EWG not hitting boost targets

[Cheapspeed]

I've noticed that sometimes when I try to transition from an part throttle dump (say at 16psi, 15psi is spring pressure) to WOT the car will stay at 16psi all the way to redline when it should've been at 20psi until I let off and hit it again.

Anyone else have this problem? Is this just inherent with EWG's? Or is something a miss?

[Cheapspeed]

I'm bumping this.

I've changed my driving habits so that if I'm in part boost, and want to go WOT I'll quick let off and floor it to ensure I'll hit peak boost. Could anybody else tag someone with an EWG to chime in?

Also feels like building boost then letting off quickly lends to some bucking and sounds like faint turbo flutter. I read in some posts that low boost flutter isn't a big deal and most efforts to eliminate it (cleaning/lubing) didn't do much. Just want to know if there's anything I can do to stop it or at least smooth out the bucking.

I have a gtx3076r with the EWG hotside with a tial 38mm wastegate, stratified 3 port, and go fast bits bypass valve in full recirc.

Maybe @Lex; @Justin@Freektune; ?
@Code Monkey; @Enki; @Dano; @Tomas; @Voltwings;

[Code Monkey]

No experience with EWG, but is it recent or has it always been like that? I think there are like 2 or 3 different ways to setup the EWG, maybe try a different configuration?

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey No experience with EWG, but is it recent or has it always been like that? I think there are like 2 or 3 different ways to setup the EWG, maybe try a different configuration?

It's always been like that since it was installed. Initially I didn't notice it because I was simply going WOT everywhere when it was installed, but building slowly on the on-ramp trying to transition to full boost that never came has put me in a precarious spot once or twice.

[Code Monkey]

I hope it is a glitch of some sort, as I have plans for an EWG....

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey I hope it is a glitch of some sort, as I have plans for an EWG....

I'm pretty sure I hooked it up like this:

I'd have to go back under and look.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed I'm pretty sure I hooked it up like this: I'd have to go back under and look.

This doesn't quite look right to me...

If you hook it up like this, it's going to dump pressure from the top of the WG first, which is going to reduce boost pressure... If you're at a low WGDC, it may not be enough to bleed from the bottom AND the boost source as well.

If you really want to use both ports on the wastegate, I'd suggest a 4 port EBCS.

[Code Monkey]

I have this routing in my fail thread, but also this routing as well....

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey I have this routing in my fail thread, but also this routing as well....

I read on a subbie forum that for the fastest response to use the T fitting. But I have seen your VTA version as well. Need to do more research I guess.

[Enki]

Confirm EBCS config (preferably), provide log of working and non working and map (preferably).

[Cheapspeed]

Actually I know I'm using the top port of the EWG because I have a T fitting. No other setup uses the T.

I'll grab logs tomorrow morning.

[Mazdazilla6]

Who is your tuner?

Edit: Nevermind, just read your sig. I was going to point to something similar I experienced but it was in the tune.

[Mazdazilla6]

IIRC mine is hooked up left side to comp housing, middle to intake and right side to bottom port.

Edit: Actually center is comp housing, left is bottom port on ewg and right is to my intake.

[Enki]

To clarify:
If middle is normally closed, you should have a hard time exceeding spring pressure unless your exhaust setup flows like crazy (low pressure against the wastegate valve) and your EBCS flows like crazy too.

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 IIRC mine is hooked up left side to comp housing, middle to intake and right side to bottom port.

Nothing on top port, right?

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Enki Nothing on top port, right?

Nada

OP what spring do you have in the wastegate?

This is from Lex in my build thread:

Originally Posted by Lex For the boost control solenoid setup remember the following. When the solenoid is not energized ports 2 and 3 connected. Port 1 holds whatever pressure has been built up behind it. When the solenoid IS energized ports 2 and 1 are connected. Port 3 holds whatever pressure has been built up behind it. So in the diagram above with a dual port wastegate, when you increased WGDC you will start adding pressure to the top of the diaphragm to keep it closed. The port 1 and 3 when not connected to port 2 are sealed. This means that you will keep building pressure on both sides of the diaphragm. This allows you to run a very small pressure differential across the diaphragm and therefore a very light spring. If you go with a heavy spring you might have an issue with controlling boost.

