Change my TMIC to a FMIC ???

[Atomic41]

I have a CPE TMIC right now.

So I'm asking if it's a must to go with a FMIC. For now the Ultimate Racing can be my choice. i love the business and the customer service is AWESOME.

I already have a gain when I go from my stock TMIC to the CPE TMIC. I paid 399$ 1 year ago ... but I just want to know if it's a good move to pay 600$ more to get less degree maybe but little turbo lag, a more agressive look ... etc

I just want impression of somebody who have already did this move. Pass from a upgrade TMIC to a FMIC.

[08.5MS3]

Stock turbo=Upgraded TMIC

Depending on the ambient temp, I'll see BAT's approx. 15-20 above. From those I've talked with who are also stock turbo and FMIC, they see relatively the same.

In my opinion, a TMIC is just an easier option with less potential for boost leaks and headaches. Keep the CP-E piece.

[redmnsterut]

If your happy with the CP-e stick with that.. You'll see a little difference like ^^^ said..

But if you go FMIC, send me your TMIC!

[duappleganger]

I've got the Ultimate FMIC, I haven't noticed much change over the stocker. But I got it in preperation for my BT build. Basically if you are going to go BT go FMIC. If not stay TMIC.

[Domino81]

I currently run a CP-E FMIC after running a CP-E TMIC for a few months. I'm SO much happier with my FMIC. Lower BATs accross the board, and anyone that says an upgraded TMIC is all you need with a stock turbo doesn't know what they're talking about. With all due respect to that individual. The cooler the charge, the safer it is in regards to knock. The only benefit I had was fucking INSTANT boost with the TMIC. There is a little bit of lag with the new FMIC setup. But I see consistently better and lower BATs and I made 294whp/335wtq with my tune and the FMIC. Cools down super quick once the throttle blade opens.

[08.5MS3]

Then why did Mazda outfit the Speeds with a TMIC from the factory? I agree, cooler BAT's will help with knock.

It's all goal dependent. The tune can help immensely with regard knock. To say that I don't know what I'm talking about is asinine. That means the countless BT guys who you know (hint:NJ folks), pointed me in the wrong direction.

I'm not here to argue, we all have our own personal goals; with all due respect.

Pretty inefficient if you ask me. 4th gear cruising to work. WOT logs show no knock.

[h.h.sk1nny]

@Atomic41....dude I used to rock the cpe tmic too. I was one of the first guys to get it and it worked great. It was a pain in the ass to work on anything though, because you gotta take the tmic off to get to anything. I ended up selling it and building my own fmic setup. All in all, I'm probably in $350 on my setup and it works great. Much better setup and in all reality, you don't notice any turbo lag or boost drop.

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by 08.5MS3 Then why did Mazda outfit the Speeds with a TMIC from the factory? I agree, cooler BAT's will help with knock. Tell me why a guy on here made 326HP with a TMIC and you only 294HP; if you're so adamant on the FMIC. It's all goal dependent. The tune can help immensely with regard knock. To say that I don't know what I'm talking about is asinine. That means the countless BT guys who you know (hint:NJ folks), pointed me in the wrong direction. I'm not here to argue, we all have our own personal goals; with all due respect.

Why did mazda outfit us with a tmic? Why the fuck did they give us a k04!!!!? LOL, does that make it a better turbo than a gt28, hell no!!! That is irrelevant. I've had both tmic/fmic and fmic is hands down better, even on the stock k04. 326 vs his 294 has a million factors. tune/mods/e85/gen2's make more power

Yes fmic helps fight knock, way better than any tmic would. Simply, you can't get cooler bats with a tmic than fm. OP, do what you want to do, I'm like this with my fmic though

[08.5MS3]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny Why did mazda outfit us with a tmic? Why the fuck did they give us a k04!!!!? LOL, does that make it a better turbo than a gt28, hell no!!! That is irrelevant. I've had both tmic/fmic and fmic is hands down better, even on the stock k04. 326 vs his 294 has a million factors. tune/mods/e85/gen2's make more power Yes fmic helps fight knock, way better than any tmic would. Simply, you can't get cooler bats with a tmic than fm. OP, do what you want to do, I'm like this with my fmic though

I edited the HP numbers out. Too many factors that play in, yes (both were Gen1's on 93). I'm not here to argue, but my WOT logs look good and I'm thoroughly happy with my TMIC.

Opinions are like assholes.

