BNR and TMIC upgrade or JUST a FMIC?

[timjustindodd]

So I currently have the following items installed:

2006 Mazdaspeed 6 85,000 miles
Cobb AP, HPFP, Corksport DP and test pipe, CP-E intake, forge BPV (Not installed), NGK Iridium IX's

The car runs ok, but none of the maps seem to fit my mods, the tunes feel very rough with the car having a rough idle and occasionally I hit some kind of fuel cut if doing a low RPM WOT run, like a 3rd gear at 2,500 RPM...

My end goal is to have just over 300 Awhp while continuing to be a reliable DD. I would like to be able to make a good clean pass in the mid 13's and over 100 mph with out a hard abusive launch...

I'm starting to really see the white smoke coming from my turbo and decided it really seems like a good turbo replacement could go a long ways. Once I get a few more things installed, I'd like to have a good tune done and be done with it. So that's where I'm at... here's what I KNOW I need to do still:

EGR delete/block off
CP-E injector seals
Upgrade the intercooler
3 port EBC (not sure exactly why I need this... but I sure see them a lot)

The big debate:

Go BNR Stage 3 and just do a corksport TMIC

Keep the stock turbo and do a Corksport Power Series FMIC with ram airbox (I think that looks soooo sick and so clean) (DOES ANYONE HAVE ONE?!?!) I haven't seen ANYTHING on the boards about them, and YES I've searched.

OR save up and do both, a BNR stage 3 and a big FMIC?...


And as far as tuning goes, I'm in the shit middle of Iowa, no good tuners. Sounds like stratified is a good option to get a nice reliable tune. YAY? NAY?

Thanks guys. I've been searching and searching and searching, but I haven't got specific answers for these. Your input is MUCH appreciated, I'd love to hear what you think is good. I know you've all taken slightly different paths and would love to know what you recommend.

[dealerjohn1]

for me the CS intercooler keeping the stock shroud is a nice sleeper touch and the BNR using the stock"ish" turbo are the way to go in case you ever get your hood opened by the cops and or a smog station, since I live in Cali...but thats my .02

[Yatta]

People seem to love their FMIC's and I don't doubt they have more thermal mass but they also have more bends and more couplers, with the gen 1 vehicles it might be more important as you don't have a scoop but I will be going the route of a improved TMIC; throttle response is important to me as its a daily driver, as is the reduction is pressure drop (you will pick up some headrooom for the turbo as it will have to work less to produce the same amount of boost) though I suppose this could be addressed by adding something like a synapse DV (it will bypass boost when throttle is closed but will also bypass the turbo while not under boost so your intake path is shorter pre spool).


You are at 85k miles if your on the original turbo you will likely have to replace it sooner or later either way so the BNR is really a great choice for a painless upgrade, the 3 port EBC will require some tweaks in AP, but will get you better control over boost with very precise (no premature partial opening of the waste gate) opening and closing of the wastegate.

EGR block and OCC combined, while you're at it you might as well start fresh and clean up your intake valves, after doing EGR and OCC they should stay clean for a while, search the threads; DISI motors and the PCV systems make a mess.

As far as Stratified Tuning is concerned, I am running the stage 2 OTS that they coupled with JBR intakes, really woke me (and my genpu) up and is saving me 2 to 3 mpg on average (it sounds small but its huge when you drive 90 miles a day)
if/when I decide to get an etune it will very likely be with them.

opinions, you will certainly get more

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by dealerjohn1 for me the CS intercooler keeping the stock shroud is a nice sleeper touch and the BNR using the stock"ish" turbo are the way to go in case you ever get your hood opened by the cops and or a smog station, since I live in Cali...but thats my .02

That was the reason and the route I took.

Before you upgrade turbos, I would do a compression test and a leakdown if necessary. No reason to upgrade turbos if your engine isn't healthy. I am not a fan of FMIC myself but others seem to like theirs.

If you go the beaner route, there are many tuners who have experience with it. @Lex; did a lot of work with mine and he has one on his car as well.

As far as the Corksport Ram Air kit goes, the idea was great but the final product looks like Jank. The airbox is just a square plastic box with heat shielding around it. The couplers and the piping are ass, but I could say that about a lot of the FMIC kits. If they would redesign the air box, make the MAF housing 3" +, and provide better pipes and couplers, it could be awesome.

Sent via stocked out for a while ...

[timjustindodd]

Anyone else have any experience with Stratified or with a Corksport Power Series FMIC?

