BNR S3 exhaust housing bolts backing out/breaking/leaking thread

[Lex]

If you've had this problem, post up the information and let's see if we can identify some trends and address the issue. All gens obviously welcome!

Username:
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo:
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?):
Boost level you are running:
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?:
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc):
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?:
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:
How did you fix it?:

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Sloanek

Mileage on BNRS3 turbo:
4000 miles (1000 when it started to leak)

What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?):
Bolts on exhaust side and compressor side backed out causing a boost leak. After retorquing all bolts w/lock washers there was still a leak on the compressor side for unknown reason. (Will be taking off turbo this weekend to inspect it)

Boost level you are running:
22 psi

How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc):
Car is hardly in boost other than doing logs

Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?:
I did not retorque the bolts prior to failure

Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:
I added lock washers for all bolts on both sides.

How did you fix it?:
Not fixed yet, but will fix after I replace it with a new gtx3071 this weekend.

Before the problems I loved this turbo so much. The only reason why I am dropping the bnr and getting the gtx3071 was the way Bryan treated me over the phone when I called. He didn't have an open mind about the bolts on the compressor side causing the boost leak and just straight out denied it being a problem that could cause my boost leak.

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Himurax13
2000 miles
One of the bolt closest to the drainline/firewall backed out and the other one was loosely hanging with the plate.
Yes
20 tapering to 22.
Mostly DD, occasionaly canyons, tracked at Willow Springs, onramps with autority. several WOT logs.
No
No
Fixed by inserting cheap grade 5 stainless bolts from the bottom while still in the car. Had to use a dremmel to turn bolts into self tapping screws and then use the goodntight torque method. No leaks were detected and held for 4 months before pulling off car.

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MPS_Fan
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo:
1500 miles
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?):
Bolt in direction to firewall (directly besides coolant line) fell completely out and other bolt on same braket was loose.
One bolt in direction to motor broke when i tried to remove it. Got stuck in middle of threads, when i tried to srew in again (without any force) the head just fell off
Boost level you are running:
reverse tapper to 23psi (redline)
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?:
yes
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc):
street, sometimes highspeed runs for couple of minutes
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?:
No, but they are ok
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:
No
How did you fix it?:
Not fixed yet, will use high tensile bolts (8.8) and special washers:

Turbo has to get out to drill out the bolt, fuuuuuuuuuuck!

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Username: Paveltol
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo: 60 000 km
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?): one of the bolts holding the bracket and exhaust side together is backing out every ~5 000/10 000km. Once it caused the coolant line get burnt by the exhaust flame, the coolant started leaking hard. It took me 3 hours being 100 km away from the nearest town at 3 AM and -25C to try and fix the car to drive home without coolant and exhaust leak.
Boost level you are running: 1.1 Bar
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?: Yes
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc): Street/Highway
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?: No
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:No
How did you fix it?: I disassembled the old OEM turbo, took one of its bolts, and screwed it into the bnr with very small amount of loctite on the thread. 3000 km since then.. Next time I will put put locking washer.

I contacted Bryan a couple of times regarding that issue, he promised to send me some new caps, that are supposed to solve the issue. He never did.

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Username: jdw1
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo: ~15-20k
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?): not sure, one on the bracket
Boost level you are running: ~20psi
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?: Hell if I know
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc): Street DD but I beat on it some times
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?: yes
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?: no
How did you fix it?: new bolt and thread seal

[sloanek]

Sloanek

Mileage on BNRS3 turbo:
4000 miles (1000 when it started to leak)

What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?):
Bolts on exhaust side and compressor side backed out causing a boost leak. After retorquing all bolts w/lock washers there was still a leak on the compressor side for unknown reason. (Will be taking off turbo this weekend to inspect it)

Boost level you are running:
22 psi

How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc):
Car is hardly in boost other than doing logs

Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?:
I did not retorque the bolts prior to failure

Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:
I added lock washers for all bolts on both sides.

How did you fix it?:
Not fixed yet, but will fix after I replace it with a new gtx3071 this weekend.