This picture in reference was this (looking at the front of the solenoid left to right the ports are 2 3 1):

[Justin@Freektune]

Where is your boost source coming from for the ewg.

Is it coming from a quick tap in the intercooler hot pipe? Or are you tapped off your bov hose?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune Where is your boost source coming from for the ewg. Is it coming from a quick tap in the intercooler hot pipe? Or are you tapped off your bov hose? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's on the quick tap coming off the hot pipe.

As it is, my

P1 goes to my Hotpipe, T, and bottom port on the EWG.
P2 goes to top port, but the side top port because when I post the pictures you'll see the top port is blocked.
P3 goes to my intake.

I'll post logs a little later this evening. Spring pressure is set to 15psi.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed It's on the quick tap coming off the hot pipe. As it is, my P1 goes to my Hotpipe, T, and bottom port on the EWG. P2 goes to top port, but the side top port because when I post the pictures you'll see the top port is blocked. P3 goes to my intake. I'll post logs a little later this evening. Spring pressure is set to 15psi.

According to the picture you posted you have port 1 and 2 switched. Unless my dyslexia is making me read it wrong.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 According to the picture you posted you have port 1 and 2 switched. Unless my dyslexia is making me read it wrong.

You think I should switch them?

Would there be any danger if that's not correct?

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed You think I should switch them? Would there be any danger if that's not correct?

Well the way you have it set up right now, when the solenoid isn't energized you're pulling a vacuum on top of the diaphragm. This is bad because it will reduce the pressure that the spring is pushing down on the valve with. Then when the solenoid is energized, you're putting boost on both sides of the diaphragm, essentially making it run on spring pressure.

I would recommend to set it up according to the picture that you posted or the routing that I have.

[Boost_creep]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed It's on the quick tap coming off the hot pipe. As it is, my P1 goes to my Hotpipe, T, and bottom port on the EWG. P2 goes to top port, but the side top port because when I post the pictures you'll see the top port is blocked. P3 goes to my intake. I'll post logs a little later this evening. Spring pressure is set to 15psi.

According to the attached Stratified directions, your routing is incorrect. But as Mazdazilla mentioned, I would consult with your tuner.

Interesting you blew your dipstick with one high boost pull. Are you running any sort of crankcase mods, like vented cap, vented can, perm plate, etc?

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Boost_creep According to the attached Stratified directions, your routing is incorrect. But as Mazdazilla mentioned, I would consult with your tuner. Interesting you blew your dipstick with one high boost pull. Are you running any sort of crankcase mods, like vented cap, vented can, perm plate, etc?

No crankcase mods, I only ever see 21psi at the most and it's never been an issue.

By the way, did some logs, and my car is really down on power by about 30whp. I'm barely breaking 300whp. Car is running really rich too. I'm gonna e-mail Freak cause something isn't right (amongst other things). My AFR's at WOT are in going as low as 10.14.

[Cheapspeed]

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[Code Monkey]

It's a Mazdaspeed, what could possibly go wrong.

[Cheapspeed]

Okay, so that was bad. Swapped P1 and P2. Warmed the car up, slowly went into boost on the on ramp. Let off, then built boost again, decided to floor it. Car hit 30.22psi of boost and 140%IDC.

Babied it home and swapped lines back to original positions. I took several logs trying to replicate the condition (which I believe I did) but I have to sort through all the logs to find them.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Okay, so that was bad. Swapped P1 and P2. Warmed the car up, slowly went into boost on the on ramp. Let off, then built boost again, decided to floor it. Car hit 30.22psi of boost and 140%IDC. Babied it home and swapped lines back to original positions. I took several logs trying to replicate the condition (which I believe I did) but I have to sort through all the logs to find them.

Do you know what kind of wgdc you are commanding? Were you tuned with the lines setup like this?

If you set it up according to the photo you posted earlier then I'm guessing your tune is commanding some high duty cycle and with the setup in the picture you need to command a lower duty cycle.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Do you know what kind of wgdc you are commanding? Were you tuned with the lines setup like this? If you set it up according to the photo you posted earlier then I'm guessing your tune is commanding some high duty cycle and with the setup in the picture you need to command a lower duty cycle.

