BNR S4 oil consumption (intermittent white smoke)

[pwdunmore]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou I like that routing, but I would have both cans VTA.

Why?

The one routing provides vacuum while cruising and the other releases excess pressure under boost.

Both VTA on a S4 is overkill.

[Fstrnyou]

The check valves I've seen have a somewhat small orifice to allow GOOD flow for pressure release.

The non-vented can does nothing when in boost. The air in those lines is stagnant. If the can was vented, with a check valve on the filter of course, it can then play a role in venting crankcase pressure.
Is there such a thing as too much venting? I don't think so.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge The S4 is SUPER sensitive to crank case pressure. It doesn't take much to blow out oil. I would STRONGLY recommend a PCV plate and using Damond's OCC routing diagram pictured here. Also, check your AFRs. If you're running rich, you might see some blue smoke.

why is the check valve on the green path not after the Valve cover ? Since the right occ is vented, the intake could suck air thru the engine by the VC and occ filter ?



Fstrnyou sometimes peoples don't like the oil smell when venting out.

[Fstrnyou]

The filter has its own check valve.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl Fstrnyou sometimes peoples don't like the oil smell when venting out.

If you don't like oil smells, you bought the wrong car lol

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge If you don't like oil smells, you bought the wrong car lol

i know, but it get worst when venting VTA....especially if occ filter is high in the engine bay...

[Fstrnyou]

Okay, in that case...
Route all VTA hoses to a charcoal filter.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Okay, in that case... Route all VTA hoses to a charcoal filter.

Fill catch cans 1/2 way with Febreeze

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge The S4 is SUPER sensitive to crank case pressure. It doesn't take much to blow out oil. I would STRONGLY recommend a PCV plate and using Damond's OCC routing diagram pictured here. Also, check your AFRs. If you're running rich, you might see some blue smoke.

This looks promising! I ordered a DM PCV plate and another DM vented can. I'll give this routing option a try.
My only concern is the vent right off the block potentially spraying oil everywhere. Have you tried this method?

I target and hold 11.8:1 all the way to 6700 rpm, so it isn't super rich. It's clear when the turbo smokes, as it's a whitish blue color.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou I like that routing, but I would have both cans VTA.

I agree! it looks like it will retain good vacuum under all driving conditions. I currently have a DM vented can, so with the DM plate I will be able to figure out which routing option works best for pressure relief, ultimately allowing oil to drain out of the turbski efficiently. I thought the breather cap and vented can alone would be enough. Hopefully the plate will solve the issue.

On their website, they show the back side of the plate, and you can really see just how small of a hole the PCV valve has. Those other two big holes on the plate should definitely help.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 My only concern is the vent right off the block potentially spraying oil everywhere. Have you tried this method

at worst if it happen, you can extend the hose length and rise the filter height? i don't know if the DM plate have baffle for it already? I would expect they made something that works

[Jeff23spl]

I had one at intake level without issues

[Solarsurge]

The crank case is seeing typically 2-5 psi at most. It's not gonna spray anything. It might spit a tiny bit here and there, but that's what the filter is for. 5 psi up the turbo oil return, on the other hand, is enough to make it flow backward since it's a gravity feed. It's kind of like blowing air bubbles into a beverage with a straw.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl I had one at intake level without issues

Nice custom work right there!

Originally Posted by Solarsurge The crank case is seeing typically 2-5 psi at most. It's not gonna spray anything. It might spit a tiny bit here and there, but that's what the filter is for. 5 psi up the turbo oil return, on the other hand, is enough to make it flow backward since it's a gravity feed. It's kind of like blowing air bubbles into a beverage with a straw.

Man you are smart! The nice thing about the Damond Motorsports PCV plate having two additional ports is that there are many routing options. I was also considering this one to prevent oil spray yet retain oem vacuum sources:
Damond Motorsports PCV route 3.png
I would have both cans vented and was thinking of running a 5/8" hose off the top vent on the secondary can, and teeing it into the hose between the valve cover and turbo inlet for added vacuum when the check valve on top of the can opens. I may do this with the routing option you posted as well.