Before the problems I loved this turbo so much. The only reason why I am dropping the bnr and getting the gtx3071 was the way Bryan treated me over the phone when I called. He didn't have an open mind about the bolts on the compressor side causing the boost leak and just straight out denied it being a problem that could cause my boost leak.

[sloanek]

Oh and before anyone ask when the turbo is fixed it will probably be sold locally. Unless you want to pay way more for it HAHA.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by sloanek Oh and before anyone ask when the turbo is fixed it will probably be sold locally. Unless you want to pay way more for it HAHA.

Was the bottom bracket bolted to the turbo during this time?

[boostdmazda3]

very curious to see how many more people chime in.

[himurax13]

Himurax13
2000 miles
One of the bolt closest to the drainline/firewall backed out and the other one was loosely hanging with the plate.
Yes
20 tapering to 22.
Mostly DD, occasionaly canyons, tracked at Willow Springs, onramps with authority. several WOT logs.
No
No
Fixed by inserting cheap grade 5 stainless bolts from the bottom while still in the car. Had to use a dremmel to turn bolts into self tapping screws and then use the goodntight torque method. No leaks were detected and held for 4 months before pulling off car.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by himurax13 Himurax13 2000 miles One of the bolt closest to the drainline/firewall backed out and the other one was loosely hanging with the plate. 20 tapering to 22. Mostly DD, occasionaly canyons, tracked at Willow Springs, onramps with autority. several WOT logs. No No Fixed by inserting cheap grade 5 stainless bolts from the bottom while still in the car. Had to use a dremmel to turn bolts into self tapping screws and then use the goodntight torque method. No leaks were detected and held for 4 months before pulling off car.

Bracket to block used?

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Lex Bracket to block used?

Whoops, updated post to yes. I believe I was the lucky one to experience this first. I believe it happened on the way to the NATOR pool party last year (my car sounded like an mid 80's Mercedes Turbo diesel).

It only took us 3 months to find it (I replaced every gasket from the block to the catback).

[txmedic512]

I was going through this old thread and I have a feeling I am similar issues to yours. How was your bnr building boost during wot? I am currently fully bolted running reverse taper to 25 psi and building boost down low is shit until about 4100 rpms. I have been reading that I should be hitting full boost around 3300 rpms.

Originally Posted by himurax13 Himurax13 2000 miles One of the bolt closest to the drainline/firewall backed out and the other one was loosely hanging with the plate. Yes 20 tapering to 22. Mostly DD, occasionaly canyons, tracked at Willow Springs, onramps with authority. several WOT logs. No No Fixed by inserting cheap grade 5 stainless bolts from the bottom while still in the car. Had to use a dremmel to turn bolts into self tapping screws and then use the goodntight torque method. No leaks were detected and held for 4 months before pulling off car.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by txmedic512 I was going through this old thread and I have a feeling I am similar issues to yours. How was your bnr building boost during wot? I am currently fully bolted running reverse taper to 25 psi and building boost down low is shit until about 4100 rpms. I have been reading that I should be hitting full boost around 3300 rpms.

The boost curve was fine. However my AFR's at WOT were all over the place.

Who is tuning you?

A BNR should be able to hit 20+ lbs of boost by 3200 RPM's or so.

Do you have the newest version?

[2.0t03speed]

Originally Posted by himurax13 The boost curve was fine. However my AFR's at WOT were all over the place. Who is tuning you? A BNR should be able to hit 20+ lbs of boost by 3200 RPM's or so. Do you have the newest version?

i am tuning him (Ryan @ PD) his is the old bnr. literally have thrown everything at this bnr and it won't spool faster. vvt is up to 30*+, added preload, 80% wgdc and the turbo won't hit 20 psi till 4100. Afr has been fairly flat this entire time. it's just spooling really slow. All the flange bolts have been checked. No problems there. The only things left to check are the chra bolts and the exhaust housing to see if maybe the housing or the waste gate flapper is cracked. I've tuned a bunch of bnr's and this is the first time i've ever encountered one acting like this.

