GI: 75mm PnP Throttle Body Upgrade!!!

[jmhinkle]

I was in the same boat. I thought the different flange was for this larger TB so machining the mounting holes wasn't necessary.

[Speedie6]

I've got a question. The stock throttle body takes a 2.75" coupler. 75 mm is about 3", so will this upgraded TB take a 3" coupler or maybe 3.25"?

And, I don't really understand the mechanics. I understand that as far as the inter-cooler piping, going over-sized is actually detrimental. 2.25" and 2.5" cold pipes are common. But, it just seems strange to me that we need bigger throttle bodies if the OEM throttle body is already bigger than the cold pipe. Can someone, in brief layman's terms, explain this?

At any rate, I'm trying to figure out the best piping to run. I right now am running a CPE FMIC on my MS6. I might change that out, still deciding. But for now, assume I'm sticking with that. It has a 2.25" piping hot and cold. If I recall, it has a short 2.75" to 2.5" reducer silicone coupler to connect to the throttle body. The pipe that plugs into the 2.5" side of the reducer itself has a 2.5" to 2.25" expansion bulge. Then it comes to a 45 degree bend downwards where it hits up with the next piece of silicone hose.

To summarize, coming out of the throttle body, it is 2.75", then two quick reductions (2.75 to 2.5 to 2.25") then a 45 degree bend. I've always wondered if that was ideal. I've wondered if maybe it would be better if it was 2.75" through the 45 degree bend, and then have a more gentle transition down to 2.25". But, didn't know enough to know for sure.

So, I'm figuring that if I'm getting a bigger throttle body, then perhaps now I should revisit this. What will the coupler size be for this throttle body, and what is the proper design for the transition to the 2.25 cold pipe?

Thanks for any input!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I've got a question. The stock throttle body takes a 2.75" coupler. 75 mm is about 3", so will this upgraded TB take a 3" coupler or maybe 3.25"? And, I don't really understand the mechanics. I understand that as far as the inter-cooler piping, going over-sized is actually detrimental. 2.25" and 2.5" cold pipes are common. But, it just seems strange to me that we need bigger throttle bodies if the OEM throttle body is already bigger than the cold pipe. Can someone, in brief layman's terms, explain this? Thanks for any input!

ill focus on this part of your question and that may sum up the rest.

The reason you want "small" intercooler piping is for lag, it takes longer to pressurize 3" pipe than it does 2.5". However, once it gets to the throttle body, that is now a point of restriction. What this means is that you're having to work harder to force air through a smaller hole than you other wise would, same principle with porting the head / intake. The less the system has to work to push air into the intake manifold, and then into the cylinders, and then out of the cylinders the more power you will make.

I'm currently running 2.5" on my set up, and i know thats good for an ass load of power, you really don't need to step up above that unless you're trying to set a record on this forum. Also, keep in mind the OD of the throttle body is 2.75', with a much thicker sidewall than your IC piping. That + the fact that the throttle blade takes up a good amount of space (i think Skates already did that math somewhere in this thread) means you're actually operating with quite a small space to actually move air. Therefore: larger = better.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Also, keep in mind the OD of the throttle body is 2.75', with a much thicker sidewall than your IC piping. That + the fact that the throttle blade takes up a good amount of space (i think Skates already did that math somewhere in this thread) means you're actually operating with quite a small space to actually move air.

True. IIRC, the stock TB is 60 mm ID. Which is less than the 2.5" we have been talking about. And, your mentioning that the blade takes up space thus making the effective usable area smaller than the nominal size makes sense.

So, would this mean that it doesn't make much difference how you do the transition from the coupler on the TB down to the IC piping? As in, I would probably just need to change the 2.75" to 2.5" coupler to one that fits the new TB and be done with it?

By the way what does this TB need for the coupler? 3" or 3.25"

Originally Posted by Voltwings I'm currently running 2.5" on my set up, and i know thats good for an ass load of power, you really don't need to step up above that unless you're trying to set a record on this forum.

Of course people buying this baby are trying to make an ass load of power, LOL. Still, you got me convinced that I would need at most the 2.5". The turbo I'm currently running is a GT3071 with a T3 flange. I'm planning on upgrading it to a Forced Performance HTA3076. The question I have to ask myself is, do I need the 2.5" and a bigger intercooler, or will the CPE with the 2.25" be good enough? It would probably be brain dead stupid, but, it has actually crossed my mind to have my CPE interooler modded to have 2.5" pipe on the cold side and replace its cold piping.