I'll have to do some testing to see which routing option rewards me with a clear rear view

[Jeff23spl]

Your setup would work but personally, i think the original is better.

In the original, The occ breather is there mostly in case the return isn't able to take all the blow-by but in your setup, all the crank case blow-by will have to get out from the occ filter, (there is no ''return'' )
And you are no longer separating the oil out of the valve cover vapors so the intake path will get the oem level of oil inside the tubes.

[Polish_Eagle]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 Ok so a little update... Smoking is still happening only at WOT but has improved a little bit. It's worse if the oil hasn't fully warmed up. Compression was checked and resulted in 180 psi across all 4 cylinders. I've removed oil return line and verified no blockage in the line, engine block, and turbo cartridge. Puffs of whitish blueish smoke occur more noticeably if I hit the throttle hard as opposed to gradually going WOT. It's also noticebly smokey if I hit the rev limiter (accidentally). It seems very much related to crankcase pressure as it only happens at WOT. If I rev the engine out to high rpm at part throttle to raise oil pressure, it doesn't smoke at all. Things that have helped but not fully cured the issue: 1. Gen 2 valve cover w/ Sp63 oil breather cap; VC breather still routed to turbo inlet for vacuum 2. DM stage 2 vented catch can with vent routed to turbo inlet for added vacuum 3. Oil restrictor bolt from BNR (smaller hole than JBR bolt) 4. Switching back to 5w30 (was running 5w40 Rotella T6) as it drains out of the turbo more efficiently as per Bryan. I really don't want to have to send it out to Bryan to get rebuilt. Has anyone had a similar issue with the S4? If so what was your solution? Thanks! Erik

I recommend a leak down test to confirm the health of your engine. On my 3 I had burning oil issues and sometimes smoking. At this point I tested the compression and saw 180 - 185 PSI on all 4 cylinders. I then made a leak down tester and checked my engine and I was surprised to see 2 cylinders had ~40% leak and the other 2 had 20 -30% leak. From there I had no choice but to rebuild the engine and during the tear down I saw that all 4 pistons had cracked ring lands.

In my case, the burning oil issue was from the crankcase pressurizing and oil blowing past the rings. Also, since the crankcase was experiencing excessive pressure, my turbo wasn't draining properly, and this cause it to seep into the compressor housing.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle I recommend a leak down test to confirm the health of your engine. On my 3 I had burning oil issues and sometimes smoking. At this point I tested the compression and saw 180 - 185 PSI on all 4 cylinders. I then made a leak down tester and checked my engine and I was surprised to see 2 cylinders had ~40% leak and the other 2 had 20 -30% leak. From there I had no choice but to rebuild the engine and during the tear down I saw that all 4 pistons had cracked ring lands. In my case, the burning oil issue was from the crankcase pressurizing and oil blowing past the rings. Also, since the crankcase was experiencing excessive pressure, my turbo wasn't draining properly, and this cause it to seep into the compressor housing.

Thanks man! I will definitely do a leak down test. In your case since having had all 4 ringlands cracked, when did you notice smoke and the most oil consumption? Was it mainly at WOT, or even at cruising and part throttle?

The reason I ask is because my engine consumes virtually no oil or cause smoking when cruising around at part throttle. It's mainly at WOT, and has gotten much better since installing a vented catch can and the sp63 oil breather cap.

FWIW we know oil pressure increases with rpm, and I can hold the rpm really high at part throttle to about 5000 rpm and see no smoke out the tail pipe. The smoking occurs only under load, which gives me a sense that my ringlands are not cracked

Thanks!

[Polish_Eagle]

If I remember correctly the smoke was just at WOT, part throttle and cruising were fine. Also, the smoke wasn't really visible by me, it was my buddies driving behind me telling me they smell burnt oil and see a bluish smoke when I went WOT. As for oil consumption, the most was also definitely at WOT, but the rest of the time it was sipping small amounts.

If you have a valve cover breather, check the filter on it, and see if it's soaked in oil. Mine would get soaked with oil and then spray all over the engine bay (it got worse with time).

If I were you, I would definitely do a leakdown test to either determine the pistons are done or rule out that problem. A leakdown test will tell you the most about the engine health as it will identify problems throughout.

