Cosworth/ Godspeed intake manifolds

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Originally Posted by RhoadBlock hmmm...should bolt right on to the motor for my build.....

If you dont put it on your duratec your a putz lol. Its on the list I have prepared for you. We spoke over the phone about this particular part.

[mason]

the reseach i did lead me to belive the godspeed was a clone of the cosworth. held side by side and looked the same, other than a lil ruff casting on the inside that can be cleaned up.

i hope it works out. @djuosnteisn thanks for pulling the trigger!

[forcedinduktion]

cant wait!

[Jackis]

Subbing, thanks DJ.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by mason the reseach i did lead me to belive the godspeed was a clone of the cosworth. held side by side and looked the same, other than a lil ruff casting on the inside that can be cleaned up. i hope it works out. @djuosnteisn thanks for pulling the trigger!

If it does look promising, i'll take Geoff's advice and pick up the real deal. Having to clean up some casting flash is one thing, but having a manifold crack on you is entirely different.

Plus... screw clones, haha. Last way to garner interest from cosworth is to buy knock off's.

[dooderek]

thats perfect, now you can have the danger to manifold warning!!

[Cataphract_40]

Hooray for finally having a possible aftermarket IM.

No thanks to CP-e

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by chimmike I can't figure out why Cosworth hasn't seen the potential in the MZR yet to start developing stuff for us. I met Eric Hsu years ago just after he first started working for Cosworth. Met him thru an old Nissan buddy of mine who has an online publication and some stuff. You might know who I'm talking about, Geoff, he's over in SoCal. Wish Cosworth would step it up! CAMS PLEASE!

Kojima or Coleman?

[SFWD 1934]

I have a friend that is an Engineer for Cosworth. That is where I got the idea/plan to go ahead and use this manifold for the build I am doing. Cosworth did start to look into parts to either develop, or could be used crossed platform (existing parts they had). My friend was telling me that the car (MZR motor DISI) was just driving them nuts compared to the N/A motor. He stated at one time they were having a hell of a time doing some engine dyno testing. If I recall correctly he was saying that they even had the door or doors from the donor car. They do still have information for parts as well as some CAD drawings for things.

Jason

[spnkr21]

They shoulda called Dustin lol.

[Nataphen]

^QFT

[mason]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn If it does look promising, i'll take Geoff's advice and pick up the real deal. Having to clean up some casting flash is one thing, but having a manifold crack on you is entirely different. Plus... screw clones, haha. Last way to garner interest from cosworth is to buy knock off's.

this is true, id rather rock the cosworth! what i was getting at is the godspeed manny should be perfect, to let us see if the cosworth will work out for our platform. like i stated earlier in the thread, $750 is a decent price for the cosworth manifold

[dooderek]

djesus to the rescue

[Manny]

@pinkcheese has the godspeed he can chime in about it as he has taken some measurements and compared it to the cosworth manifold

@Tabasco69 has a cosworth manifold

...both are FI

here are some links from a long thread with a bunch of useless chatter..last link is another manifold cosworth made, maybe ya'll can stir up some interest and push for that to made, but it's a long shot.

GodSpeed Project Intake Manifold (knock-off Cosworth IM)
GodSpeed Project Intake Manifold (knock-off Cosworth IM)
GodSpeed Project Intake Manifold (knock-off Cosworth IM)
GodSpeed Project Intake Manifold (knock-off Cosworth IM)

[pinkcheese]

The godspeed manifold is nice but the porting is slightly smaller for the TB than the cosi manifold. When myself and another compared the two manifolds godspeed and the cosworth this was the biggest significance. .5mm was all the difference.

I highly suggest that all drilled holes be checked and deburred as well, the trumpets need to be checked and possibly smoothed over casting flash. other than that the manifolds are identical so anyone with some decent dremling skills should be able to have the exact same thing but for a third the cost. or less.

[dooderek]

that thread sucked

[Manny]

no shit, thats why I said a bunch of useless chatter. It was mainly to show what you'd be getting.

[Tabasco69]

Hey I use one, I have a mzr though, they are not compatible with the disi intake ports, mzr has 4 im ports and the disi has 8...right? they are set up for a cable throttle body and need slight modification, you have to block off the iac port and cut a tab off where a throttle cable would be installed so the fly by wire tb can bolt/seat down flush.

