Dale' BNRS3v2 install thread & self tuning experience

[dale_gribble]

There's a running BNR S3v2 bonanza thread and I will add pertinent things to that as I get into the tune and such. I just didn't want to spam the existing threads with a bunch of install pics, personal insights and hacks. I am not going to bore you with turbo swap steps; there are threads for that.

Here's the patient ready for it's turbo augmentation surgery. We are going for DD's and a tummy tuck.



Intake and TMIC area cleanly shaven for surgery.



Next I made an incision on the red line just below the nipple and pulled the skin back. Then I pulled up on the flesh marked by the blue line and move that up. Then I removed the ugly flabby mass circled in yellow.





The outcome 2 hrs later. The flabby mass has been removed.



Honestly, I could have done the full swap in 1 night, 7 hrs or so, but I got greedy on the turbo studs. I figured since I recently replaced them and used a ton of anti-seize that I could easily reclaim the studs with the double nut method. No such luck. I saved 2 and already had 3 new ones. I need 4 more tomorrow. I should have just had all new studs standing by.

Here's a couple side by side pics of the turbos









This was my EBCS hack. I wanted the EBCS as close to the turbo as possible, like in the stock location. There's a reason it's there; the vacuum line runs can remain very short. It will also keep my stealth theme going.

Start with a 2" u-bolt from McMaster and thread it on just below the bump in the neck.



That u-bolt is damn near the footprint of the Grimmspeed 3-port EBCS! It goes right on with a couple of nuts. Now I basically have the Grimmspeed in the stock EBCS location. Not bad for $1.99 u-bolt setup.





Finally, I have to say it, I bought the SURE FULL 3 AEROS long before the whole fiasco, but the thing fits perfectly over the BNR inlet. Slips right on like it was made for it.





I should have the new turbo in tomorrow evening after a trip to the parts counter and begin tuning this weekend. I should be pretty well dialed before the dyno day next weekend.

[Quigs]

Pics aren't working for me

[dale_gribble]

Hmm, I'll upload them to another site in a couple hours.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

It's a great turbo so far!
@Rob@Freektune; and I experienced boost creep up to ~18.25 psi with a 0 WGDC. I would be prepared for that.

[Lex]

Make sure to use steel clamps for the ebcs lines and not zip ties in that location due to heat.

[dale_gribble]

Ahhh good point. The pic you see with the plastic zip ties was after I pulled my 3 port off of its temporary home on the firewall. I'll get some clamps also.

[ItsNox]

I loled at the surgical walkthrough and that "fatty mess." And that EBCS hack is pure fucking win IMO. I'll be stealing that idea when it comes time thanks DG

[Mazdazilla6]

Very cleanly done! Wish my engine bay was that nice and not covered in god knows what.

[almcbs]

nice and clean, wish my engine bay looked that good

[Boostin'likeAboss]

so that's what an engine bay that isn't exposed to winter looks like....

pretty neat

[dale_gribble]

California isn't all bad. Mostly. .. Not all.

[ItsNox]

Got me searching for the best way to clean my engine bay

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[Agent_Orange]

You probably could perform an actual surgery in his clean ass bay.

#cleanest6ever

Good shit Mr. Gribble. I'm jelly!

[rolanblack]

Nice setup gribble. I see OCD runs strong with you due to your engine bay.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by rolanblack Nice setup gribble. I see OCD runs strong with you due to your engine bay.

Me? Naaa. Just don't ask me about my wheel obsession. I definitely like to mod clean and take my time.

[dale_gribble]

Plus, the way I look at it is, you only get to build your car up once, right? Might as well drag it out and have fun with each mod along the way. It seems a lot of guys go hardcore with turbo, bolt-ons, tune, etc. and then bail within a short while. At this point it has taken me 2.5 years to get my car like this. I kind of do feel like I am getting closer to the end of the road though in terms of mods.

[ItsNox]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Plus, the way I look at it is, you only get to build your car up once, right? Might as well drag it out and have fun with each mod along the way. It seems a lot of guys go hardcore with turbo, bolt-ons, tune, etc. and then bail within a short while. At this point it has taken me 2.5 years to get my car like this. I kind of do feel like I am getting closer to the end of the road though in terms of mods.

Nah man you're just getting ready for the last and best mod. The "built motor" mod .

