Will be finalizing drawings by the 15th including mounting fittings in the same location as cx kit.
worst case fun project fail.

[Crarrs]

I don't see much benefit to going this route. Most of the cooling with heat exchangers happens within the first 1 to 2 inches of thickness. Anything beyond that is just adding mass to the system to fend off heat soak in extreme situations. If you're just doing highway pulls on a stock turbo car, that's probably not an issue.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by zenit pressure differential on oem tmic Gains from changing intercoolers is a debatable topic. Feel free to piss in the wind though, just post up your findings.

Although this is a debatabel topic, going from TMIC to FMIC gains are had in certain areas such as overall hp supported (i,e, heat removal and pressure drop gains/airflow supported in higher HP setups) and removal of heatsoak potential, but...

Originally Posted by Crarrs I don't see much benefit to going this route. Most of the cooling with heat exchangers happens within the first 1 to 2 inches of thickness. Anything beyond that is just adding mass to the system to fend off heat soak in extreme situations. If you're just doing highway pulls on a stock turbo car, that's probably not an issue.

I tend to agree more with this statement as it relates to OPs idea. Thicker is not better beyond a point and after 2-3" you are done with measurable gains and instead you need more frontal surface area.

[PurplFox]

Dano, that's kinda the point. we don't have the available room for more frontal area. So as long as you don't overly restrict the core the additional surface area should help. Heat soak in the south and humid Houston hits quick. 80 amb = 90 iat = 115 bat egr disconnected 135-140 bat egr connected. i figure for the price it cant hurt to try.

[Dano]

maybe but a core from China may not be so good in the airflow/pressure drop area. In that case you are robbing Peter to pay Paul with a potential net loss vs gain.

better off spraying WMI or running an E blend to negate the power loss due to heat in the air charge.

[Matt@HTP]

I have wasted far too much time of my life trying to get something quality from China. Here is a pic of a 4" core we had made. Notice the high quality heat transferring junk inside it. This is from the same manufacturer as.......(very long time list).

Want a 4" core buy Vibrant p/n: 12837. You're welcome. It's from China too!

[dale_gribble]

Data always talks so it's up to you to document and show any gains. I am apprehensive about gains in this scenario. My guess is there will be no increase efficiency with added depth and possibly a loss in overall efficiency. The best intercooler is going to be as skinny as possible with as large of frontal surface area as possible. As you start to exchange this for depth, I am willing to bet heat transfer efficiency goes way down- because the ambient air is heating significantly as depth is added and travels further.

There is probably some research out there where a company or college kids ran some type of experiment of air to air heat exchanger with varied depths. Take one look at modern radiators and AC condensers and I think it's a pretty good indicator that depth doesn't do much. I am sure automakers would love to make the footprint of the condensers/radiators smaller.

[Matt@HTP]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Data always talks so it's up to you to document and show any gains. I am apprehensive about gains in this scenario. My guess is there will be no increase efficiency with added depth and possibly a loss in overall efficiency. The best intercooler is going to be as skinny as possible with as large of frontal surface area as possible. As you start to exchange this for depth, I am willing to bet heat transfer efficiency goes way down- because the ambient air is heating significantly as depth is added and travels further. There is probably some research out there where a company or college kids ran some type of experiment of air to air heat exchanger with varied depths. Take one look at modern radiators and AC condensers and I think it's a pretty good indicator that depth doesn't do much. I am sure automakers would love to make the footprint of the condensers/radiators smaller.

There are always huge trade off's with heat transfer and efficiency. Skinny and tall isn't best due to internal air distribution. Devise some trick way to make it work and you lose out in cost effectiveness, not to mention the real estate that would take up.

Thicker is not always better, but according to a major US manufacturer with data......efficiency diminishes significantly after 4.5" thick on an A2A & 6" thick on a W2A. Length plays a smaller roll as the first 1/3 of the intercooler does the most work. Now if you have a less dense internal fin count, then length will be more important.

[PurplFox]

Dale, I've seen the data if its this cheap to play like this i may have to see about one that can fit behind the crash bar and extend up. I'm not saying it will be grate but, could be fun none the less. From what I've observed the thick cores cant too tight of a fpi. If it is you will hurt heat transfer, but internally you want more than what they typically use in a china core.
its all for fun and data.
Know I'm thinking of a 2" core that can be stuffed behind the bar. ill get measurements and see what can be done.

[WetzMS3]

I'm all for testing a thicker core and have no knowledge to say if there are gains to be had or not. The point I was hinting at, is if you're testing a poor quality $86 china core at 4", you may not see gains that are possibly there on a core of higher quality 4" thick.

I imagine most cores sold by more reputable vendors on our platform have higher quality construction and may out perform the thicker core simply for that reason.

[PurplFox]

This is all in fun and to see how it would preform. Ultimately if i like how it works i would get with treadstone or purchase a Bellcore.


edit the cxracing core ic0058 is a china made core that works fairly well i just want a little different dimensions.

[anavrinIV]

extending up behind the crash bar won't get you any noticeable gains...no air flow and your air is entering and leaving the core at the bottom so most of your charge air won't be up there anyway.