Bnr s4 installed now my car won’t start without jumping the starter

[Clay46]

So I got my bnr s4 in along with these mods ported intake manifold, xspower turbo manifold, HTP 3.5” intake, corksport injector seals, Damond motorsports rear motor mount, turbo smart dual port blowoff valve, autotech high pressure fuel pump internals, cpe catted downpipe, grimmspeed 3 Port electronic boost controller, cx racing front mount intercooler, guardian angel v3, and I think a 3bar map sensor ( came with the manifold and I forgot to ask, it is a Bosch sensor). I got it all together and when I tried to start it nothing happens, all my interior lights turn on and everything but I’m not getting anything to the starter. So I jumped the starter and once I get it started it dies in about 2-3 seconds. I even have a mechanic helping me with this and he doesn’t know. All the fuses tested ok. He has almost run out of ideas. Just looking for some helpful ideas as to why it is doing this. I also have no throttle response, I can’t just press the gas to keep it running.

[KiwiFlavor]

Do you have a tune for that 3.5" intake? If not that may be why it dies right away. Check wiring harness again. Did you take out the ground by the HPFP?

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor Do you have a tune for that 3.5" intake? If not that may be why it dies right away. Check wiring harness again. Did you take out the ground by the HPFP?

I do not have a tune yet. I was just looking to make sure it would start before I moved on to getting a tune. I did ask on one of the Mazdaspeed Facebook groups last night and they recommended to get a tune. I ordered one last night but I’m more worried about why it won’t start with the key. I have to jump the starter selonoid for it to turn over

[KiwiFlavor]

Ok, you CERTAINLY need a tune. When you have bigger intake than stock, you're going to need MAF CAL or the car won't even idle.

Im not sure tho if that could be the cause of your no-start issue. Try unplugging the MAF sensor and see if it starts without it.

[maisonvi]

wait wait wait, you put in a bigger turbo, and a bunch of mods, and then thought the car would start without a tune? wow.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor Ok, you CERTAINLY need a tune. When you have bigger intake than stock, you're going to need MAF CAL or the car won't even idle. Im not sure tho if that could be the cause of your no-start issue. Try unplugging the MAF sensor and see if it starts without it.

Ok, I’ll try that after work. I understand how the MAF would not let it idle but how would it not allow it to start because it can’t read air flow if there is none. The motor won’t turn over. I can hear the fuel pump but that’s it

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Clay46 I do not have a tune yet.

What in the world led you to believe you could drive a car modified to this extent on a stock tune? The intake alone is going to prevent your car from running, never mind all the other stuff. Do you even understand how electronic boost control works? Next time try doing a little reading before just bolting a bunch of stuff onto your car and expecting it to work...

[KiwiFlavor]

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by MD1032 What in the world led you to believe you could drive a car modified to this extent on a stock tune? The intake alone is going to prevent your car from running, never mind all the other stuff. Do you even understand how electronic boost control works? Next time try doing a little reading before just bolting a bunch of stuff onto your car and expecting it to work...

I am not looking to drive it. I was looking to make sure it would start. I know I can’t drive it like that. I just figured it would still idle. As most cars would do after mods. The boost controller isn’t hooked up yet. I just have a line that connects the compressor housing to the actuator and then plugged the hole on the intake.

Nowhere did I state that I planned on pulling it out of the garage and go driving around in it

[KiwiFlavor]

.... there's so much wrong here... lol

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by maisonvi wait wait wait, you put in a bigger turbo, and a bunch of mods, and then thought the car would start without a tune? wow.

So your saying that because of a bigger turbo I can’t even use the key to Start it

[KiwiFlavor]

Originally Posted by Clay46 So your saying that because of a bigger turbo I can’t even use the key to Start it

It's not just the bigger turbo man...

You need a tune for the intake, the 3 port EBCS, and also your 3 bar map sensor....

[Clay46]

So if I get a tune then the key will work to start it?

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor It's not just the bigger turbo man... You need a tune for the intake, the 3 port EBCS, and also your 3 bar map sensor....

