Custom Water to Air Inercooler complete...PICS INSIDE

[soaptray]

Very cool. Nice work.

[Twinturbo6]

Air to Water Heat Exchanger


Would this fit a speed 6?

[Fstrnyou]

Sry to revive an ancient thread, but none of the pics load. I'm looking to do Liquid To Air on my 6 and could use some ideas. Ppl seem to like the OP's setup, but I can't see it. If the pics are lost, then should it still be a sticky?

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Sry to revive an ancient thread, but none of the pics load. I'm looking to do Liquid To Air on my 6 and could use some ideas. Ppl seem to like the OP's setup, but I can't see it. If the pics are lost, then should it still be a sticky?

It's a lot of money for little gain. Run meth injection and never worry about it.

[Fstrnyou]

Probably little gain over a FMIC, but I'm currently running a TMIC. I'll see major gains.
Upgrading the TMIC is a complete waste. Spending all that money to keep the worst part about TMIC's, heat soak.
Why not go FMIC? I'd prefer not to hack anything up to route the pipes and fit the intercooler up...and I'm going for a sleeper look. No, painting the FMIC black is not an option.
One day, I may do WMI, if only for the cleaning benefits with a small nozzle.

I don't want to rely on supplemental fueling/cooling to reach an arbitrary whp target. I don't want to mess around with an Icebox for L2A setup. I don't want to use E85.

I DO want get in and drive with consistently low BATs (relative to ambient of course). Filling up at the pump is like every other day. To the top with 93.

All you guys driving around with at least 1 can of E85 in your trunk along with the meth tank/pump/hoses/etc. That's just silliness. Because RACECAR? Ya, I get that. But that's not what I'm driving. This is my DD and I use my trunk.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Probably little gain over a FMIC, but I'm currently running a TMIC. I'll see major gains. Upgrading the TMIC is a complete waste. Spending all that money to keep the worst part about TMIC's, heat soak. Why not go FMIC? I'd prefer not to hack anything up to route the pipes and fit the intercooler up...and I'm going for a sleeper look. No, painting the FMIC black is not an option. One day, I may do WMI, if only for the cleaning benefits with a small nozzle. I don't want to rely on supplemental fueling/cooling to reach an arbitrary whp target. I don't want to mess around with an Icebox for L2A setup. I don't want to use E85. I DO want get in and drive with consistently low BATs (relative to ambient of course). Filling up at the pump is like every other day. To the top with 93. All you guys driving around with at least 1 can of E85 in your trunk along with the meth tank/pump/hoses/etc. That's just silliness. Because RACECAR? Ya, I get that. But that's not what I'm driving. This is my DD and I use my trunk.

If you don't want/need to use supplemental fueling/cooling or even e85 to reach higher whp goals, why do slightly lower BATs matter at all to you?

Even the OEM top mount dissipates heat soak relatively quickly when getting up to speed. The under hood ducting was designed fairly well with this in mind.

It sounds like you are trying to keep things as simple as possible and not looking for any real hp gains since you daily drive the car. I can respect that. If that is your desire, don't do any of this. FMIC adds couplers and piping that could cause issues down the road. So will a custom water to air setup. Pretty much anything that would reduce BATs is introducing another possible point of failure, which seems like it is not ideal for you. The stock intercooler will serve what appear to be your goals just fine.

[Fstrnyou]

On an 80 degree day, my BATs are registering 130's cruising on the interstate. I understand part of that is simply due to the sensor itself heatsoaking on the intake manifold because the airflow is too low at part throttle to keep the sensor cooled off. At the start of a log, temps will drop pretty quick to about 115-120 for a second or two and by the end of a 4th gear pull, my BATs are above 140. That's rediculously hot to be intercooled.

There have been a few times where I ran half way thru 6th gear. I can't imagine what my BATs were during that. Those were pre-Versatune days. Knowing what I know now, I won't be doing that again until cooling is under control.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou On an 80 degree day, my BATs are registering 130's cruising on the interstate. I understand part of that is simply due to the sensor itself heatsoaking on the intake manifold because the airflow is too low at part throttle to keep the sensor cooled off. At the start of a log, temps will drop pretty quick to about 115-120 for a second or two and by the end of a 4th gear pull, my BATs are above 140. That's rediculously hot to be intercooled. There have been a few times where I ran half way thru 6th gear. I can't imagine what my BATs were during that. Those were pre-Versatune days. Knowing what I know now, I won't be doing that again until cooling is under control.

How much boost are you pushing through the k04?

[Fstrnyou]

Stock. I haven't touched boost or load tables. It peaks at 16 for a split second then starts tapering to 14 or so by 6000.

[xfeejayx]

So you aren't pushing extra air, and don't have extra timing. Really not understanding why you need lower BATs at all.

Not trying to stop you from making any stupid decision you want to make, just trying to make sure you understand that you might be making a stupid decision here.

[g00s3y]

Lots of people just have an upgraded TMIC and BAT's are fine. You're in NC so it can't get that bad. A used bigger TMIC and meth kit (that can be neatly placed in the drivers side front bumper, so you can still use your trunk) would be cheaper than trying to make a whole custom L2A IC.

You're still completely stock, should worry more about getting HPFP internals before going with a custom IC setup. Especially since there is no real need for one at your power levels.

[Fstrnyou]

Currently, I am stock. But I have mild to moderate upgrades planned, so I'm trying to plan out a foundation to build that on. HPFP being an obvious one. I'm not increasing load tables until the internals are in. I'll hold on to the K04 as long as possible but eventually I will be running a BNR S3 or Corksport upgrade if I'm not happy with the K04 results.