[Dmurray06]

Stock IC + Meth = Win

And a Custom tune.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Anyone else have any experience with Stratified or with a Corksport Power Series FMIC?

The Corksport FMIC (not the ram air version / sorry Corksport) is a decent option, but I would be all over a simple meth kit and Corksport or ETS TMIC if I was not going to autocross or track the car heavily.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 Stock IC + Meth = Win

^^^^ every time I see someone mention meth I think of crazed maniacs who don't sleep, then I am reminded that its methamphetamine..... (I joke, I joke) stock IC with Meth is a good end game, BAT's lower than ambient?

[Dmurray06]

Originally Posted by Yatta ^^^^ every time I see someone mention meth I think of crazed maniacs who don't sleep, then I am reminded that its methamphetamine..... (I joke, I joke) stock IC with Meth is a good end game, BAT's lower than ambient?

Depends on alot...what your running meth vs. Distilled h2O...size of nozzle...etc...

Also...if your looking for 300awhp, you may need either meth or e85 anyway.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Yatta ^^^^ every time I see someone mention meth I think of crazed maniacs who don't sleep, then I am reminded that its methamphetamine..... (I joke, I joke) stock IC with Meth is a good end game, BAT's lower than ambient?

I'm working with a guy right now who is running a D10 with the stock tmic.

He is looking into a fmic, but a tmic is a good option as well.

He is comfortably @ 375, but could use an intercooler upgrade for multiple wot runs.

[phahengpro]

I just started a tune w/ Lex. I live in OKC, and I would not let anyone around here tune my car. I know a guy who worked for one of the Honda motorsports shops in town. He swore I should leave everything stock because the motors on the Speeds are maxed. Oh really? STFU!!! Alex has been quite helpful to this point. I am sure it will be all good. Stratified FTFW!!!

[timjustindodd]

Anyone else out there have experience with the Corksport Power Series FMIC ram air kit? It just looks soooo good. I'm considering just doing a TMIC just to save money, but that kit just looks so damn good.

[MS309]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Anyone else out there have experience with the Corksport Power Series FMIC ram air kit? It just looks soooo good. I'm considering just doing a TMIC just to save money, but that kit just looks so damn good.

Spotted in edmonton thread swinger13 just put together his setup, BT with CS ram air and FMIC on his speed6.

I'm using the same kit, I got tuned by Lex on it. its not bad, but I do agree it should be coupled with a 3" inlet and MAF ...

idk if Swinger13 has taken any logs with this setup yet.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Anyone else out there have experience with the Corksport Power Series FMIC ram air kit? It just looks soooo good. I'm considering just doing a TMIC just to save money, but that kit just looks so damn good.

There was ine more thing I forgot to add. On the gen one, we had to hack off the upper right corner to make clearance for the piping (not the part that covers the filter but the piece that covers the hpfp.



Sent via stocked out for a while ...

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Anyone else out there have experience with the Corksport Power Series FMIC ram air kit? It just looks soooo good. I'm considering just doing a TMIC just to save money, but that kit just looks so damn good.

@Ckmazdaspeed3; when you have a moment, could you share your experience with the Corksport ram air kit (once again, sorry Corksport).

@timjustindodd; unless they have revamped the entire kit, please consider something else.

[nybe0010]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd So I currently have the following items installed: 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 85,000 miles Cobb AP, HPFP, Corksport DP and test pipe, CP-E intake, forge BPV (Not installed), NGK Iridium IX's The car runs ok, but none of the maps seem to fit my mods, the tunes feel very rough with the car having a rough idle and occasionally I hit some kind of fuel cut if doing a low RPM WOT run, like a 3rd gear at 2,500 RPM... My end goal is to have just over 300 Awhp while continuing to be a reliable DD. I would like to be able to make a good clean pass in the mid 13's and over 100 mph with out a hard abusive launch... I'm starting to really see the white smoke coming from my turbo and decided it really seems like a good turbo replacement could go a long ways. Once I get a few more things installed, I'd like to have a good tune done and be done with it. So that's where I'm at... here's what I KNOW I need to do still: EGR delete/block off CP-E injector seals Upgrade the intercooler 3 port EBC (not sure exactly why I need this... but I sure see them a lot) The big debate: Go BNR Stage 3 and just do a corksport TMIC Keep the stock turbo and do a Corksport Power Series FMIC with ram airbox (I think that looks soooo sick and so clean) (DOES ANYONE HAVE ONE?!?!) I haven't seen ANYTHING on the boards about them, and YES I've searched. OR save up and do both, a BNR stage 3 and a big FMIC?... And as far as tuning goes, I'm in the shit middle of Iowa, no good tuners. Sounds like stratified is a good option to get a nice reliable tune. YAY? NAY? Thanks guys. I've been searching and searching and searching, but I haven't got specific answers for these. Your input is MUCH appreciated, I'd love to hear what you think is good. I know you've all taken slightly different paths and would love to know what you recommend.