They breath really well, but you still end up dealing with other associated bottle necks that won't allow you to take full advantage of the increased flow capacity, namely the small tb and the head, I have yet to find any larger compatible tb, I keep coming here to see if any ms3/6 owners have found one yet/ so that leaves boring the tb out another possible 2mm, not worth it to me, and as far as the head goes we have 2 options, one is a cnc ported head from ford racing but it means the vvt has to deleted because it is not compatible with that head, or spend 3500 for a cosi head.


The ebay copy of the cosi IM is basically a recast, rough and unfinished, and it would need to be cleaned up, porting and polishing and gasket matching where as the cosi one this all is already done for you....and who knows what the quality of metallurgy you are getting with the copy...aluminum is aluminum I guess?!
On boosted conversions this manifold generally gives better to mid to topend performance......people who have tried it on bolted n/a's dynos have shown a drop on their lowend torque/ power and no change and also sometimes a lose of midrange power....which makes it pretty much a pointless upgrade for them.........yet they still install them cause they think it looks cool/go figure!?

The main reason fi/convo's upgrade to it is becuase we are starting with a plastic im, it will only hold so much boost before it fails....if we could find say a compatible 70 mm tb and do a little head work it SHOULD net some good gains.

Oh yeah we have to retain all of the acuators for the stock im or the oe ecm will flip the fuck out...just leave the vacuum line connected and stuff these acuator off to the side....cold starts can be a little rough sometimes until the engine has warmed up.....unless you move to full stand alone ecm.

[dooderek]

thanks to manny for showing me the 2.3 head but heres a comparison between the two

cant quite see how they would fit though

2.3 (on the right)




2.3 disi

[Mizzle]

Honestly, I don't understand why no one makes a straight DISI manifold.
It's been around for what.... five years?
unf.

Good work on this, though. moar pictars.

:edit:
Is this the Matrix!? I post this and pictures appear on my screen... O_O

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn If it does look promising, i'll take Geoff's advice and pick up the real deal. Having to clean up some casting flash is one thing, but having a manifold crack on you is entirely different. Plus... screw clones, haha. Last way to garner interest from cosworth is to buy knock off's.

Lucky that hundred shot of NOS didn't blow the welds on your intake

[RhoadBlock]

Originally Posted by Derigo thanks to manny for showing me the 2.3 head but heres a comparison between the two cant quite see how they would fit though 2.3 (on the right)

That caliper pic shows how much bigger the 2.5L Dtec head ports are over the 2.3L. Just figured I'd throw that out there.

[Tabasco69]

Meh that brings up another question- I wonder if the 2.5 head could be swaped to a 2.3, larger ports should equal more flow...I' am going to start looking into this.

[Alpha]

Geoff just emailed the President of Cossie about our interests/needs regarding their intake... Hopefully he'll be cool and help us out.

This thing would be SICK on a boosted MZR.

[RhoadBlock]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 Meh that brings up another question- I wonder if the 2.5 head could be swaped to a 2.3, larger ports should equal more flow...I' am going to start looking into this.

At least on the Dtec block/heads it seems the only difference is the 2.5 has an extra oil port.
Bryan's True-Street Focus Build Thread - It has begun. - Page 3

Starts there. But the whole thread has some fairly decent info. I'd imagine the MZR stuff to be similar. From what it looks like to me the 2.3 Dtec head would be a direct swap onto the DISI block. I'll try to take some close up comparison pics soon. Tho that would really be for a different thread. I'll post that stuff in my build thread if you care to see them. This thread is for the Cosi Intake Mani. Not DTEC vs MZR vs DISI.

[Tabasco69]

This is all good and well but we need a viable option to upgrading the tb to take full advantage of a better flowing im and head, they work hand in hand.....other then going to a cable setup.....are any larger fly by wire tb's we can use pnp.

[RhoadBlock]

Cable setup is the way to go. I hate this fly by wire bullshit.

[NJSPEED3]

You can 100% swap the disi for the mzr head. They both use the same bottom end. I have already tried at the shop. U can find plenty of info on the 3 forums.

sorry to derail. Carry on

[driver311]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 You can 100% swap the disi for the mzr head. They both use the same bottom end. I have already tried at the shop. U can find plenty of info on the 3 forums. sorry to derail. Carry on

So you can swap the 2.5 head onto a disi 2.3? Am I reading that right?