[Domino81]

Probably because it's efficient at stock boost levels and you get instant boost response. And I'd love to see what temp whomever you're referring to was dyno'd in. You start pushing more air through a TMIC which is only going to heat soak based on location and you're heating it more by pushing more air through the k04 which is inneficient much beyond stock boost levels.

[dastpe]

i just got tuned with the CPE tmic and am very happy with the results (dyno #s in sig). i chose tmic because the ease of install and stocking out. i think its a preference when running regular bolt ons. if youre done modding i would stay with the tmic you have. although i may be biased since i picked mine up for $200 off craigslist...

[08.5MS3]

Originally Posted by Domino81 Probably because it's efficient at stock boost levels and you get instant boost response. And I'd love to see what temp whomever you're referring to was dyno'd in. You start pushing more air through a TMIC which is only going to heat soak based on location and you're heating it more by pushing more air through the k04 which is inneficient much beyond stock boost levels.

He posted below you.

[ms6forthewin]

BNR stage 3, running ets tmic there. If your worried about bat, just get water/meth injection

[Domino81]

Naa, I was responding to you. I guess dyno numbers, as long as the intercooler is cool and engine can get fresh air it's really irrelivent what the dyno suggests. All I know is that when I went to the track in April my BATs were 140 from heat soak and 160 by the end of the track.

Heat soak - 1, TMIC - 0. Sorry, TMIC. You lose.

[maddocx240]

well op i will say this, i went from stock tmic to fmic cause i always felt the tmic design was kinda dumb. if they made a scoop for the hood like subaru then it might be different.. but fmic makes the feel much better, and no heatsoak is always great. just but a quality core and stay away from the ebay junk and you will not regret it. and just for the record mazda made the car with a tmic to keep the ms6 looking classy so to speak.. they felt fmic would be to tunerish, which is also why they didnt add a hood scoop.. the gen 1 ms3 just got the same motor and same design cause mazda was too lazy to change anything, and with the gen 2 they smartend up a bit and put hood scoop, dont know how much better it is, but i would think its got to be some improvement. but my vote is fmic ftw!!

[dastpe]

i was dyno tuned in 75-80 degrees...check out the nator pa thread for details.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Domino81 I currently run a CP-E FMIC after running a CP-E TMIC for a few months. I'm SO much happier with my FMIC. Lower BATs accross the board, and anyone that says an upgraded TMIC is all you need with a stock turbo doesn't know what they're talking about. With all due respect to that individual. The cooler the charge, the safer it is in regards to knock. The only benefit I had was fucking INSTANT boost with the TMIC. There is a little bit of lag with the new FMIC setup. But I see consistently better and lower BATs and I made 294whp/335wtq with my tune and the FMIC. Cools down super quick once the throttle blade opens.

Hmm I have been running a CP-E TMIC and then I switched over to a CS TMIC. Although I may agree with the lower bats and possibly lower knock, I believe that a TMIC is more than enough for a stock Turbo. The only reason to go FMIC is that the BT will take up more room and a TMIC will not fit.

I made the similar power with a TMIC and the Stock DP on my own tune and 10/35 more with a Stratified tune on 91 Octane on my Genpu .

After going 100 ft from a stop, my BATS drop down significantly.

[skeeter149]

i went from stock to ets to pg fmic to stock to turboxs fmic. its nice not seeing the 180+ * temps i saw on the ts but if your not sitting idling like i was that hot day no worries. i did get a huge knock that day, audible, pulling out i had to get on it to avoid a idiot swerving. that lead me to front mount and though i cant complain about either or i love the look of fmic. it works great and car is happy.

all bs aside the tmic and heatsink killed me. sitting in traffic on the 5 worried me to no end. so i got fmic for peace of mind. are bats happier sure, am i, sure. but do what you can afford, do it right, do it once. all great options all better then stock.

and as to why did mazda use a tmic? why did mitsu use side mounts? why does the evo have a fmic? why do most wrx/sti i see have a fmic, why does srt have fmic?. probably cheaper to manufacture and less issue for them to deal with. the best question is why is the gen 1 speed 3 so ready for a fmic stock? seriously its like they were gonna do it and said no at the last second. the fact that piping doesnt need you to cut anything out, that you can fit a 3 inch core easily has to have some one say.... was this the original plan?

[08.5MS3]

Obviously the TMIC will heat soak more than a FMIC setup. Start driving and BAT's return to 15 above IAT's after a minute or so. This conversation is just BS! It's all goal dependent.