OCC along with that EGR and motor mounts something to think about.

[alex_speed13]

Originally Posted by Yatta ^^^^ every time I see someone mention meth I think of crazed maniacs who don't sleep, then I am reminded that its methamphetamine..... (I joke, I joke) stock IC with Meth is a good end game, BAT's lower than ambient?

Heisenberg...

I'm actually in the same situation, im already getting pieces (just bought off @Lex ebcs and getting some stuff from edge asap, turbo hopefully is on the way) but im staying on the ETS for a while being the main reason $$$$$ (if i go FMIC, it will be either CPe delta, or COBB v2, Corksport is pretty descent but i dont know why i think the core is a bit smaller... havent check dimensions, will do later on)

@atvfreek had an ets on when he just got his bnr, he pulled some power till he found it limiting, but he's running meth (not Heisenberg's) just as everyone here recommends.

[atvfreek]

Go BNR, and TMIC. The two perform awesome together. FMIC is nice if doing track events, but for DD duty, the TMIC performs perfectly fine.

[mdd5148]

Why injector seals? Not sure you need them at your power levels (experts chime in) I am running a GT3076 without them.

[Nefarion]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @Ckmazdaspeed3; when you have a moment, could you share your experience with the Corksport ram air kit (once again, sorry Corksport). @timjustindodd; unless they have revamped the entire kit, please consider something else.

i ran the corksport ram air fmic and will give my review of it -- it sucks. At first i had the ram air on instead of the SRI. It was impossible to get my afrs under control from both me and Socks (my tuner). I switched back to the sri option (corksport stage 2 sri) and reloaded my maf cal. The car runs fine (this is how i run it as of today) but my problem is that corksport uses 2in intercooler piping, and routes the piping down the drivers side (near the intake). This makes it impossible for me to upgrade to a bigger intake. Corksport also failed to put a bracket on the hot side piping like cobb and others do, which causes my piping to shake and rattle everywhere under WOT. In the near future i plan to switch to either cobbs piping or a custom piping that is 2.5" or larger, routed down the passenger side, and has a bracket. I plan to keep the corksport core though until i go BT. The core is fine as it is and i dont see wasting money on a big core on a K04.

[MS309]

Originally Posted by Nefarion i ran the corksport ram air fmic and will give my review of it -- it sucks. At first i had the ram air on instead of the SRI. It was impossible to get my afrs under control from both me and Socks (my tuner). I switched back to the sri option (corksport stage 2 sri) and reloaded my maf cal. The car runs fine (this is how i run it as of today) but my problem is that corksport uses 2in intercooler piping, and routes the piping down the drivers side (near the intake). This makes it impossible for me to upgrade to a bigger intake. Corksport also failed to put a bracket on the hot side piping like cobb and others do, which causes my piping to shake and rattle everywhere under WOT. In the near future i plan to switch to either cobbs piping or a custom piping that is 2.5" or larger, routed down the passenger side, and has a bracket. I plan to keep the corksport core though until i go BT. The core is fine as it is and i dont see wasting money on a big core on a K04.

I've had no problems with AFR's, before and after being tuned by Lex.

[silvapain]

The limitation of the stock TMIC isn't just heat, it's also flow. If you plan on really pushing the BNR I'd upgrade to a Corksport TMIC for less pressure loss. If you are just going to keep it in the low 300's as far as WHp, stick with the stock intercooler for now. A FMIC isn't necessary at all unless you go full retard with the BNR or go up to the GT30 turbos and above. FWIW, I saw no power increase by going from the stock TMIC to an ETS TMIC on the K04 with E85.

You need a 3-port EBCS because the WGA on the BNR has only one port on it.

Removing the EGR valve isn't necessary, but it certainly frees up room in the engine bay.

Based on others running BNRs on here, I'd suggest a 3" intake/TIP. Either JBR or my personal favorite HTP.

[fivefingerdeathpunch]

i didnt read everyone's responses......