Thanks for the input!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 As in, I would probably just need to change the 2.75" to 2.5" coupler to one that fits the new TB and be done with it?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Speedie6 By the way what does this TB need for the coupler? 3" or 3.25"

I'm not sure

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Of course people buying this baby are trying to make an ass load of power, LOL. Still, you got me convinced that I would need at most the 2.5". The turbo I'm currently running is a GT3071 with a T3 flange. I'm planning on upgrading it to a Forced Performance HTA3076. The question I have to ask myself is, do I need the 2.5" and a bigger intercooler, or will the CPE with the 2.25" be good enough? It would probably be brain dead stupid, but, it has actually crossed my mind to have my CPE interooler modded to have 2.5" pipe on the cold side and replace its cold piping. Thanks for the input!

2 Houston locals with BT are running piping smaller than 2.5". One has the CP-E, and is running it just as it came, and the other is on 2" pipe he made himself and still able to make 400 whp.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Voltwings 2 Houston locals with BT are running piping smaller than 2.5". One has the CP-E, and is running it just as it came, and the other is on 2" pipe he made himself and still able to make 400 whp.

Thanks. I was dyno'd at 360 on my current setup, on a Mustang. My current upgrade project is as follows:

1. Upgrade the intake from 3" to 3.5"
2. Upgrade the intake manifold/throttle body using of course the parts we are discussing in this thread. (I ordered the manifold with meth bungs, but will keep them plugged for now. Not sure if I will go that route or not.)
3. Upgrade the turbo from a 3071 to a Forced Performance HTA3076
4. Upgrade the in-tank fuel pump to the Deatschworks. I have a PTP HPFP.
5. Unsure about FMIC, maybe leave alone, not sure.

I'm wondering if I can get to about 425 on the same dyno.

[superskaterxes]

the tb takes a 3' coupler and is a very snug fit

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes the tb takes a 3' coupler and is a very snug fit

Okay, thanks! A 3" to 2.5" reducer is trivially common to find, so that'll be easy.

[TWOptSL0W]

so whats the news on this bad boy, i havent been around to check on it at all, you know...blowin motors and moving and all

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by TWOptSL0W so whats the news on this bad boy, i havent been around to check on it at all, you know...blowin motors and moving and all

pablo got a few units in and we are just waiting to get the spacers made, should be avail for purchase mid january!!!

[mazdafreak]

Put me down for one! Ill be picking the JMF manifold up soon!

[mazdafreak]

So when buying the jmf intake manifold, I want to choose the 75mm option on their website, once I pick this throttle body up right???

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak So when buying the jmf intake manifold, I want to choose the 75mm option on their website, once I pick this throttle body up right???

What I was told in this thread is that the 75 mm option will fit a stock throttle body. The difference between the two options is just which throttle body it is better matched to. But, I figure most people buying the JMF will eventually get this TB, even if they don't to begin with. So, probably almost everybody should buy the JMF with the 75 mm option. At least that is what I understood.

[Downmented]

@Speedie6; just fyi- its JMF not JDM you ricer

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Downmented @Speedie6; just fyi- its JMF not JDM you ricer

Yeah, my bad.

[mazdafreak]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 What I was told in this thread is that the 75 mm option will fit a stock throttle body. The difference between the two options is just which throttle body it is better matched to. But, I figure most people buying the JMF will eventually get this TB, even if they don't to begin with. So, probably almost everybody should buy the JMF with the 75 mm option. At least that is what I understood.

So basically to answer my question, yes, I would choose the 75mm option when ordering the jmf manifold lol.

[dawgincustoms]

So I ordered the JMF manifold with the 75mm option. Illl basically be on a bnrs3 with e85 and pushing it the most I can. Trying to get the car running by the end of the month. Hows production looking? And is there a final price yet?

[superskaterxes]

Spacers done!!!!




AFAIK pablo has 7-8 TB's ready to go. The price may fluctuate slightly because we are trying our best to buy these used (even though they only come on 2011 and newer cars so they are basically new) to help keep the costs down. Price is looking to be between $200-250 depending on how many we can source.

[mazdafreak]

How do we order this gasket and throttle body??

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by mazdafreak How do we order this gasket and throttle body??

the details are still being worked out. ill post here when its ready.

[anavrinIV]

I'm quickly becoming very interested in all of this...subbing for future reference and results

[dawgincustoms]

I am extremly interested in this as well. My JMF manifold is being worked on now and I am getting the last parts together on my build....

[LittleredMPS]

Gimme

Have JMF mani in the works, and it requires one of these (hint hint)

[superskaterxes]

woot!!! these came out great! super thanks to @jim@jmfabrication; for doing these.

so i have some questions for you guys

its becoming increasingly harder to find these TB's used. like mentioned before it takes 2 TB's to make one if you want it to be fully Pnp.



here are some other options that can be done to keep the price down:



1. purchase just the jeep TB and the jeep TB pigtail, cut off stock connector, solder on new one. this would prob be in the ~$175-200 dollar range

2. purchase just jeep TB, purchase jeep pigtail and stock MALE connector to make a mini PnP harness, prob around ~$200-225.