I understand that but how would that make the car not allow the key to be used for starting. I understand it would do that once it’s started and then die

[KiwiFlavor]

You can start there first.

If not then maybe your starter is crapping out. Idk if this is relevant, but again, did you mess with any ground wire at all?

EDIT: Actually nvm, ground wire will let you crank, but it won't start.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor You can start there first. If not then maybe your starter is crapping out. Idk if this is relevant, but again, did you mess with any ground wire at all? EDIT: Actually nvm, ground wire will let you crank, but it won't start.

I did not touch any of the grounds but the starter seems fine because I can jump the solenoid on the starter to get it to turn over I just can’t get the key to work

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Clay46 I understand that but how would that make the car not allow the key to be used for starting. I understand it would do that once it’s started and then die

This is a MAF-based car. Fueling, boost control, everything is calculated and driven by the MAF signal. This is why MAF calibration is the first thing we do when tuning these cars, and why your car won't run at all right now. The car is expecting a certain amount of air to be going into the engine at the MAF voltage it detects while it's cranking and starting, and right now a completely different amount is going in because you have a 3.5" intake that's flowing a lot more air at the same MAF voltage than the stock 2.5" intake. The ECU can use the primary O2 sensor to make small corrections in fueling (because MAF sensors inherently have error), but not the level we're looking at between a 2.5" and a 3.5" intake. You're literally flowing like double the amount of air at the same voltage.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by MD1032 This is a MAF-based car. Fueling, boost control, everything is calculated and driven by the MAF signal. This is why MAF calibration is the first thing we do when tuning these cars, and why your car won't run at all right now. The car is expecting a certain amount of air to be going into the engine at the MAF voltage it detects while it's cranking and starting, and right now a completely different amount is going in because you have a 3.5" intake that's flowing a lot more air at the same MAF voltage than the stock 2.5" intake. The ECU can use the primary O2 sensor to make small corrections in fueling (because MAF sensors inherently have error), but not the level we're looking at between a 2.5" and a 3.5" intake. You're literally flowing like double the amount of air at the same voltage.

Ok, I still don’t understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but I’ll start with getting a tune

[Spectrix]

Originally Posted by Clay46 Ok, I still don’t understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but I’ll start with getting a tune

Hi, yes you're right. If the starter won't engage, there are some other problems beyond the tune.

It's quite common on this platform for the car not to start after being pulled apart and put back together. Keep trying, double check all of your plugs and harnesses. Often times it's just a plug that needs a wiggle or a faulty ground.

Have a look at some of the 'Car won't start' threads on here for ideas.

As far as the tune goes, one of the etuners on here will be able to send you a base map that suits the larger MAF housing, hopefully this will allow it to idle once you've got it to the point where it's tuning over with the key. Best of luck to you sir.

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by Clay46 Ok, I still don’t understand how that would affect the key not engaging the starter but I’ll start with getting a tune

Exactly what Spectrix said. Personally I would NEVER start my car with all those mods without a base tune first. I would be very upset if my engine got fucked because I was not properly prepared and impatient. That should have been the very first thing you bought.

Sounds to me like the clutch switch on the pedal or you left a connector off somewhere. Ensure that all wires and grounds are G2G.

Good luck!! You'll be loving it once its tuned.

[MS3Shadow]

Bruh, don't report posts just because they are right. You can't go big turbo without a base tune at the least. It just won't run.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow Bruh, don't report posts just because they are right. You can't go big turbo without a base tune at the least. It just won't run.

Ok I understand that but my problem is that I’m not getting any power from the key to the starter. Like I had stated I am not trying to drive it. I’m just trying to figure out why the key won’t work to start it

[MSMS3]

All I will say is that OP is very lucky that he has the starter problem. Not being able to start was a guardian angel looking our for his ass. Otherwise, he'd be trying to drive it, trying to find some way to keep it running while he explored his yet to be found base map from a custom tuner for his big turbo setup.

