BNR Stage 1 Inquiry

[theurgy]

Hey guys,

This may seem like a stupid question and barring all the previous posts which I've tried to find on this forum before asking.
I've been researching doing a BNR Stage 1 rebuild on a spare K04 I now have however I have a few questions still lingering which will affect my future plans.

This upgrade in question (for those who don't know) is this:
BNR Supercars - Bryan Nickell's Rotary Supercars - Mazdaspeed3/Mazdaspeed6/CX7

From what I understand is they take a K04 core, machine it out and stick a GT28RS CHRA (Disco Potato!!!).

What I'm curious about is will I have to do any additional tuning to make this work?
Meaning are the specs for this turbo close enough that the stock ECU map will auto adjust to it or will I need to get a Cobb AP with ATR to take advantage of it?
How about spark plugs and injectors?
Timing adjustments?

What I'm more or less looking for is a bolt on replacement for the K04 that is more solid and no chance of smoking.

Also, to the people who already have this in their cars, I would like some realistic impressions.
I'm not planning to do this until next spring anyhow, so I have time to plan and make sure I execute this correctly.

[cld12pk2go]

The stock turbo can support 34 lbs/min of flow. The GT2860 can only do 35 lbs/min. That is barely an upgrade on the compressor side.

Of course the S1, S2, and S3 all have the same hot side that is much better than the stock K04 for flow and shouldn't smoke.

I am a big fan of the BNR S3 (45 lbs/min), but there is really no reason to get either the S1 or S2 in my opinion as for only a little more money you get a turbo that is a drop in that can push close to 400whp.

You will totally need tuning to take full advantage of any of these. The AP with ATR is where it is at.

[WWPearlMS6]

Does it require a tune? For example if i wanted to could I install a BNR stage 3 Turbo on my car without a tune and expect it to run normally as it did before the larger turbo. Or would it damage my car? I'm wondering so that i can get it with a AP but than remove the accessport if i go in for service etc. I still have an extended warranty.

[mo4130]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Does it require a tune? For example if i wanted to could I install a BNR stage 3 Turbo on my car without a tune and expect it to run normally as it did before the larger turbo. Or would it damage my car? I'm wondering so that i can get it with a AP but than remove the accessport if i go in for service etc. I still have an extended warranty.

Short answer yes you would need a tune.

If you really want to get into new turbos and what not, I recommend you do some serious research on the options for this car, both in parts and tuning. If you are talking about big turbos, don't even worry about the extended warranty, because they wont honor it.

[m4tic]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Does it require a tune? For example if i wanted to could I install a BNR stage 3 Turbo on my car without a tune and expect it to run normally as it did before the larger turbo. Or would it damage my car? I'm wondering so that i can get it with a AP but than remove the accessport if i go in for service etc. I still have an extended warranty.

untuned WGA is too much for a larger turbo... or get an MBC and stick to ~15-16psi (if you can run that little boost)

[atvfreek]

If you are thinkin big turbo, get an AP. There is so much to be unlocked with this car stock, nevermind adding full bolt ons and bigger turbo.

Even if your car is starting to smoke at idle, you can raise idle rpm with the AP and solve that issue.

Not sure what your plans or goals are with this car, but first step I can recommend to anyone is get a way to monitor your car/tuner.

Thank you cold12pk2go, I've been trying for the life of me to figure out how to read compressor maps and what they flow. Still don't know how but, now know how much more the bnr stage3 flows over stock. Ive been eying that sucker.

Sent from my MB300 using Tapatalk

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by atvfreek If you are thinkin big turbo, get an AP. There is so much to be unlocked with this car stock, nevermind adding full bolt ons and bigger turbo. Even if your car is starting to smoke at idle, you can raise idle rpm with the AP and solve that issue. Not sure what your plans or goals are with this car, but first step I can recommend to anyone is get a way to monitor your car/tuner. Thank you cold12pk2go, I've been trying for the life of me to figure out how to read compressor maps and what they flow. Still don't know how but, now know how much more the bnr stage3 flows over stock. Ive been eying that sucker. Sent from my MB300 using Tapatalk

Read and learn:

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech103

[rfinkle2]

@atvfreek... lots of compressor map tidbits by cld12pk2go here...

(he also tuned this car)

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-419wtq-86023/

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Read and learn: TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech103

I was actually on that site last night and only made it to Turbo Tech 102. Lol
. Time to start reading.

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @atvfreek... lots of compressor map tidbits by cld12pk2go here... (he also tuned this car) http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-419wtq-86023/

Thanks Rob! Thats a good thread with lots of info.

[theurgy]

Again.. it's a great discussion but running a stage 2 or 3 are not my goal.
I want a simple, more rigid stock looking drop in.

I have no issues getting a tune for it, I currently have the Piasini ECU reflash at the moment (unsure if it will accommodate for a Stage 1).
Either way, I can explore the option of getting a Cobb Accessport if I need one, however if a Stage 1 is meant to be a simple drop in replacement with no tune needed, I'd like that.
Otherwise, I might also explore the simple option of just getting my spare K04 rebuilt to new.

[blkspeed307]

BNR stage 1 is a drop in turbo for running with stock tune spoke to Bryan not too long ago about it. But anything else you'll need tuning.

[theurgy]

When you say anything else.. do you mean Stage 2 or Stage 3?
Good to hear that it will run with a stock tune.

[Domino81]

See, I was thinking of running a stage 1, too. It's a straight bolt on and I can make 320whp safely. I guess I don't want too much to modify.

[blkspeed307]

Yhea stage 2 & 3 definitely need a tune to get the most out of better efficiency from turbo & to prevent any problems.