3. purchase the normal setup with a jeep tb, with fully PnP cover on it and all you need to do is swap 2 pins in the stock connector for it to work. prob around $250-300.


Also, there would be an extra ~$12 charge if you want a bead welded onto the TB bore to keep your couplers on.

the spacers come out to about $30 each as well.




we want to keep the price down as much as possible and make this super easy for you guys to install. so let us know what your thinking and we will try and accommodate the majority of people.

[dawgincustoms]

Do you have a picture of a finished one? Also is the third option the only one that has the electronics of the throttle body covered?

[superskaterxes]

here the spacers i got in today



and heres a finished TB




every option is identical as far as what you need to do to make it work electronically. you need to swap 2 pins on the harness and modify the DBW/APP tables slightly and your good (we will supply a great starting point for the ATR mods so no worries there).

just a matter of how flawless you want the install to be. if you want to cut the harness you can save money, if you want to just plug it in and be able to swap back to stock any time it will cost more.

[BobtailedSnail]

To source jeep TBs check with the employees at Advance Auto. I swear there are at least 3 that own some jeep.

[dawgincustoms]

Im game for option 2.

[madspd6]

I want one.

[SarcasticOne]

I would say #2 its what we are doing with the MAP sensors now, and allows the easiest option of "uninstalling" should we ever wish to

[SilverDemon]

option 2

[jmhinkle]

option 1 for me. I have so much non-stock, non-pnp shit that it doesn't matter at this point. Fuck, if there is someway to convert to Deutsch connectors, I'm down for that because I like them better than anything else.

[LittleredMPS]

Option 2 will work just fine for me.

[TWOptSL0W]

I'm good for option 1, with the welded bead. As for the bead, is it gonna be stacked dimes or something more rounded? I'm just worried that the space between the dimes would let some air through. Maybe we put a big bead on it then grind it round?

[Voltwings]

Whatever is easier for you to get me a throttle body is what i'm game with haha. i just wanna go fast option 2 seems to be easiest, as someone stated, its what we're already doing with the MAP sensors.

[superskaterxes]

ok guys it seems like most people are interested in option 2. were currently getting some pricing on both connectors so we can let you know what a more accurate price would be as soon as that info comes back.

send me a PM if you want option 1 right now.

[Snyeed]

add me to the list please.

[superskaterxes]

lots of good news!!!!

we have found both ends of the connector to mate the stock harness to the jeep TB so we can make this 100% pnp without having to buy another TB. This is a much cheaper option which is better for everyone so i think were going to leave it at that for now.


the first 7 TB's are already made using the original (2) TB approach and those will be for sale very shortly. None of them have beads welded on the bores yet and the holes still need to be elongated but otherwise they are ready.

[superskaterxes]

ok so even better news!!!!


i got a quote to have the PnP harness completely assembled and tested by one company which is totally awesome because then i dont have to crimp 12 pins on each one and we know it will be done correctly and work perfectly because its electrically tested.

i also found a local shop who is going to elongate the holes on all the TB's as well.


so who at this point needs a TB ASAP?

initially were going to run a batch of 25 TB's (including the 7 we already have) but it would be easier for us to send all 25 to each place at once to get modified and then welded.

i would say an accurate lead time from today is 3-4 weeks to your door for the PnP harness, the spacer, the modification, and to get the bead welded on them.

if you can forgo the bead it will be prob closer to 2-3 weeks, and if you wanna do the mod yourself closer to 1-2.

if you need this thing earlier then 3-4 weeks send me a PM and we can work something out.




and finally, after all costs are considered were looking to set these at $240 a pop which includes:

- Shipping to continental US (canada/AUS extra)

- BRAND NEW 74mm Jeep Throttle body (minus the first 7 which are from 2011+ cars so basically new anyway)

- CnC'd Spacer made of PTFE teflon (same material as the TIG's). This spacer provides a seal and makes up the gap to place the TB in the stock HORIZONTAL location. (the JMF mani places the entire TB slightly lower but in the same horizontal position)

- CnC Bolt hole elongation so that it can fit the stock TB bolt pattern (all JMF manifolds are made to stock TB bolt pattern even the 75mm flanged version FYI)

- Tig welded bead around the bore so that you dont lose a coupler!!!

- Complete PnP harness to adapt the stock TB harness to the new jeep connector with no modification.

- ATR DBW and APP tables that work well with this new bigger TB for near stock driveability.


we obviously cant start accepting any payments yet but pablo is working with kevin to get his vendor account setup and then we will be good to go.



any questions?

[Downmented]

Im in