[Jeff23spl]

Mine wasn't burning much oil with #3 cracked. Mostly under wot and less than 250ml at oil change. I ran it a bit more than a year before rebuilding it.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle If I remember correctly the smoke was just at WOT, part throttle and cruising were fine. Also, the smoke wasn't really visible by me, it was my buddies driving behind me telling me they smell burnt oil and see a bluish smoke when I went WOT. As for oil consumption, the most was also definitely at WOT, but the rest of the time it was sipping small amounts. If you have a valve cover breather, check the filter on it, and see if it's soaked in oil. Mine would get soaked with oil and then spray all over the engine bay (it got worse with time). If I were you, I would definitely do a leakdown test to either determine the pistons are done or rule out that problem. A leakdown test will tell you the most about the engine health as it will identify problems throughout.

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl Mine wasn't burning much oil with #3 cracked. Mostly under wot and less than 250ml at oil change. I ran it a bit more than a year before rebuilding it.

I've got no oil at all coming from the valve cover breather hose, but all this talk of cracked ringlands is starting to get me worried. Like you said, we will have to see the results of the leak down test and then go from there. I baby the car when it comes to tuning it and never do back to back pulls without some cool down driving in between. I've been tuning the car since the beginning and wouldn't be happy if I found out that my ringlands were cracked because I've never made more than 330 whp and I monitor knock on the daily. I hope it's just the S4 being sensitive to 'normal' crankcase pressure but we will see

[Fstrnyou]

I get smoke at WOT as well but with the CS turbo. As others have said, I can't see it from the driver's seat.
It was first mentioned to me a bit over a year ago when the turbo was fresh and only pushing about 280whp @18psi.
Compression has always tested good but have yet to do a leak-down test.
I'm pushing it a bit harder now. In this summer heat, I'm guessing about 320whp @22psi.
Smoke or not, I send it daily.

[Jeff23spl]

lol ringland won't break for nothing....When I broke mine, i made a tuning error and for just 2 pull in third gear it break. Too much boost without enough fuel and octane... the knock break 3 spark plug at the same time too. Lesson learned!

[Polish_Eagle]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 I've got no oil at all coming from the valve cover breather hose, but all this talk of cracked ringlands is starting to get me worried. Like you said, we will have to see the results of the leak down test and then go from there. I baby the car when it comes to tuning it and never do back to back pulls without some cool down driving in between. I've been tuning the car since the beginning and wouldn't be happy if I found out that my ringlands were cracked because I've never made more than 330 whp and I monitor knock on the daily. I hope it's just the S4 being sensitive to 'normal' crankcase pressure but we will see

Well it's not horsepower, the main problem is the increased cylinder temps when increasing boost and/or timing. Our OEM ring gaps are very tight and eventually crack the ringlands from the increased heat.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou I get smoke at WOT as well but with the CS turbo. As others have said, I can't see it from the driver's seat. It was first mentioned to me a bit over a year ago when the turbo was fresh and only pushing about 280whp @18psi. Compression has always tested good but have yet to do a leak-down test. I'm pushing it a bit harder now. In this summer heat, I'm guessing about 320whp @22psi. Smoke or not, I send it daily.

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl lol ringland won't break for nothing....When I broke mine, i made a tuning error and for just 2 pull in third gear it break. Too much boost without enough fuel and octane... the knock break 3 spark plug at the same time too. Lesson learned!

Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle Well it's not horsepower, the main problem is the increased cylinder temps when increasing boost and/or timing. Our OEM ring gaps are very tight and eventually crack the ringlands from the increased heat.

Alright! So I did a leak down test and everything is looking good. All cylinders have less than a 2% leak down with the engine hot after it had been running for a while.

It's crazy just how much air leaks past the piston rings if the engine isn't near or at operating temp. With the engine on the cooler side I was getting around 15-20% leak down readings and could actually feel quite a bit of air coming out of the oil fill hole. So I decided to loosely reinstall everything and let the engine run for a bit.

What a difference in results! The lesson here is to make sure the engine is hot, not just warm, when doing a leak down test

It makes sense now that the turbo has a higher tendency to smoke under slight load when the engine hasn't fully warmed up. Crankcase pressure is higher from more blow by, and oil is thicker inherently causing higher oil pressure to the turbo, and reduced flow out of it.