[blkspeed307]

It's a pricey replacement for stock turbo performance but I wouldnt mind paying more 2 get a simple & more reliable bolt on turbo.
Me personally I have this waiting to send to bnr for a stage 2 I don't need crazy amounts of power or added headaches with upgrading 2 many things on the mzr motor.

[theurgy]

Yeah I just bought this guy from another MSF.org member.
I'm thinking sometime next spring I'll have it sent in to BNR.
I don't want anything that will be a huge power adder, I find my power is great at the moment. I just want true daily driver reliability, and I believe a GT2860 CHRA is my best option.

[writhen]

Originally Posted by theurgy Yeah I just bought this guy from another MSF.org member. I'm thinking sometime next spring I'll have it sent in to BNR. I don't want anything that will be a huge power adder, I find my power is great at the moment. I just want true daily driver reliability, and I believe a GT2860 CHRA is my best option.

I'm going the BNR3 route as well most probably, next spring as well. Live on van island, seen you on bcmazda3, we should meet up and see if we can do the install ourselves.

[theurgy]

Sounds good...

[Domino81]

What would you need to install/add over a stage 1 vs stage 2?

[theurgy]

That's a good question, I'm curious about that too.
What I wonder is, what's a proper upgrade and dependencies plan for each of the stages for these turbos?
Like if a Stage 1 is a pure drop in replacement with no tuning, and if a Stage 2 requires colder plugs, fuel pump upgrade and tuning.. that kind of thing.

Anyone here with input would be appreciated. Has anyone here installed a Stage 1 or Stage 2?

[Domino81]

Fuel pump upgrade if you're planning running anymore than stock boost from what I'm told. Approaching 260+ and you're asking for trouble. Which I'm OK with. It'll give me piece of mind. Intercooler upgrades, plugs (I already run ITV22's) and a tune would be almost esential for either. I mean hardware for the turbo. EWG? You'll need a different TIP. That much I know. Stage 1 is as close to stock as you can get. But I imagine you could get away with tossing it in stock and running stock boost levels, etc. But I don't know.

[writhen]

Why would you need a different tip if its the k04 housing??

[theurgy]

Stage 2 does upgrade the compressor housing.

[writhen]

Originally Posted by theurgy Stage 2 does upgrade the compressor housing.

Right, so what tip options are there for the bigger housing?

[rfinkle2]

Has anyone ever invited the owner of BNR to become a vendor / member?

There is a lot of guys interested in his turbos, and it may benefit him and msf if he would drop by.

[theurgy]

I know that CP-e makes a larger inlet TIP for just this reason.

[Domino81]

Originally Posted by theurgy I know that CP-e makes a larger inlet TIP for just this reason.

This.

MZR 2.3 Nviscid

That.

[laxplayermjd]

i was told you can get a cobb tip to fit on the inlet with a little effort. Thats what the msf stig did.

And i do think bnr has been on here and made some posts. I dont think hes become a vendor tho.

that cp-e big tip is too large i think. Thats for gt3071 etc

[zenger]

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd i was told you can get a cobb tip to fit on the inlet with a little effort. Thats what the msf stig did. And i do think bnr has been on here and made some posts. I dont think hes become a vendor tho. that cp-e big tip is too large i think. Thats for gt3071 etc

this is correct the stock style tip will fit on the stage III

[shadesofgray19]

All BNR turbos are bolt on, works with stock inlet pipe, tmic, and exhaust mani. It is recommended that you have a fuel pump and AP if you go stage II, well at least to get the most out of it. I honestly think you could run a stage II on the stock tune, but why would you want to?

[cyber-ms3]

So in order to take advantage of the benefits of S2 or S3 an upgraded CDFP and tune is necessary?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by cyber-ms3 So in order to take advantage of the benefits of S2 or S3 an upgraded CDFP and tune is necessary?

The same is true for the stock K04.

[theurgy]

That is correct.

[cyber-ms3]

Sorry for trying to get clarification, I have a stock turbo with an ETS TMIC, AP with OTS tune, CP-E nano intake and inlet, stock turbo-back. I don't have time to work with ATR. What could I potentially install with current mods and also see improvement?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by cyber-ms3 Sorry for trying to get clarification, I have a stock turbo with an ETS TMIC, AP with OTS tune, CP-E nano intake and inlet, stock turbo-back. I don't have time to work with ATR. What could I potentially install with current mods and also see improvement?

I would suggest getting a downpipe + HPFP.

However, a proper tune will give you much more power than the downpipe.

[XRJoe]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go I would suggest getting a downpipe + HPFP. However, a proper tune will give you much more power than the downpipe.

And safer which at the end of the day, a running car is always faster than one with an aerated block.

For the guys questioning the upgrade. I think the Stage 1 is for people looking for an OEM replacement, never want more power, just want more reliability and no smoke.

Stage 3 is nice is the halfway step between BT and stock. Easier than a BT setup because not much else around the snail has to change, but you get the extra CFM to increase efficiency and power.

In all cases, AP + HPFP should be on the list of things before you start looking at turbo upgrades. Optimize what you have and set a solid framework before you start blowing harder on the car.

[XRJoe]

Not a power improvement, but a great safety measure at this point would be an upgraded HPFP. It will position you for any further mods down the road like a catless DP, turbo upgrade, etc.

[cyber-ms3]

Originally Posted by XRJoe Not a power improvement, but a great safety measure at this point would be an upgraded HPFP. It will position you for any further mods down the road like a catless DP, turbo upgrade, etc.

I'm working on that one. I wanted to know in terms of BNR upgrades.

[mo4130]

So I would imagine, if stage one works with a stock tune then it would work with a HT?

[theurgy]

^^^ What this guy said, you're best to get the HPFP as your stepping stone mod.