[MPS_Fan]

MPS_Fan
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo:
1500 miles
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?):
Bolt in direction to firewall (directly besides coolant line) fell completely out and other bolt on same braket was loose.
One bolt in direction to motor broke when i tried to remove it. Got stuck in middle of threads, when i tried to srew in again (without any force) the head just fell off
Boost level you are running:
reverse tapper to 23psi (redline)
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?:
yes
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc):
street, sometimes highspeed runs for couple of minutes
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?:
No, but they are ok
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:
No
How did you fix it?:
Not fixed yet, will use high tensile bolts (8.8) and special washers:

Turbo has to get out to drill out the bolt, fuuuuuuuuuuck!

[kritz]

How about safety wiring the bolts?

[paveltol]

Hello Alex! I have the same issue.

Username: Paveltol
Mileage on BNRS3 turbo: 60 000 km
What was the failure (which bolts backed out, broken, other?): one of the bolts holding the bracket and exhaust side together is backing out every ~5 000/10 000km. Once it caused the coolant line get burnt by the exhaust flame, the coolant started leaking hard. It took me 3 hours being 100 km away from the nearest town at 3 AM and -25C to try and fix the car to drive home without coolant and exhaust leak.
Boost level you are running: 1.1 Bar
Are you using the bottom supporting bracket bolted to the block?: Yes
How is the car driven (street, hard, tracked, etc): Street/Highway
Did you retorque the exhaust bolts at any time prior to failure?: No
Does your turbo have any locking washers on these bolts?:No
How did you fix it?: I disassembled the old OEM turbo, took one of its bolts, and screwed it into the bnr with very small amount of loctite on the thread. 3000 km since then.. Next time I will put put locking washer.

I contacted Bryan a couple of times regarding that issue, he promised to send me some new caps, that are supposed to solve the issue. He never did.

[jack_hammer]

what a bummer to hear!

[MPS_Fan]

@paveltol
+1 for awesome customer service, i even didn't got an answer.

Why only 1.1 bar? Isn't running such low boost on bnr wasted money?

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by MPS_Fan @paveltol +1 for awesome customer service, i even didn't got an answer. Why only 1.1 bar? Isn't running such low boost on bnr wasted money?

I am running a very conservative tune on a RON95 gas with that boost pressure. The tuner managed to make just 279 hp last time I took my car to the dyno tuning, saying that I had a bad VVT actuator. I was quite disappointed with those numbers, because before that he made 301 hp with stock turbo and with no supporting mods. I totally replaced the VVT and haven't done any new tune since then. Still, even with that boost the car pulls well.

The graphs:
Stock car without a tune made 271hp on RON95 with only an inlet pipe and an ignition aplifier.
After the tune on RON95 it made 301 hp.
After adding BNRS3+FMIC+3"catless dp+hpfp+sri it made 279hp)) With same RON95 in tank)

Now I have an AP and willing to do the e-tuning with Lex @ Stratified Auto. When finished, I'll post the figures & impressions.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by paveltol I am running a very conservative tune on a RON95 gas with that boost pressure. The tuner managed to make just 279 hp last time I took my car to the dyno tuning, saying that I had a bad VVT actuator. I was quite disappointed with those numbers, because before that he made 301 hp with stock turbo and with no supporting mods. I totally replaced the VVT and haven't done any new tune since then. Still, even with that boost the car pulls well. The graphs: Stock car without a tune made 271hp on RON95 with only an inlet pipe and an ignition aplifier. After the tune on RON95 it made 301 hp. After adding BNRS3+FMIC+3"catless dp+hpfp+sri it made 279hp)) With same RON95 in tank) Now I have an AP and willing to do the e-tuning with Lex @ Stratified Auto. When finished, I'll post the figures & impressions.

If the fuel can support it, we will definitely be making a lot more power on your setup

Op updated. It appears that this is a common issue. Keep posting!