BNR + tmic.
hate the k04. its a bigger restriction than the tmic to fmic difference. plus you wont smoke. holding boost to redline is just really really nice.

corksport fmic with RAM AIR is meh. ive heard people have had weird maf cal issues with them. the corksport fmic with sri is good though. but even still i think the bnr is a better choice if you are considering swapping turbos. the bnr will get you 300 with ease. k04 will get you 300 as well but probably with e85 or meth.

[Lex]

Here is my suggestion for a nice setup, good power, and driveability:

- Don't remove the EGR and don't get injectors seals if the current ones are fine.
- Get a BNRS3
- Along with it get the Boost Dial (and keep your OEM 2 port) OR a 3 Port but for driveability and smoothness the Boost Dial wins there.
- If you want around 320-330whp on pump 93 stop here.
- You can get more power here without adding more parts if you have E85 available or can raise the octane of the fuel (WMI or similar)

- If you want 350+whp consider the following
- TMIC
- a 3 Bar MAP sensor + PNP harness
- a larger intake than the Nano
- E85 mix. If it's not available a WMI kit for methanol injection

In any case, a custom tune should wrap whatever you install up.

FMIC choices for the MS6 are limited and large cores require the modification of the crash bar. If sticking with the TMIC, make sure all shrouding is in place and as air tight as possible.

[alex_speed13]

Originally Posted by Lex Here is my suggestion for a nice setup, good power, and driveability: - Along with it get the Boost Dial (and keep your OEM 2 port) OR a 3 Port but for driveability and smoothness the Boost Dial wins there.

Sorry to ask, but how come the boost dial wins? i thought the 3 port was a better option and more reliable, more ince the since we are controlling boost from the ECU. sorry if it is a stupid question, just wondering.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by alex_speed13 Sorry to ask, but how come the boost dial wins? i thought the 3 port was a better option and more reliable, more ince the since we are controlling boost from the ECU. sorry if it is a stupid question, just wondering.

With the boost dial you are still controlling boost from the ECU but doing it using the solenoid in 2 port mode.

The reason why it wins in my testing is that you can keep the load dynamics closer to OEM. The less neutering you do of the load control system, the better the car will drive.

You can control boost using either solution and the BNR is very forgiving when it comes to 3 port control. However when trying both, the driveability is better using a 2 port setup versus a 3 port and the boost dial allows you to use the OEM 2 port on non OEM turbos.

[timjustindodd]

Originally Posted by nybe0010 OCC along with that EGR and motor mounts something to think about.

Sorry for the ignorance but what's an OCC?? I've already got the EGR block off (and delete actually haha) yes I know you don't need both but Im going to anyway. And I've for a rear motor mount already.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Sorry for the ignorance but what's an OCC?? I've already got the EGR block off (and delete actually haha) yes I know you don't need both but Im going to anyway. And I've for a rear motor mount already.

Oil Catch Can.

Sent via stocked out for a while ...

[DVM17]

Unless you want a stock looking TMIC and are planning on getting one anyway, just get the ETS or SU. They're known to keep BAT's lower and that'll help even more with the beaner.

[timjustindodd]

Originally Posted by Lex Here is my suggestion for a nice setup, good power, and driveability: - Don't remove the EGR and don't get injectors seals if the current ones are fine. - Get a BNRS3 - Along with it get the Boost Dial (and keep your OEM 2 port) OR a 3 Port but for driveability and smoothness the Boost Dial wins there. - If you want around 320-330whp on pump 93 stop here. - You can get more power here without adding more parts if you have E85 available or can raise the octane of the fuel (WMI or similar) - If you want 350+whp consider the following - TMIC - a 3 Bar MAP sensor + PNP harness - a larger intake than the Nano - E85 mix. If it's not available a WMI kit for methanol injection In any case, a custom tune should wrap whatever you install up.

Call me crazy, even though I have access to 93, I dont want to rely on it. I thunk id like to tune on 91 and still try to get around 330 whp. I'll probably just run a BNR S3 with a SU TMIC, I haven't looked into a 3 bar map sensor, I'll look into that.