He should be very thankful that the starter issue saved his ass.

Now, OP, get with one of the custom e-Tuners here, line up a base map that will be a safe place to begin with your mods.

Chances are high that the starter issue is probably going to be a ground wire left unconnected or a poor ground connection somewhere during the install.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 All I will say is that OP is very lucky that he has the starter problem. Not being able to start was a guardian angel looking our for his ass. Otherwise, he'd be trying to drive it, trying to find some way to keep it running while he explored his yet to be found base map from a custom tuner for his big turbo setup. He should be very thankful that the starter issue saved his ass. Now, OP, get with one of the custom e-Tuners here, line up a base map that will be a safe place to begin with your mods. Chances are high that the starter issue is probably going to be a ground wire left unconnected or a poor ground connection somewhere during the install.

I’ve already contacted a tuner as stated above and as stated above I have gotten it startedit just dies right away. Also I didn’t have to mess with any of the grounds so I doubt its a ground

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by Clay46 I’ve already contacted a tuner as stated above and as stated above I have gotten it startedit just dies right away. Also I didn’t have to mess with any of the grounds so I doubt its a ground

If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....

If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I don’t know every little detail about these cars. I’ve only owned one for about 9 months.

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer If you removed the HPFP you did have to remove a ground. But what do we know? We're trying to help here.....

And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasn’t grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if it’s starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Clay46 If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I don’t know every little detail about these cars. I’ve only owned one for about 9 months. And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasn’t grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if it’s starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.

If the high-pressure fuel pump wasn't grounded, (and therefore not operational), you might still be getting enough pressure from the in-tank pump to start the car, but not to let it idle.

Given all the shit that you touched on your car, it's likely that you've got a missing ground wire. If the car won't crank without applying power directly to the starter, then the likelihood is that your starter isn't properly grounded. It's easy to knock the starter ground off while removing and/or installing an intake manifold.

Moreover, if the HPFP isn't properly grounded (which also might be the case here), then even if you got the car started, it shouldn't stay running.

EVEN IF you get the car started at this point, it WILL NOT MAINTAIN idle. The 3.5" ID of the intake you installed is too large for the ECU to compensate for. You absolutely 100% need a custom tune for the car to even hold an idle for more than a couple of seconds.

Edit: Also, don't report posts just because you think they're offensive or insensitive due to the fact that they are telling you factual information about your car that you don't want to hear.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Clay46 If I removed a ground while doing that then I am unaware that there was a ground that I disconnected. I don’t know every little detail about these cars. I’ve only owned one for about 9 months. And also as I stated above I have had the car running. If the fuel pump wasn’t grounded I would have not had fuel right? But if it’s starting by jumping the solenoid then the fuel pump is good.

Wrong. You came here for help. We are giving you that help. You want to challenge the advice. That's ok, but will not solve your problem. Please stop arguing and start listening. Your time would be well-served in tracking down the weak or disconnected ground.

People here have been living with these cars daily for ten years or more in many cases, having bought them new off the showroom floor. These cars are very mature platform. The technical knowledge here is deep.

[Clay46]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 Wrong. You came here for help. We are giving you that help. You want to challenge the advice. That's ok, but will not solve your problem. Please stop arguing and start listening. Your time would be well-served in tracking down the weak or disconnected ground. People here have been living with these cars daily for ten years or more in many cases, having bought them new off the showroom floor. These cars are very mature platform. The technical knowledge here is deep.

Ok, well t ended up being a wire on the starter was lose or dirty because after fixing nothing and just unhooking the wire the mechanic had rigged up to bypass the key switch and plugging the connector back on it worked

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by Clay46 Ok, well t ended up being a wire on the starter was lose or dirty because after fixing nothing and just unhooking the wire the mechanic had rigged up to bypass the key switch and plugging the connector back on it worked

Wow, all that going back and forth, getting defensive, etc, etc, over a bad connection. Imagine that.

Now tune that bitch and get your roll on! Post back here with your impressions with the new setup.