[kish89]

Originally Posted by paveltol I am running a very conservative tune on a RON95 gas with that boost pressure. The tuner managed to make just 279 hp last time I took my car to the dyno tuning, saying that I had a bad VVT actuator. I was quite disappointed with those numbers, because before that he made 301 hp with stock turbo and with no supporting mods. I totally replaced the VVT and haven't done any new tune since then. Still, even with that boost the car pulls well. The graphs: Stock car without a tune made 271hp on RON95 with only an inlet pipe and an ignition aplifier. After the tune on RON95 it made 301 hp. After adding BNRS3+FMIC+3"catless dp+hpfp+sri it made 279hp)) With same RON95 in tank) Now I have an AP and willing to do the e-tuning with Lex @ Stratified Auto. When finished, I'll post the figures & impressions.

I don't get it, almost stock MPS 6 dynoed 271WHP ?
It seems that you got factory freak lol, because I'm currently at those power levels with all mods I have.
Ok, I'm still in the middle of tuning, but I'm not expecting more than 290WHP on pump gas tune, we will see what gains I'll get with meth.

[paveltol]

I believe we will!

[paveltol]

The hp i have written about are definitely not whp!)

[MPS_Fan]

@paveltol
You have chosen the right way. I was just in mid tune process when I lost my bolt now I have to fix this first. But I can tell you, tune is not finished and the car is a beast!!! Are you using Toyota seals?
Oh and my coolant line was also little bit toasted. But I drove only 50km with this leak and always out of boost. Seems that we are loosing the same bolt!?!?

So btt
@lex
What do you think about using standard high tensile bolts with washers like on the picture instead of stainless steel? I mean the exhaust studs also just made of high tensile material wich takes the expansion much better. I know that they will rust, but the threads should stay intact (maybe use anti-size paste) and in this area there's absolutely no water and its dry, so that the bolts should last a very long time.
I could also use stainless steel bolts coated with silver (have them at work), that should prevent the bolt from getting stuck. We use them for stainless steel to stainless steel connection. Because screwing stainless steel bolt a few times in and out eats up the threads. This is a common issue and the material is still not good for this stressed area (high temperature, lot of expansion).

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by MPS_Fan @paveltol You have chosen the right way. I was just in mid tune process when I lost my bolt now I have to fix this first. But I can tell you, tune is not finished and the car is a beast!!! Are you using Toyota seals? Oh and my coolant line was also little bit toasted. But I drove only 50km with this leak and always out of boost. Seems that we are loosing the same bolt!?!?

Yes, it seems like we are losing the same bolt, which is hard to get back in place with a coolant line connected to the turbo - nearly no space for tools..
I am using stock seals. So far they are holding fine. Don't know which seals to put in when doing the engine rebuild.. CP-E/Toyota??

[Lex]

Originally Posted by MPS_Fan @paveltol You have chosen the right way. I was just in mid tune process when I lost my bolt now I have to fix this first. But I can tell you, tune is not finished and the car is a beast!!! Are you using Toyota seals? Oh and my coolant line was also little bit toasted. But I drove only 50km with this leak and always out of boost. Seems that we are loosing the same bolt!?!? So btt @lex What do you think about using standard high tensile bolts with washers like on the picture instead of stainless steel? I mean the exhaust studs also just made of high tensile material wich takes the expansion much better. I know that they will rust, but the threads should stay intact (maybe use anti-size paste) and in this area there's absolutely no water and its dry, so that the bolts should last a very long time. I could also use stainless steel bolts coated with silver (have them at work), that should prevent the bolt from getting stuck. We use them for stainless steel to stainless steel connection. Because screwing stainless steel bolt a few times in and out eats up the threads. This is a common issue and the material is still not good for this stressed area (high temperature, lot of expansion).

Here's a good reference:
Carpenter Products - Selecting High Temperature Alloys for Fasteners in Automotive Exhaust Systems - Carpenter 286-LNi

[breakfstincluded]

good thread idea!

[MPS_Fan]

I removed the cooling line and heat shieldings, it was impossible to get it back with the line attached.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by MPS_Fan I removed the cooling line and heat shieldings, it was impossible to get it back with the line attached.

It helps to have small, angry, asian hands. Big, manly, German hands will not work..

I believe I removed the coolant line and the oil drain line to gain access. Even with those out of the way, the amount of room to work is extremely small. I had to do most of the work by feel. I ended up shaving off the first few threads of the bolt so I could finger it in then tighten with an open end wrench. This took me a few hours, most of which was spent cursing.