Upgraded TMIC is a no go. Sitting in traffic, heatsoaking BAT sensor readings are 160. Again, I know the actual air temps are lower. A thermal gasket will help a little with that.

With all that said, we've gotten way off topic. I'll have to create a build thread. I just want to see pics of the praised set up from the OP.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Currently, I am stock. But I have mild to moderate upgrades planned, so I'm trying to plan out a foundation to build that on. HPFP being an obvious one. I'm not increasing load tables until the internals are in. I'll hold on to the K04 as long as possible but eventually I will be running a BNR S3 or Corksport upgrade if I'm not happy with the K04 results. Upgraded TMIC is a no go. Sitting in traffic, heatsoaking BAT sensor readings are 160. Again, I know the actual air temps are lower. A thermal gasket will help a little with that. With all that said, we've gotten way off topic. I'll have to create a build thread. I just want to see pics of the praised set up from the OP.

A larger than OEM top mount will dissipate the heat soak quicker. A front mount will still heat soak, though not quite as much. I don't have any data or experience first hand with L2A, but I imagine even that would heat soak to an extent if not similarly to the other options. All cooling systems are designed with airflow in mind, none of them work as well while sitting still in traffic.

You'll never completely do away with heat soak. Meth injection is the best solution to lowering BATs, but even that does not stop heat soak.

I'm simply trying to say, you are doing a lot to reach for a goal that doesn't seem necessary for your setup. Carry on.

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 A larger than OEM top mount will dissipate the heat soak quicker. A front mount will still heat soak, though not quite as much. I don't have any data or experience first hand with L2A, but I imagine even that would heat soak to an extent if not similarly to the other options. All cooling systems are designed with airflow in mind, none of them work as well while sitting still in traffic. You'll never completely do away with heat soak. Meth injection is the best solution to lowering BATs, but even that does not stop heat soak. I'm simply trying to say, you are doing a lot to reach for a goal that doesn't seem necessary for your setup. Carry on.

maybe he'll run a custom fan to air it?

[Fstrnyou]

Yes, the heat exchanger will have a generic electric pusher fan. Probably 10-12".

[xfeejayx]

So mounting an extra heat exchanger and fan, but don't want FMIC?? Dafuq?

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[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx So mounting an extra heat exchanger and fan, but don't want FMIC?? Dafuq? Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

I'm lost too. But he is Faster than you, and me, so maybe we should take notes?

[Fstrnyou]

I'm sure there is plenty of room to mount a thin-ish (1" to 1-1/2") heat exchanger in front of the AC condenser coil. No removal or hacking of crash bar needed. Full disclosure, I haven't actually verified this.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou I'm sure there is plenty of room to mount a thin-ish (1" to 1-1/2") heat exchanger in front of the AC condenser coil. No removal or hacking of crash bar needed. Full disclosure, I haven't actually verified this.

There is. It also happens to be a fantastic place to mount an FMIC.

[Fstrnyou]

Since we're talking craziness, why stop there? Run the FMIC cold side to an iceboxed W2A. Done and done.

[Voltwings]

Your logic is correct, but your data is flawed.

The ducting on the Gen 1 / speed 6 really is sub par compared to the scoop of the Gen 2 when discussing flow through a TMIC.

However, the biggest issue regarding your high BATs at cruise in an otherwise stock application ( i am making this statement assuming you have ALL stock ducting in place) is that your sensor is located in an aluminum intake manifold that is bolted to the cylinder head in a hot engine bay...

The problem with chasing BATs is the sensor itself heat soaks and you find yourself on a wild goose chase. Dont believe me? The next time you're cruising and see high BATs, drop a gear and give it a little boost, just like 5 psi or so, and you'll see those temps tank because fresh air is passing over the sensor. As soon as you get out of boost the temps will go right back up due to the lack of air cooling the sensor.

If you really want to keep things sleeper and simple, start with some thermal intake gaskets on the intake manifold and throttle body, and do the coolant reroute to remove the coolant from the throttle body.

I'll admit i skimmed your posts a bit so if you have already done these things, then fail on my part.

[Fstrnyou]

I am more or less completely stock, ducting and all.
I did mention the sensor itself gets heat soaked and also noted that temps drop for the first few seconds of a log. I also mentioned that a TIG would somewhat reduce a bit of heat soak in the intake.
Even with all that, I said the BATs at the end of a 4th gear log were over 140 (80 ambient).
Note that if you do the coolant bypass, the TIG at the throttle body is useless. Doing both is redundant.

And with all that, I made a build thread if anyone cares to continue this discussion. Back to my original revival post, where are the pics of the OP's water to air setup?

[Voltwings]

Care to post the log? 140 on a stock setup at the end of a single 4th gear pull? Something doesnt sound right.

[Fstrnyou]

I'll post it in my new build thread. I would link it here if I knew how.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Care to post the log? 140 on a stock setup at the end of a single 4th gear pull? Something doesnt sound right.

Perfectly normal. #mS6lyfe

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[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Perfectly normal. #mS6lyfe Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Damn, i've tuned a ton of 3s but no 6s so i've never seen numbers like that. That's rough haha

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Damn, i've tuned a ton of 3s but no 6s so i've never seen numbers like that. That's rough haha

See a 50* jump in one pull sometimes. Hence, E85/meth/fmic suggestions.



...I know E doesn't change BATs, it just lets me ignore them.

Back to him asking for pics.

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[nindoja]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Perfectly normal. #mS6lyfe Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Voltwings Damn, i've tuned a ton of 3s but no 6s so i've never seen numbers like that. That's rough haha

Yup. @xfeejayx; and I were comparing BATs at the drag strip the other day. I was seeing slightly worse (55-60 degrees maybe) rise than him when comparing staging lane temps to finished run temps.