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[dale_gribble]

So as far as tuning goes, I am going to dial timing back to stock values, zero out WG and Load Error Comp Coarse/Fine and take it from there. I am going to go ahead and tune with methanol injection out of the gate. Later I'll do a non-meth tune when I have more time.

We'll see how she does on spring pressure, and once I get a feel for the curve I'll start walking up the boost nice and steady until I am in the low 20s at redline nice and even from ~3,500; it's going to be weird to see 2.0 loads at redline. Then I'll add some light WG load dynamics for coarse/fine and start slowly adding timing. I definitely found I could tune the WG/boost more consistently with dialing the load dynamics up to meet target boost vs trying to dial it down to meet target boost and contain spikes.

I'm going to leave AFRs right where they were around; tapering from ~11.5:1 to 11:1 at the higher RPMs. My car has always liked richer AFRs and I have never seen a single gain from leaning out any more than 11:1 on my car; I usually start to see kr with nothing to show for it.

[nindoja]

@JgamB; check out this sweet EBCS mounting location. Next BNR swap gets this done.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by nindoja @JgamB; check out this sweet EBCS mounting location. Next BNR swap gets this done.

Not after Arthur told me how that solenoid would (not) hold up to the heat. We'll see how Dale fares with it there, it looks slick.

[dale_gribble]

The stock plastic PLASTIC body ebcs with plastic fittings is there on the stock turbo that runs hot as shit. I would say the odds are in my favor.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble The stock plastic PLASTIC body ebcs with plastic fittings is there on the stock turbo that runs hot as shit. I would say the odds are in my favor.

Well....I actually looked at this quite a bit when I was making these things (and will be doing more in the future for people that need them).

The recommended temperature range is 0-120°F. This is the only reason I'd mount it in a location closer to the battery box.

Edit: For reference: http://www.technologie.com.pl/mac_valves/pdf/35.pdf

[Easter Bunny]

Fwiw im pretty sure the reason most guys are running leaner is to gain a little injector headroom not necessarily for more power.

[dale_gribble]

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Glad to see this finally happening for you Russ! You're gonna love it!

[bshotts422]

Glad to hear everything is going smooth after all the mess. Just got mine on this past weekend and started my tune. Still on first wot map. Really anxious to see what this turbo can do. @JgamB; his shit is just jaw dropping. Thinking about getting some diapers just incase.

[dale_gribble]

Well my nemesis the oil drain tube set me back. I guess the bnr felt gasket slipped as I put the drain tube on even though I also used gasket adhesive. Fuuuuuuuuuuuu...

Started up fora few mins no leaks, went for a quick run around the block and came back to an oily mess with a quart ending up on my driveway and a nice coating under the car.

I pulled the tube and replaced with a brand new OEM gasket. Just need to finish putting the car together. The oil drain is the hardest part for MS6 imo. Everything else was easy.



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[dale_gribble]

If 120F max is the case, the valve shouldn't go in the engine compartment at all. The standard industry rule of thumb is that underhood average temps are 100F+ambient (outside) temp (i.e. 100F + 50F outside = 150, 100F + 90F outside = 190). Granted the temps are probably a little higher near the turbo than the battery box. Obviously we don't understand underhood airflow and how even the airflow is and if there are any hotspots.

If these valves failed at 120F constantly, we would know about it because they wouldn't work in cars. I may be pushing it; I'll be the first to admit it doesn't work if it doesn't. I couldn't find a single case of MAC EBCS failure anywhere in Internetland attributed to heat.

I just can't picture the stocker being more robust than the MAC in that spot...

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble I just can't picture the stocker being more robust than the MAC in that spot...

Only reason I made mention of it is the tuner/fabricator I work with locally (not for my tune) stated it may fail prematurely due to the extreme temperatures, much like an overclocked CPU. I like the idea a lot, and it looks very nice - but I'd rather have 6" of extra vacuum hose and keep it completely accessible next to the fuel pump bracket.

There's a hole in it that shares thread pitch with the provided Cobb bolt, so it's a clean install as well.

Minor stuff, on with the rest of Dale Gribble's outstanding documentation and data gathering!