[BuddySpeed3]

@Jeff23spl; @Polish_Eagle; @Solarsurge; @Fstrnyou; @pwdunmore; @Djohns; @afronese1; @Yllib30; @mituc;

Ok so another update. I installed a DM PCV plate and this is my exact setup:

PCV_route_3_grande.png

Compression is 180 psi across the board, and cylinder leakage is less 2% with the engine warm.

During WOT or anything near it, the oil seems to push past the seals and blow whitish grey smoke. Then when I shift and coast in the next gear, I see significant white smoke with a blue tinge out the back. It eventually dissipates back to normal once I commence cruising.

I switched back to Rotella T6 5w40 today in hopes that it would help, but it smoked even more then when I had 5w30 in it. This makes me think the oil cannot drain out fast enough because it's thicker. But, my crankcase pressure should be out of the equation with this PCV setup and good leak down test results.

I've also got the BNR s4 specific banjo bolt installed.

Last week I had the turbo out to clock it for under route piping. I checked for shaft play and noticed no IN and OUT play, but ever so slight up and down play. I assumed that such little play would be for heat expansion. The turbo spun freely without any issues that stood out to me.

It's quite embarrassing when I feel like doing a pull and totally plume everybody behind me lol

I'm getting to the point now where I'm actually thinking of making an enlarged oil drain line, and porting out the oil drain hole on the turbo.

I feel like I'm the only one with this issue because google searches turn up with nothing. Does anyone else with a BNR s4 have this problem?

I'm not enjoying the idea of having to ship the turbo out to BNR for diagnosis as that would be quite a bit of down time.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 @Jeff23spl; @Polish_Eagle; @Solarsurge; @Fstrnyou; @pwdunmore; @Djohns; @afronese1; @Yllib30; Ok so another update. I installed a DM PCV plate and this is my exact setup: Attachment 236249 Compression is 180 psi across the board, and cylinder leakage is less 2% with the engine warm. During WOT or anything near it, the oil seems to push past the seals and blow whitish grey smoke. Then when I shift and coast in the next gear, I see significant white smoke with a blue tinge out the back. It eventually dissipates back to normal once I commence cruising. I switched back to Rotella T6 5w40 today in hopes that it would help, but it smoked even more then when I had 5w30 in it. This makes me think the oil cannot drain out fast enough because it's thicker. But, my crankcase pressure should be out of the equation with this PCV setup and good leak down test results. I've also got the BNR s4 specific banjo bolt installed. Last week I had the turbo out to clock it for under route piping. I checked for shaft play and noticed no IN and OUT play, but ever so slight up and down play. I assumed that such little play would be for heat expansion. The turbo spun freely without any issues that stood out to me. It's quite embarrassing when I feel like doing a pull and totally plume everybody behind me lol I'm getting to the point now where I'm actually thinking of making an enlarged oil drain line, and porting out the oil drain hole on the turbo. I feel like I'm the only one with this issue because google searches turn up with nothing. Does anyone else with a BNR s4 have this problem? I'm not enjoying the idea of having to ship the turbo out to BNR for diagnosis as that would be quite a bit of down time.

I can’t stress this enough... make sure ALL your hoses are clear and make sure they are gravity fed. I opened the drainage valve on the bottom of my OCC and it was bone dry, which I found odd. I pulled the crank case breather hose off and blew into it and it gurgled and out spewed a bunch of shit through the catch can.


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[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge I can’t stress this enough... make sure ALL your hoses are clear and make sure they are gravity fed. I opened the drainage valve on the bottom of my OCC and it was bone dry, which I found odd. I pulled the crank case breather hose off and blew into it and it gurgled and out spewed a bunch of shit through the catch can.

Oh wow that's interesting. I noticed the same thing today when I switched back to 5w40.

I opened both catch cans, and only oil came out of the can connected to the intake manifold.

The other can connected to the two big ports on the PCV plate had absolutely nothing in it. That is so weird!

I will have to check those lines. But, I don't see how they would be blocked as I just installed them about 3 weeks ago and it is summer.