[dereeek]

Just went and checked out my BNR3 the only bolt I'm missing is on the bottom where the turbo bracket and hot side connect. installed at 21,400k & now 28k miles

My one year with the BNR is coming up in July. I remember when I got it I went to the local screw-nut store(no idea what the name is) and had them match stud and nuts that I bought from SU(OEM replacement). I believe they were stainless steel with lock washers.

[kritz]

How about these?

http://www.stage8.com/perfauto.html

Sent from fastest ko4 Pu!

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by kritz How about these? Performance Auto | Locking Fasteners Sent from fastest ko4 Pu!

I wasn't involved with it myself, but a couple years ago I remember reading about a lot of VW guys that were having issues with nuts/bolts backing out on the 1.8t and their solution was to use these. They seemed to work out very well for those that tried them, but then again, how can they not? Lol. They literally lock the nut against a solid object so it has nowhere to go.

[MPS_Fan]

Originally Posted by sidekick I wasn't involved with it myself, but a couple years ago I remember reading about a lot of VW guys that were having issues with nuts/bolts backing out on the 1.8t and their solution was to use these. They seemed to work out very well for those that tried them, but then again, how can they not? Lol. They literally lock the nut against a solid object so it has nowhere to go.

This bolts would be fine. But you find them only in M8 or M10 :-(

What we need is M5

[06Speed6]

Stage 8 is good, or an oem turbo stud/nut. Ide never reused a turbo nut and I always use a oem stud nut combo and ive never had one back out. The 1700+* temps dont play around and HD nuts and bolts just arent rated to those temps, all oems that I am aware of use special materials in their studs and nuts so that they stay tight through the heat cycles. I think there are several cars that use inconel studs, I think Porsche and the new GTR both do, they generally are way cheaper than aftermarket options.

[forcedinduktion]

Aircraft Quality Turbo Lock Nut, M10 x 1.5 (SET OF 4 NUTS) - NEW LOWER PRICE - 034Motorsport | Performance Parts for Audi, Porsche, and Volkswagen

[MPS_Fan]

I trie to decide wich route i should go:
1.Use silver coated A2-70 bolts with lock washers like on my picture with low torque and wiring them
2.Use 8.8 Bolts with special lock washer but more torque.

At the moment i tend to nr. 1 because wiring the bolts seems to be quite efficient and i don´t risk that the bolts get sized because A2 + silver coating.

[Lex]

Let's see if we can get a stud and nut combo. That way if the nut backs out you still don't have a leak.

[paveltol]

I think we need custom coolant line with heat shield and a stud as a kit.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1367515457.193654.jpg

[razorscs]

So everyone having problems is using the bracket... Does that mean that since I don't have it I'm definitely screwed?? Haha

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by razorscs So everyone having problems is using the bracket... Does that mean that since I don't have it I'm definitely screwed?? Haha

Actually, mine was pre bracket. He probably designed the bracket because of my frustration. I tokd him I spent a lot of money and a great deal of time to locate the leak. I was rather upset. My temporary fix held up the rest if the time I had the turbo. I sent it in when I stocked out to have him rebalance the wheel and upgrade it.

Sent via stockish Black Mica Pu

[razorscs]

Originally Posted by himurax13 Actually, mine was pre bracket. He probably designed the bracket because of my frustration. I tokd him I spent a lot of money and a great deal of time to locate the leak. I was rather upset. My temporary fix held up the rest if the time I had the turbo. I sent it in when I stocked out to have him rebalance the wheel and upgrade it. Sent via stockish Black Mica Pu

Wait are we not talking about the stock Turbo Support Bracket here?

[Lex]

When I installed mine I snugged up the bolts. A few were loose and the turbo was used. I have about 3k hard miles on it and I haven't seen any of the heads break or any of them back out.

I had a similar issue on a previous turbo car. Bolt fell out but once I replaced it and tightened it down, it never came out for the many years I owned the car.

I have a feeling they come too loosely attached from BNR.