@Justin@Freektune; would know better than I.

Here are the logs. I posted the overboost after I straight swapped P1 and P2. Then there is the roll into boost that falls short of full boost (I gradually depress the pedal staying in high load), and then there's full boost where I floor it, usually hitting 18-19+psi in this cold weather. Hot weather will bring me up to 20-21psi.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed @Justin@Freektune; would know better than I. Here are the logs. I posted the overboost after I straight swapped P1 and P2. Then there is the roll into boost that falls short of full boost (I gradually depress the pedal staying in high load), and then there's full boost where I floor it, usually hitting 18-19+psi in this cold weather. Hot weather will bring me up to 20-21psi.

Okay you're not running very high wgdc according to the full boost log. Something seems very wrong though. On the overboost log you're not really overboosting until there's any wgdc. On the full boost log you have what I would consider a normal wgdc ramp. And then on the underboost/roll into it log you have 0 wgdc all the way down, so it's just on spring pressure.

Possibly something faulty with the boost controller?


Edit: To be clear, I feel guilty for the overboost situation. Swapping lines around like that is definitely something you should consult with your tuner about. Routing lines wrong or in a fashion that doesn't work with the tune can blow an engine.

[Cheapspeed]

So apparently 30+psi will blow out my dipstick. Didn't notice it last night in the dark. Oil everywhere. Glad the pressure didn't blow my block. Gonna take some logs at my normal logging spot to see if there's any noticeable change in performance.

[England15j]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed So apparently 30+psi will blow out my dipstick. Didn't notice it last night in the dark. Oil everywhere. Glad the pressure didn't blow my block. Gonna take some logs at my normal logging spot to see if there's any noticeable change in performance.

Same thing happened to me at 30psi. Switched to a vented oil fill cap and VTA OCC and never happened again.

On the ewg I have mine routed like this and it's perfect.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1453508231.175750.jpg

[Enki]

Lol.

[Enki]

Crancase evac will cause you to lose that much power, or more.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Enki Crancase evac will cause you to lose that much power, or more.

I bought a touch-up from Justin and will just baby the car in the meantime. Not hard staying out of boost on the 3076. I need to get a beater so I can let the car sit for a while. I've beat the shit out of this thing and it still reliably gets me to work. It's pretty amazing.

[Cheapspeed]

Blew the dipstick out again doing the logs I sent to Freek. Hose at the TB was pushed back. Fixed that, and checked my plugs (they looked pretty good).

Did 2 logs again, still running 10 AFR's at WOT but no dipstick blowout.

I looked at my old logs on this revision if anything I was running leaner then. He gave me a blind fix to my IDC issue where I was hit 107% IDC if not higher and the car stuttered (as in he didn't view any logs for it).

Here' one of those old logs, and here the ones I just took, same map.

[Cheapspeed]

Here's logs from this afternoon that I sent to Justin. Still rich AFRs, but power isn't abnormal for 65*ambients and up to 117*bats after 3 back to back pulls.

[Cheapspeed]

Quick update. Rerouted all my lines as @Mazdazilla6; and Justin said to. Also remade another gasket for the bpv, double checked all fitting and boost tubes. Haven't done a boost leak check yet because I'll have to borrow compressor and gauge from somebody.

So I've still managed to replicate the issue where part throttle boost won't translate to full boost at WOT, still annoying but tolerable. However I did take another set of logs and they're looking decent again, WOT AFR's look good. Car doesn't act noticeably different from my previous hose routing but I'm glad it's fixed anyway.

Car was struggling to hit 100% IDC and it's a little down on power. It's been a while since I've driven in weather this warm, but I don't recall having difficulty maxing out the injectors before. Maybe the tune needs to be adjusted now?

I have a pre-ebcs log and post-ebcs fix log to compare, similar boost temps.

[Cheapspeed]

Looks like the car is doing much better now. Freek adjusted some boostload tables post EBCS vac line fix. The dark green and red are the new logs. I posted one the green log if anybody wants to look and give me some feedback.