Do you think with those mods I could get to my goal on 91? I travel a decent amount and often have to fill up on 91

[fivefingerdeathpunch]

dont quote me on this. im kinda guessing but i dont know if the 91 will provide enough knock protection to get you to 320whp speed6 especially. im currently running straight 91 and im around 300. dont know how much more i can get while staying safe. i couldve sworn someone on the forums has a bnr speed6 making 325awhp but that is 93. one of the tuners will be better suited to answer your question but i feel like that hp goal may be a stretch on 91. maybe your 91 is just better than mine though

edit: im just now remembering that atvfreek got a bnr s3 on a speed3 to 350whp on 93. i still think its a stretch for you but it seems possible. you wont know until you try i guess since every car is different and your 91 may be good 91 but if you have access to e85 even a gallon or two mixed with 91 will give great knock protection.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by fivefingerdeathpunch dont quote me on this. im kinda guessing but i dont know if the 91 will provide enough knock protection to get you to 320whp speed6 especially. im currently running straight 91 and im around 300. dont know how much more i can get while staying safe. i couldve sworn someone on the forums has a bnr speed6 making 325awhp but that is 93. one of the tuners will be better suited to answer your question but i feel like that hp goal may be a stretch on 91. maybe your 91 is just better than mine though

If you are using CF 1.01 on vdyno that is a very lofty goal with 91 octane.

Sent via stocked out for a while ...

[timjustindodd]

Not to give away a million dollar idea but is there an app out yet that lets you search gas stations by octane rating?

[alex_speed13]

As I said, im currently going through the research part and acquiring little pieces for the bnr to come in, im wondering if you have thought of this idea though im just talking from what i got in the HTP and CP-e website, what about acquiring the HTP 3'' housing (75dlls) and use it with the cp-e inlet pipe, according to their website its a 3'' cross sectional flow area... i dont have the thingy to measure the diameter but im hoping i can do so, we could save some money. thoughts?

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by alex_speed13 As I said, im currently going through the research part and acquiring little pieces for the bnr to come in, im wondering if you have thought of this idea though im just talking from what i got in the HTP and CP-e website, what about acquiring the HTP 3'' housing (75dlls) and use it with the cp-e inlet pipe, according to their website its a 3'' cross sectional flow area... i dont have the thingy to measure the diameter but im hoping i can do so, we could save some money. thoughts?

I would just get the HTP 3" Intake the HTP 3" Tip with the BNR coupler and the battery tray kit. Or go with their 4" Intake and battery Tray kit.

[Nefarion]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Not to give away a million dollar idea but is there an app out yet that lets you search gas stations by octane rating?

yes there are quite a few. For iphone i use gasbuddy to find local gas stations and Cleaner and Greener fuels to find e85 stations. just search up gas on the store

[timjustindodd]

Originally Posted by Nefarion yes there are quite a few. For iphone i use gasbuddy to find local gas stations and Cleaner and Greener fuels to find e85 stations. just search up gas on the store

Gas buddy and Octane just sort by up to premium but you can't filter between specific octanes. That's not good if you're tuned on 93 but can't find it on the interstate.

[Nefarion]

Originally Posted by timjustindodd Gas buddy and Octane just sort by up to premium but you can't filter between specific octanes. That's not good if you're tuned on 93 but can't find it on the interstate.

thats true i forgot about there being two octanes. Im not sure if there is any that can filter between 91 and 93

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Fuck the cork sport ram air. It sucks, but not in a good way

CS even released data on the different set up options and the ram air performed the worst. The SRI perfromed best. I would tr to find the article but I am on my phone, naked in bed, next to my women, but thinking about you OP; and I have a boner now.

I had the ram air on when CObb first released the genpu AP. they made a custom map for me but i remember the maf cal was difficult for them to dial in.

I do not have any rattle issues with the piping. It is on securely. I did have to have custom piping made thought to accommodate my 3.5 whale penisfrom HTP... The best intake manufacturer out there.

I am making 370whp on my tune that is not dialed in yet. I have not had any issues with the core size or piping. I have been told by a couple of the most knowledgeable guys on Msf (that don't like this product to begin with), that the core size and piping is currently not an issue on my set up.

In short, DO NOT BUY THE RAM AIR!

Wow, I didn't know finkle got a 3071! And a .82 at that! Man I'm out of the loop

[timjustindodd]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Fuck the cork sport ram air. It sucks, but not in a good way CS even released data on the different set up options and the ram air performed the worst. The SRI perfromed best. I would tr to find the article but I am on my phone, naked in bed, next to my women, but thinking about you OP; and I have a boner now.

hahahaha you just made me LOL

Thanks for all the advice guys! I keep looking into this whole BNR s3 thing and I really think that's a good SAFE way to get more HP and torque with out doing anything too drastic. Coupled with a TMIC, I think I could at least get 300 aWHP on 91 with a decent amount of reliability. Like I said, the actual number of horses doesn't matter so much as it pulls nice and clean, it's very driveable, and I could maybe make a good mid 13 second pass with out launching the piss out of my car