Are you still having smoking issues?

[Solarsurge]

Side note: I'm not sure what your hand written lines are. If you modify the routing, then it's a different route. It looks like you're T'd between the breather hose and the TIP down to the catch can? You're asking a WHOLE LOT from the venturi from the intake to suck hard enough to pull air from a VENTED crank case at 3 different points. I dunno about that. If you stick to the proven Damond routing diagrams, you get Damond results. If you deviate from the program, you get what you get.

Route 4 is the way to go. Hands down.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge Side note: I'm not sure what your hand written lines are. If you modify the routing, then it's a different route. It looks like you're T'd between the breather hose and the TIP down to the catch can? You're asking a WHOLE LOT from the venturi from the intake to suck hard enough to pull air from a VENTED crank case at 3 different points. I dunno about that. If you stick to the proven Damond routing diagrams, you get Damond results. If you deviate from the program, you get what you get.

BNR actually recommended that I tap into the inlet for added vacuum, but I can see what you mean. It may be better with its own port on the inlet.

I'll try removing that tee'd in hose and see what happens If not I will try route 4. Are you having any issues with that PCV setup and smoking, or are you a happy camper now? Thanks!

[Solarsurge]

BNR also recommended that stupid restrictor bolt because I was smoking. It's a journal bearing turbo. Journal bearing turbos need BOTH enough oil and proper flow. Your crank case pressure is stopping the oil from draining, CREATING the flow issue. I have gone back to the stock bolt and proper PCV ventilation...zero smoke. I do have premature shaft play, however. Just like you. I'm sure it was caused by oil starvation when the crank case is NOT pressurized. My conclusion is if you fix the PCV issues, you fix the smoke. No bolt required. But that's my experience.

Edit: Also, one more thing worth mentioning...I have reason to believe that the 3" intake is just not enough intake for the BNR S4 v2. I went to 3.5" intake and the BNR S4 transformed immediately and has never been happier. I have better throttle response, faster spool, no overboost, and normal spring pressure.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge BNR also recommended that stupid restrictor bolt because I was smoking. It's a journal bearing turbo. Journal bearing turbos need BOTH enough oil and proper flow. Your crank case pressure is stopping the oil from draining, CREATING the flow issue. I have gone back to the stock bolt and proper PCV ventilation...zero smoke. I do have premature shaft play, however. Just like you. I'm sure it was caused by oil starvation when the crank case is NOT pressurized. My conclusion is if you fix the PCV issues, you fix the smoke. No bolt required. But that's my experience. Edit: Also, one more thing worth mentioning...I have reason to believe that the 3" intake is just not enough intake for the BNR S4 v2. I went to 3.5" intake and the BNR S4 transformed immediately and has never been happier. I have better throttle response, faster spool, no overboost, and normal spring pressure.

Thanks for the help man! I will look deeper into my PCV setup and maybe run route 4, re install the stock banjo bolt, and look into a 3.5 inch intake and report back!

[Jeff23spl]

You can test your breather system by installing a low range pressure gage to it and check if it gets positive under wot. This could be a good information back to Bnr just in case they chase your install.

I was going to say the same as Solarsurge. You have 1 restriction point in our breather system, the T. Add a second port in the TIH and pipe it there.
Also, Inside your valve cover there is a plate with vented hole. (Gen1 cover) It comes from factory with scealant at some place but.... not everywhere. I know about a guy that played there to enlarge the breathing holes and scealed it so well that after the first pull, it made an heavy smoke. He solved it just by installing sceallant at the right place...

I would also agree that your intake may be small. If that create vacuum at turbo inlet:
1 it reduce the turbo efficiency because it need more compression ratio to output the same boost.
2 it give more load on the bearing thrust (You don't have play yet but in a long terme use, turbo surge is bad)
3 Vaccuum on one side of the seal and oil pressure on the other side help for a oil transfert that will be consumed by the engine. Look for oil on the compressor side...
With just an old GT2871 i had the oem intake at first (Waiting for a HTP intake) and got turbo surge at spool. Installed a 3.25'' ID intake and it made a huge difference for turbo spool and surge. Assuming the S4 flow a lot more, it would be happier with larger than 3''.
Make sure the filter element is clean and large enough too.