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 Hey I use one, I have a mzr though, they are not compatible with the disi intake ports, mzr has 4 im ports and the disi has 8...right? they are set up for a cable throttle body and need slight modification, you have to block off the iac port and cut a tab off where a throttle cable would be installed so the fly by wire tb can bolt/seat down flush. They breath really well, but you still end up dealing with other associated bottle necks that won't allow you to take full advantage of the increased flow capacity, namely the small tb and the head, I have yet to find any larger compatible tb, I keep coming here to see if any ms3/6 owners have found one yet/ so that leaves boring the tb out another possible 2mm, not worth it to me, and as far as the head goes we have 2 options, one is a cnc ported head from ford racing but it means the vvt has to deleted because it is not compatible with that head, or spend 3500 for a cosi head. The ebay copy of the cosi IM is basically a recast, rough and unfinished, and it would need to be cleaned up, porting and polishing and gasket matching where as the cosi one this all is already done for you....and who knows what the quality of metallurgy you are getting with the copy...aluminum is aluminum I guess?! On boosted conversions this manifold generally gives better to mid to topend performance......people who have tried it on bolted n/a's dynos have shown a drop on their lowend torque/ power and no change and also sometimes a lose of midrange power....which makes it pretty much a pointless upgrade for them.........yet they still install them cause they think it looks cool/go figure!? The main reason fi/convo's upgrade to it is becuase we are starting with a plastic im, it will only hold so much boost before it fails....if we could find say a compatible 70 mm tb and do a little head work it SHOULD net some good gains. Oh yeah we have to retain all of the acuators for the stock im or the oe ecm will flip the fuck out...just leave the vacuum line connected and stuff these acuator off to the side....cold starts can be a little rough sometimes until the engine has warmed up.....unless you move to full stand alone ecm.

IIRC @kmac has succesfully adapted a larger FBW TB to the DISI.
I think he tried a CX9 but had problems and ended up using a chrysler TB. Don't quote me on the that but my old feeble mind tells me I read that somewhere. Try his engine build thread.

[Tokay444]

Umm, I thought the cams had different diametres.

[Cataphract_40]

Also, the cams for the 2.5 head won't have the extra cam for the CDFP, because the 2.5 is port injection, not direct injection.

[kmac]

I'm still running the cx9 throttle body It's 65 and can be ported to 72. My next setup will either be a ported one or a Chrysler. @Erich is running the Chrysler.

[RhoadBlock]

Originally Posted by Cataphract_40 Also, the cams for the 2.5 head won't have the extra cam for the CDFP, because the 2.5 is port injection, not direct injection.

The whole point of going with the MZR head would be to ditch DI, thus no longer needing the CDFP. No it's not a "bolt on". But it is a direct swap. You'll need to figure out what you're going to do for an intake mani, TB, fueling (fuel rail, pump, fuel lines etc.) It's not a small weekend head swap project. But the head itself is a direct swap.

We need to make a new thread for potential PI head swap projects tho. This thread was supposed to be just about retrofitting a Cosi/Godspeed IM to a DISI head. Unles the OP is cool with it.

[Tokay444]

This mani finished yet? HO-LY!!

[dooderek]

but but but DI is the future!!

[Tabasco69]

yeah but port fuel injection is simple stupid.....just like deadhead fuel systems are the "future" yet they turn out to be a major bottleneck and people resort back to the tried and true old fashioned return fuel system.....because it works.

But yeah di is the future and when it is perfected it will be awesome, it already makes it possible for a disimzr to make a fuckton more torque compared to a regular mzr with the same induction/jealous

I 'am not attempting to make a mzr versus disi situation here, they both have there pros and cons, I 'am here to see what is possible....

Couple of things have to be figured out first though concerning the 2.5 head to make it even worth considering, the gen one disi & mzr head's combustion chamber volume is 42mm, the oil port, can it be deleted without starving anything of lubrication, valve size both exhaust and intake, cam journal size...compatible or not.

I don't happen to have a 2.5 head laying around otherwise I would have these questions answered.

[Tokay444]

Gen 1 disi?
Aren't they all gen 1?

[Tabasco69]

you are correct engine wise, sorry bout that.

[dooderek]

fuck it ls1 time. tried and true whos with me