[m4tic]

"boost-lag" with an FMIC is nitpicking imho. It's not like you're running a huge turbo trying to fill huge 3"/3.5" pipes through a huge core.

Now if your shit was huge.... thats boost lag..

fully built supra stage 3 turbo on gran turismo... thats boost lag


nah do whatever fits your budget and also whatever you are comfortable doing to your car.

[supertubesocks]

Originally Posted by m4tic fully built supra stage 3 turbo on gran turismo... thats boost lag

You sir have just won this argument. Best game for ps ever.

[mituc]

The FMIC may offer just a bit cooler BAT's during cruising and while accelerating, but that is at the price of higher ECT's as you will have 3 radiators there: the FMIC in front of all, the A/C radiator and then the engine coolant radiator.
So I don't know if I'd trade the slightly extended IAT range while BAT's are still below 120 for higher ECT's. Actually I wouldn't, I'll just take it as it is and accept that the ignition timing will be like half a degree retarded compared to the target.

However, above like 23-24PSI any stock or aftermarket TMIC on this car may not be up to the job for sustained hard acceleration (like 5th gear full pulls). Nnot with pump gas at least, but some E85 or some meth/water will help a lot to go around this.

So whatever your current turbo setup is, if you're not boosting higher than like 22PSI you're better off with a TMIC. Less lag and pressure drop in the tubing, almost the same efficiency during cruising and acceleration (I'm not debating the stop&go 1st gear traffic situation when the FMIC provides "cooler" BAT's, like 200F, while with the TMIC you get 250, that's a crappy debate).

[mazdaspeeding]

Hey man, our cars are identical from to the manufacturer of the each mod right down to the black 08.5 on RX-8's. I also went from the stock TMIC to the CPE TMIC and now I have the UR FMIC. Here's what you'll notice:

Your idling and cruising BATS won't drop very much, if at all...or at least not as much as your expecting. This will be deflating.

However, your BATS will drop like a rock as soon as you step on the gas...any gear, any speed. They will drop 20 degrees's in 2 seconds. Much, much faster than waiting to get into 3rd gear and get some serious flow through the CPE TMIC to cool it down. This is the redemption.

There will be boost lag over the TMIC. Instant Hot Boost is gone, slightly delayed colder boost is here. You won't even notice after a short while. This isn't really an issue.

I bought my UR FMIC used and overall I'm happy with my decision. I get colder temps sooner, the car looks meaner and at my WOT BATS are slightly cooler.

Do it.

[Domino81]

Getting a heat soaked TMIC to drop any more than 5-10 degrees on hot days was a pain in the ass... even on the highway after more than a minute of driving.

[Atomic41]

The best one is CPE or COBB or UR ?

[08.5MS3]

Originally Posted by Atomic41 The best one is CPE or COBB or UR ?

Look at the core sizes. Then the ID of the piping.

[Domino81]

2.25 is good for 400whp or so.

[dastpe]

Originally Posted by mazdaspeeding Hey man, our cars are identical from to the manufacturer of the each mod right down to the black 08.5 on RX-8's. I also went from the stock TMIC to the CPE TMIC and now I have the UR FMIC. Here's what you'll notice: Your idling and cruising BATS won't drop very much, if at all...or at least not as much as your expecting. This will be deflating. However, your BATS will drop like a rock as soon as you step on the gas...any gear, any speed. They will drop 20 degrees's in 2 seconds. Much, much faster than waiting to get into 3rd gear and get some serious flow through the CPE TMIC to cool it down. This is the redemption. There will be boost lag over the TMIC. Instant Hot Boost is gone, slightly delayed colder boost is here. You won't even notice after a short while. This isn't really an issue. I bought my UR FMIC used and overall I'm happy with my decision. I get colder temps sooner, the car looks meaner and at my WOT BATS are slightly cooler. Do it.

is your car faster? more power?

[Atomic41]

I got today at idle when it was 31 C outside my BAT was 125F and when I cruise i got 115F sometimes 110F.

Is it good with my CPE TMIC for this warmer weather ?

Can you give me some BAT temp in your region in idle and cruise to see the difference between TMIC and FMIC

[Domino81]

I would always see 40 above ambient but I never saw 20 above under boost.

[Atomic41]

Originally Posted by Domino81 I would always see 40 above ambient but I never saw 20 above under boost.

So my temp with my TMIC are nearly like your temp with your FMIC ???