Then if it still smoke, the turbo is bad.

[Fstrnyou]

Something to consider about the "special" OCC routing.

The PCV/manifold can is fine. However, I don't see check valves in the other system.
"Why check valves?", you ask.
Under idle, part throttle, no boost...manifold vacuum will be far greater than TIP vacuum. The likely scenario you created will pull air from your TIP, thru that OCC, into the PCV plate, back out the PCV valve, thru the other OCC, and into the manifold. This won't cause any trimming issues since it's all metered air, but I'm not sure what the insides of these cans look like to determine if backwards flow is okay. Also not sure if using both OCC ports as inlets is okay. Again, depends on the internal baffling and such.

If your valve cover breather does not have a check valve, then I'd say you have a serious vacuum leak.
If any crank case venting is routed to a vacuum source, then ALL routings that connect to atmosphere must have a check valve. And of course any routing connected to a potential boost source must also have a check valve to prevent pressurizing the crankcase.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Something to consider about the "special" OCC routing. The PCV/manifold can is fine. However, I don't see check valves in the other system. "Why check valves?", you ask. Under idle, part throttle, no boost...manifold vacuum will be far greater than TIP vacuum. The likely scenario you created will pull air from your TIP, thru that OCC, into the PCV plate, back out the PCV valve, thru the other OCC, and into the manifold. This won't cause any trimming issues since it's all metered air, but I'm not sure what the insides of these cans look like to determine if backwards flow is okay. Also not sure if using both OCC ports as inlets is okay. Again, depends on the internal baffling and such. If your valve cover breather does not have a check valve, then I'd say you have a serious vacuum leak. If any crank case venting is routed to a vacuum source, then ALL routings that connect to atmosphere must have a check valve. And of course any routing connected to a potential boost source must also have a check valve to prevent pressurizing the crankcase.

The second catch can has a check valve on top of it, so if vacuum at the manifold pulls air from the turbo inlet the check valve on top of the can will close.

Either way, after getting good advice from you guys I decided to put the stock banjo bolt back in. I then drove the car and did some pulls. No smoke to report This was with the PCV setup that I posted above.

I then decided to remove the hose from the top of the second can that was tee'd into the turbo inlet, re installed the debris filter on the can, and ran a new hose from the VC to intake. Still no smoke to report aside from the rich AFR at WOT. Decelerating in the next gear after a pull also looks good.

Right now the smoking seems to have been resolved but I will keep monitoring it.

How I think it unfolded, which caused a lot of confusion:

I installed the BNR s4.
Only had a sealed OCC with check valve.
Noticed lots of smoke and oil consumption.
Installed a JBR oil restrictor bolt. Still had smoke.
Installed an SP63 oil breather cap. Still had smoke.
Replaced sealed catch can for a DM vented can. Still had smoke.
Contacted BNR and installed s4 specific restrictor bolt. Still had smoke.
Installed a DM PCV plate with second vented catch can utilizing route 3. Still had smoke.
Re installed stock banjo bolt. No more smoke.

Like you were saying, this turbo seems to need enough oil being fed to the journal bearings to keep the shaft and turbine seal straight. At the same time the crankcase pressure needs to be relieved. It seems the first mistake I made was installing a restrictor bolt which may have been causing the seal to leak due to the shaft potentially tilting slightly out of center. It seems this turbo needs enough oil between the bearings and shaft to keep the shaft straight/centered, and the turbine seal sealed. I may have been ok with just the SP63 breather cap for crankcase pressure relief :/

I think the lesson here for anyone with this issue, is not to run an oil restrictor bolt at all, and just start with relieving crankcase pressure effectively and go from there

