cp-e Atmosphere vs ATP

[Baloo]

I'm curious if others around here have entertained the cp-e atmosphere kit vs the ATP bolt on kit. The turbo of choice at the moment is likely the gtx3071r.

Obviously the ATP kit comes out of the box relatively cheap because you don't get the manifold, ewg and big TIP. However, I like the fact that the atmosphere kit is a v-band setup which should flow real smooth. There is still a price disparity between the two setups even if I were to get an ATP bolt on and get a manifold/big intake separately.

My question at this point would be if anyone has had much experience with the atmosphere kits and if the sum of the parts comes together better than peacemealing an ATP turbo. I am positive that the vband setup will bolt together easier than the stock 4 bolt & 5 bolt flanges that I hear so much love about.

Thanks all!

[Lex]

One of the biggest differences in terms of performance is that you're going from an internally gated setup to an external one. This means much better control over boost especially if you're catless and have a high flowing intake and intercooler. There are also advantages to having wasetgate and turbine streams separated via the EWG setup. If cost was not an issue, the CPE kit is a better choice.

[Voltwings]

the ATP internal gate is useless. I have a guy with a 4" intake and catless downpipe, and i'm having to completely neutor his car to try to keep the boost tame on an IWG 3071. It creeps up to about 26 psi regardless of what i do in 3rd gear, falls flat on its face shifting into 4th, then swells back to about 28 psi. By the time he goes external he asnt really saved any money over the Atmosphere kit. Just do it right the first time, beacause that manifold flows quite well.

we're about to swap his IWG spring over to a 22 psi unit to see if that gives us a little more control. Its a built motor and has fuel so we're ok with running the boost, its just not doing our traction any favors. On stock fuel system however we were having a real hard time with this car, even on 93 it was seeing about 100% IDC at 6000 rpms in 3rd and about 110 at 5500 in 4th. The car couldnt even race because it would start breaking up so bad.

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by Voltwings the ATP internal gate is useless. I have a guy with a 4" intake and catless downpipe, and i'm having to completely neutor his car to try to keep the boost tame on an IWG 3071. It creeps up to about 26 psi regardless of what i do in 3rd gear, falls flat on its face shifting into 4th, then swells back to about 28 psi. By the time he goes external he asnt really saved any money over the Atmosphere kit. Just do it right the first time, beacause that manifold flows quite well. we're about to swap his IWG spring over to a 22 psi unit to see if that gives us a little more control. Its a built motor and has fuel so we're ok with running the boost, its just not doing our traction any favors. On stock fuel system however we were having a real hard time with this car, even on 93 it was seeing about 100% IDC at 6000 rpms in 3rd and about 110 at 5500 in 4th. The car couldnt even race because it would start breaking up so bad.

Thank you for the great reply!

[rfinkle2]

I started piecing a bunch of parts together @ one point. I had a manifold, a turbo, some odds and ends, but when it came down to it, the atmosphere kit is priced pretty nicely for everything that you get.

The manifold is excellent, the DP is beautiful... As mentioned above the ewg is the better option for the 3071...
@Baloo; get the gtx3076... I'm kicking myself now for my 3071 choice to be honest. Having tuned a few of each and having the 3071 on my car, the 3076 in the real world is the better choice.

Oh, and if you are an old man like me, having the dump routed back into the exhaust keeps the sound down as well.

[Voltwings]

Funny you should mention the 3071 vs 3076. Having had a Gt-3071 i was convinced it was hands down the best turbo for our platform. Good spool, strong top end, it was just a great well balanced turbo. Recently had a chance to tune an EWG gtx3076 and... i'm a believer. No appreciable difference in lag or spool time, and that bitch can move some air! I 100% agree with the above statement.

[Baloo]

My fear is that the atmosphere GTX30 turbos have a 0.82 AR which might make them feel a little lazier around 3000-3500 when compared to the ATP 0.63 AR. It will sure let it breathe better at the top end with the higher AR though.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Baloo My fear is that the atmosphere GTX30 turbos have a 0.82 AR which might make them feel a little lazier around 3000-3500 when compared to the ATP 0.63 AR. It will sure let it breathe better at the top end with the higher AR though.

What type of driving do you do? In reality, I can't think of too many competitive events that you spend very much time in that rpm region.

You can produce potentially rod bending tq by 4k rpm on any of the compressor and hot side configurations, imo.

[PapaSmurf]

precision or bust.

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 What type of driving do you do? In reality, I can't think of too many competitive events that you spend very much time in that rpm region. You can produce potentially rod bending tq by 4k rpm on any of the compressor and hot side configurations, imo.

It's not that I am predominantly in that range when driving hard. I just have to get out of my head that shifts will still happen at 5700 or so because the new turbo will be able to slam into redline no problem so after shifts will be at a higher rpm. I still don't want to have to wait too late for a strong response.

It is reassuring to know that she will be screaming at 4k!

Papasmurf, I was looking at precision as edge has released that new precision setup but it isn't quite ready for the 6 yet and this atmosphere kit looks clean as fuk.

[Voltwings]

my 3576 lagged too much to be fun every day, so i can understand where you're coming from. However, with a well flowing setup and proper tuning you won't notice a big difference with a 30 series turbo. Especially with @snailD;s awesome throttle table, that thing made my 3576 feel decently zippy around town, and my buddy with the 3071 mentioned above said it was actually hard to stay out of boost daily driving it was so responsive.

[Baloo]

Thanks! I appreciate the anecdotal advice quite a bit. Especially reaffirming the 30 series turbo.

I'm curious whether the big turbos with catless exhaust get the turbine noise at all. My dad has a 6.4L ford turbodiesel with a cat/dpf/muffler deleted exhaust and that sucker sounds BAWS when it's idling. It's kinda a boy ricer dream to have that sound but damn would it be nice. I do hear the gtx compressors sound really good.

[smoogs12]

I can also attest to the uselessness of the atp iwg.

When it was starting to get colder (40*) up where im at, I started having serious creep issues. We (freek) had to take my top end wgdc down to like 5%. And that still hardly did shit. It seems to be under control now that it has warmed up though.

This was with a catless exhaust and a 4" intake. Since then I have added a ported manifold. Cant wait to see how much worse that makes it.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by smoogs12 I can also attest to the uselessness of the atp iwg. When it was starting to get colder (40*) up where im at, I started having serious creep issues. We (freek) had to take my top end wgdc down to like 5%. And that still hardly did shit. It seems to be under control now that it has warmed up though. This was with a catless exhaust and a 4" intake. Since then I have added a ported manifold. Cant wait to see how much worse that makes it.

we were having to do the same thing, which was causing the car to fall on its face when shifting because it was essentially "lagging," due to the low WGDC. Did you notice the same issue?

[smoogs12]

Tbh im really not sure.

Could be one of two things...

1. Im oblivious (very possible)
2. Justin had some way to mitigate the feeling @atvfreek; @Justin@Freektune;

I guess I should also add, that I didnt port my wastegate. @Voltwings; did the car you were tuning have a ported wg or no?

[rfinkle2]

My 3071 ewg creeps. LOL. Has to have something to do with the comp wheel.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by smoogs12 Tbh im really not sure. Could be one of two things... 1. Im oblivious (very possible) 2. Justin had some way to mitigate the feeling @atvfreek; @Justin@Freektune; I guess I should also add, that I didnt port my wastegate. @Voltwings; did the car you were tuning have a ported wg or no?

I say its ported, and i feel like we took off a good bit of material, but its possible that in actuality we didn't.