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble If 120F max is the case, the valve shouldn't go in the engine compartment at all. The standard industry rule of thumb is that underhood average temps are 100F+ambient (outside) temp (i.e. 100F + 50F outside = 150, 100F + 90F outside = 190). Granted the temps are probably a little higher near the turbo than the battery box. Obviously we don't understand underhood airflow and how even the airflow is and if there are any hotspots. If these valves failed at 120F constantly, we would know about it because they wouldn't work in cars. I may be pushing it; I'll be the first to admit it doesn't work if it doesn't. I couldn't find a single case of MAC EBCS failure anywhere in Internetland attributed to heat. I just can't picture the stocker being more robust than the MAC in that spot...

Yeh I mean. Those are just recommendations. The actual range of the device can be way outside of that I'm sure.

I was simply making the point that I would much rather reduce the risk of failure; I haven't really heard of a failure yet, so maybe it doesn't matter at all.

Originally Posted by JgamB Also Dale - I see you haven't done a coolant bypass yet (2nd pic). I bought 3/8" coupler at OReillys for $2.50 and my BATs dropped 20*. Whether or not that is because of the sensor location or it's a legit drop, I think it's worth looking into. The 3/8" coupler will *not* allow the OEM clamps to fit over the hose, but it's also 3 rows of hose barbs deep and sure as shit not coming off without ludicrous force. Go with the 1/4" coupler if you would rather rely on clips instead of man handing the hoses in place. I kept mine easily reversible just in case of spontaneous ice age temperatures in Alabama, but I sincerely doubt you need the ~200F coolant in your TB.

I'm also going to have to do the coolant bypass. I've had that sitting in my garage forever.

[Agent_Orange]

I have read about valves failing due to excessive heat exposure in the past, but they were mounted in close proximity to an exhaust manifold or downpipe. Whether they were MAC valves or not I cannot recall.

Personally, I doubt you'd have an issue. Perhaps a couple layers of Reflect-A-GOLD would be a good idea? Even just for peace of mind.

[JgamB]

Also Dale - I see you haven't done a coolant bypass yet (2nd pic). I bought 3/8" coupler at OReillys for $2.50 and my BATs dropped 20*. Whether or not that is because of the sensor location or it's a legit drop, I think it's worth looking into.

The 3/8" coupler will *not* allow the OEM clamps to fit over the hose, but it's also 3 rows of hose barbs deep and sure as shit not coming off without ludicrous force. Go with the 1/4" coupler if you would rather rely on clips instead of man handing the hoses in place.

I kept mine easily reversible just in case of spontaneous ice age temperatures in Alabama, but I sincerely doubt you need the ~200F coolant in your TB.

[dale_gribble]

Thanks @JgamB; I did that bypass a long time ago when I did my derale fan controller mod. I think you're right- it's probably a safe bet.

[rolanblack]

Or for a cleaner look... do this with the hose than the barb
Throttle Body By-Pass

[dale_gribble]

Ok, here's my first pass with 0WGDC across the board to 6500. It looks like my WG is working correctly so far. Fuel trims are pretty much as they were, no surprises. There were no surprises at all actually. For the next pass, I am bumping the WGDC up to 15% across the board and I'll start building the curve over a few iterations. I am still leaving all WG corrections at 0 for the time being. I set the AFRs to a flat 11.0 from 4500+ for the next pass also. Ignition advance is around stock; it hits around 12.5 degrees at 6500.

[dale_gribble]

Ok, here's pass 2 on rev 2. I was happy to see the boost increment up slightly; the WG is responding to the EBCS control which is a good sign.

I'm going to hold everything else the same from the previous tune for rev 3 except I am going to continue slowly building up the boost curve.

[nindoja]

Did you drop timing past 6k in the second revision? You gained a good bit under the curve except for above 6k RPM

[dale_gribble]

Didn't touch it. Probably started letting off gas a millisecond sooner. I think I let it bounce off of rev limiter on first pass.

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[dale_gribble]

Rev 3. Things are starting to look up. Still only touching WGDC at this point. Next step is 20+ at redline which is uncharted territory for me.

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Rev 3. Things are starting to look up. Still only touching WGDC at this point. Next step is 20+ at redline which is uncharted territory for me.

looking better, any chance you post up a logs of the last VD's, just for comparison. Are you still making general increases to WGDC? i.e. ~15-20% across the rpm or have you started incrementally increasing in each range to sustain @ 18psi