Thank you @Solarsurge; for pointing me in the right direction! I will continue to monitor this and report back if anything comes up.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 The second catch can has a check valve on top of it, so if vacuum at the manifold pulls air from the turbo inlet the check valve on top of the can will close. Either way, after getting good advice from you guys I decided to put the stock banjo bolt back in. I then drove the car and did some pulls. No smoke to report This was with the PCV setup that I posted above. I then decided to remove the hose from the top of the second can that was tee'd into the turbo inlet, re installed the debris filter on the can, and ran a new hose from the VC to intake. Still no smoke to report aside from the rich AFR at WOT. Decelerating in the next gear after a pull also looks good. Right now the smoking seems to have been resolved but I will keep monitoring it. How I think it unfolded, which caused a lot of confusion: I installed the BNR s4. Only had a sealed OCC with check valve. Noticed lots of smoke and oil consumption. Installed a JBR oil restrictor bolt. Still had smoke. Installed an SP63 oil breather cap. Still had smoke. Replaced sealed catch can for a DM vented can. Still had smoke. Contacted BNR and installed s4 specific restrictor bolt. Still had smoke. Installed a DM PCV plate with second vented catch can utilizing route 3. Still had smoke. Re installed stock banjo bolt. No more smoke. Like you were saying, this turbo seems to need enough oil being fed to the journal bearings to keep the shaft and turbine seal straight. At the same time the crankcase pressure needs to be relieved. It seems the first mistake I made was installing a restrictor bolt which may have been causing the seal to leak due to the shaft potentially tilting slightly out of center. It seems this turbo needs enough oil between the bearings and shaft to keep the shaft straight/centered, and the turbine seal sealed. I may have been ok with just the SP63 breather cap for crankcase pressure relief :/ I think the lesson here for anyone with this issue, is not to run an oil restrictor bolt at all, and just start with relieving crankcase pressure effectively and go from there Thank you @Solarsurge; for pointing me in the right direction! I will continue to monitor this and report back if anything comes up.

Just to clarify for anyone who may read this, no bolt only with a journal bearing turbo. You need a restrictor with a ball bearing turbo.


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[TDubTheSubBub]

I am doing a BNR S4 install currently and seeing this terrifies me. I have stock pcv and compression is good, stock banjo bolt, what would you recommend I do to prevent this once my car is running again?

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by TDubTheSubBub I am doing a BNR S4 install currently and seeing this terrifies me. I have stock pcv and compression is good, stock banjo bolt, what would you recommend I do to prevent this once my car is running again?

It depends on many variables. Proper crank case ventilation via dual catch cans and proper routing is the best way to solve the problem permanently, but others have had success using only breathers and what not. I hope you’re running at least a 3.5” intake, though.

[TDubTheSubBub]

Yeah 3.5" JBR widepath. Truth is I really don't have that much money left over and can't really afford $400 for dual occs. Would have to choose between that and a tune and well, duh.

[mituc]

You may want to check with Brian from BNR and make sure you have the right banjo bolt for your turbo.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by mituc You may want to check with Brian from BNR and make sure you have the right banjo bolt for your turbo.

My turbo is off at BNR right now getting serviced after only 2k miles due to shaft play directly as a result of the restrictor bolt that BNR supplied me. I’m just glad I found out while it’s still under the warranty. NEVER use a restrictor bolt on a journal bearing turbo. But hell, don’t take my word for it. Here’s a nice little video made by Precision Turbo that explains the do’s and don’ts of turbos. You’ll find the relevant info at the 3:30 mark.

https://youtu.be/yve303tuaHo


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[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge My turbo is off at BNR right now getting serviced after only 2k miles due to shaft play directly as a result of the restrictor bolt that BNR supplied me. I’m just glad I found out while it’s still under the warranty. NEVER use a restrictor bolt on a journal bearing turbo. But hell, don’t take my word for it. Here’s a nice little video made by Precision Turbo that explains the do’s and don’ts of turbos. You’ll find the relevant info at the 3:30 mark. https://youtu.be/yve303tuaHo

This is my current PCV setup:

Custom PCV_route_4_grande.png

I'm thinking that I might also have some irreversible damage to the bearings from running a restrictor bolt, because even after an over kill PCV setup, it still blows blueish white smoke. More so when going WOT quickly instead of gradually, and quite a bit under high rpm deceleration without going into boost prior. Idle and part throttle cruising are pretty good so it's not like it's always a smoke show lol. If I mostly cruise around, I virtually never have to top up the oil.

How has your S4 been holding up after the rebuilt? I'm considering sending mine in, or just buying a new CHRA with the V3 comp wheel.