[dastpe]

can someone educate me...why are you guys so worried about your temps? sitting at the autoX waiting in line to go? because you drag race and between runs it get too hot? or just because after sitting in traffic you need to have cooler BATs in case you want to hammer the car?

[Domino81]

Higher the bats the less power you make due to the ecu pulling timing.

[08.5MS3]

I consistently see 15-20 degrees above IAT when cruising and WOT. Sometimes lower.

[dastpe]

Originally Posted by Domino81 Naa, I was responding to you. I guess dyno numbers, as long as the intercooler is cool and engine can get fresh air it's really irrelivent what the dyno suggests. All I know is that when I went to the track in April my BATs were 140 from heat soak and 160 by the end of the track. Heat soak - 1, TMIC - 0. Sorry, TMIC. You lose.

were you faster at the track with the fmic because of the decreased BATs?

[p057]

Originally Posted by himurax13 The only reason to go FMIC is that the BT will take up more room and a TMIC will not fit. I made the similar power with a TMIC and the Stock DP on my own tune and 10/35 more with a Stratified tune on 91 Octane on my Genpu . After going 100 ft from a stop, my BATS drop down significantly.

Not true, I don't know where you got that information from. I have ETS TMIC (which sits very slightly closer to the block than the OEM TMIC because it's overall bigger) and a 3071 turbo. No space/size issues whatsoever. The only way you'd get to a point where it didnt fit is if you changed out the exhaust manifold.

You must live up in a cold area or something, because if it's a normal day here in tampa (read: 95 degrees with 85% humidity) and i'm heatsoaked to 150, my car will be pissed off as hell until i get down to 135 or so by about 1/4 mile but it will start evening out about 140-145 if cruising... then start going down if maintaining speed. it takes a while to cool off when you get heatsoaked BAD.

and fwiw: upgraded turbo gets rid of heatsoak way faster and just overall runs much, much cooler than the k04. The ETS does a GREAT job on most days. But here in tampa when you've already heatsoaked the balls out of it in stop and go traffic, it's pretty much done for a long while..

[Domino81]

Originally Posted by dastpe were you faster at the track with the fmic because of the decreased BATs?

Haven't gone back since installing the FMIC but it would stand to reason that I would be faster and I guarentee I pick up a few mph in trap, as well.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by p057 Not true, I don't know where you got that information from. I have ETS TMIC (which sits very slightly closer to the block than the OEM TMIC because it's overall bigger) and a 3071 turbo. No space/size issues whatsoever. The only way you'd get to a point where it didnt fit is if you changed out the exhaust manifold.

Thats what I have read on here, but I was also told that if you went big turbo, you had to get a different exhaust manifold.

I totally agree that FMIC is better due to the Heatsoak issue, but since I don't race my car, it is not a big deal. If I am stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, then heatsoak is no issue at all because I will only be travelling 0 to 20 mph.

I live in california where the sun usually shines and the humidity is fairly low. My BATS are usually 20 degrees higher than the intake temp while cruising and 30 to 40 degrees higher when idling. The knocking issues I have has more to do with the POS 91 Octane than the High BAT temperatures.

[mazdaspeeding]

To the OP: I live in Kingston On and its 30C today (36 with Humidex). My Idle BATS in traffic are 120-130F. Pretty much the same as your CPE TMIC. This is what sucks...most people will expect their new FMIC to NOT heatsoak and that your idle BATS will be ice cold. This isn't true because your BAT sensor as I like to call it, isn't inside the IC, its in the Intake Mani. HOWEVER, my 120-130F idle BATS drop to 110 almost instantly and continue to drop to below 100 the more I accelerate. My best is about 15 over ambient.

To the poster who asked about being faster and why so concerned about BATS, Yes, I drag race and getting colder bats by the end of 1st gear vs the end of 3rd gear makes a big difference (more timing, colder air is denser, yada, yada, yada).

Back to the OP: I don't know which is best (Cobb/CPE or UR) but I will say you have to remove the factory Crash bar to install the UR FMIC. This has many disadvantages, ie, no protection in a crash, possible insurance issues...etc. The advantages are less weight, no power steering cooler relocation which equals easier install and the UR core is the biggest and would support a BT if you ever went that route.

I promise you the initial non-drop of idle BATS will be infuriating but the super fast drop of BATS will be awesome and better for your car overall.

My car is faster with UR FMIC. Thats all you need to know. Lol.

[ckMS3]

A fmic is always better than a tmic.. It just depends on what you would rather have/spend.