Holset HE351VE VGT

[06Speed6]

So if I remove the vgt controller will the turbine housing fit? Im thinking of splitting the ebc signal to the wga into two for two wgas, one for a wga attached to the vgt and one for a tial 44mm wg.

Thoughts?

[Enki]

Dunno, I have one of these in my garage. Perhaps I can put it back together, measure it and see what the clearance is on a speed 3 (I know you have a 6, but if it fits a 3 it will sure as shit fit a 6).

Initial impressions of actually having one of these and seeing a 6's bay, I'd say yeah it will fit but you'll need a custom manifold AND reinforced bracing for the stock bracing point (it weighs like 60 pounds).

[06Speed6]

Oh boy this is sounding really good.

and holy fuck thats heavy!

EDIT: and is that fit without the vgt actuator or with the vgt actuator?

[dooderek]

WTF YOUZ GOT YOURSELF A VANE TURBO IM JELLY!!???

I GOT A 6031 IN MY CAR ATM AND TURBINE DOESNT HAVE AN ISSUE AT ALL, ITS A T3 HOUSING BUT IT STILL HAS ALOT OF ROOM TO GO. THE ONLY CLEARANCE ISSUE I RAN INTO WAS COMPRESSOR HOUSING. I HAD TO REMOVE A HEAD STUD ON THE BLOCK AND REPLACE WITH A BOLT BUT OTHERWISE I DUNNO

P.S THAT FUCKER IS HUGE MAN GL!111

[06Speed6]

Yeah it is a massive turbo but it spools easy because it can go from a ~.15AR hotside to a ~1.8AR hotside so it spools easy and it flows on the top end. There are some guys getting 40psi out of it before 3k rpm on 2.5l engines.

[superskaterxes]

LOLOLOLOL

leave it to marcus to further complicate things by using a VGT hahaha

by the time your done with this build your either going to have 1000whp on first key turn or your going to be dead haha.

it would be REALLY sick if we could get @Cobb Tuning or @David@COBB to find the EGR tables so that we could use that output PWM to drive a second EBCS or injector controller or something.

props for doing something different 06speed6!!!

[06Speed6]

Seriously, im between projects at the moment so I have had nothing but time to look at stuff. One of the dsm guys has a standalone vgt controller that references the maf and map and is tunable via usb, the problem is fitting the turbo and vgt, I am pretty sure that there is no room for that. How sweet would it be thoigh to have a 65lb/min turbo that spools at fast as a gt28.

Since half of us dont use a egr anyway that would be an awesome one to use, I bet it would be a low priority project though.

[leon78]

This sounds awesome...hope it materializes!

[SofaKingAwesome]

you have my attention.

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes LOLOLOLOL leave it to marcus to further complicate things by using a VGT hahaha by the time your done with this build your either going to have 1000whp on first key turn or your going to be dead haha. it would be REALLY sick if we could get @Cobb Tuning or @David@COBB to find the EGR tables so that we could use that output PWM to drive a second EBCS or injector controller or something. props for doing something different 06speed6!!!

I'll have to include them on the next release, the upcoming one is already into its testing phases so I can't add the tables to it. But yes, I've found them.

-David@COBB

[Enki]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Oh boy this is sounding really good. and holy fuck thats heavy! EDIT: and is that fit without the vgt actuator or with the vgt actuator?

If by VGT actuator you mean the part with the motor that drives the part everyone puts WGAs on yeah; the full turbo weighs like 60 pounds and the actuator weighs between 1 and 2 pounds (which is mostly motor). It isn't that heavy if memory serves.

Here are some reasons to look forward to dropping this in:

93 Subaru Legacy SS 4eat 20Psi Launch - YouTube

93 Subaru Legacy SS 4eat 20Psi Launch - YouTube

HOLSET HE351VE TURBO powered 1994 turbo mustang GT - YouTube

HOLSET HE351VE TURBO powered 1994 turbo mustang GT - YouTube

[Lex]

Only problem with VGT is that the mechanism doesn't like the EGT levels we see in gas engines hence why these are predominantly on diesel applications.

Originally Posted by David@COBB I'll have to include them on the next release, the upcoming one is already into its testing phases so I can't add the tables to it. But yes, I've found them. -David@COBB

Finally we'll be able to stock EGR without a blockoff on top of other good things. Nice!

[Vansquish]

I understand that you already have a VGT, but has anyone else looked at using one of these instead? AEROCHARGERS | VATN Turbos

[Enki]

EGT temps are less of an issue on this particular turbo due to how it is built; instead of using a bunch of individual vanes like in the Aerocharger pictured above, it uses a set of static vanes attached to a backing plate; this entire backing plate moves to reduce the cross-sectional area that allows airflow. Essentially, the turbine side A/R changes.

If I am not mistaken, the entire backing plate is also constructed of inconel (could be wrong on that...).

[IshiKage]

Originally Posted by Enki If by VGT actuator you mean the part with the motor that drives the part everyone puts WGAs on yeah; the full turbo weighs like 60 pounds and the actuator weighs between 1 and 2 pounds (which is mostly motor). It isn't that heavy if memory serves. Here are some reasons to look forward to dropping this in: 93 Subaru Legacy SS 4eat 20Psi Launch - YouTube HOLSET HE351VE TURBO powered 1994 turbo mustang GT - YouTube

omg. that thing sounded and looked like a jet taking off of an Aircraft carrier ha

[chuckms6]

some audi motivation
Turbo Talk - View topic - 2001 Audi A4 with a Holset HE351VE

i also remember someone with the same setup who wasnt running enough timing to keep egt's down and was loosing power. he didnt figure it out until everything melted

[Enki]

A note on turbo size:
The compressor wheel from a stock k04 will drop right in to the inlet on that Holset and NOT touch the walls; the ID on the Holset is slightly larger than the OD on the k04.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Enki If by VGT actuator you mean the part with the motor that drives the part everyone puts WGAs on yeah; the full turbo weighs like 60 pounds and the actuator weighs between 1 and 2 pounds (which is mostly motor). It isn't that heavy if memory serves. Here are some reasons to look forward to dropping this in: 93 Subaru Legacy SS 4eat 20Psi Launch - YouTube HOLSET HE351VE TURBO powered 1994 turbo mustang GT - YouTube

Alright if I am reading you correctly, you think it might actually fit with the factory actuator in place? If so thats amazing!

Yeah this turbo is fine with gasoline egt temps, diesels are only lower at idle and cruise, when pulling trailers or accellerating they hit 1600* and they can hold that egt for a long time. Most of the problems the gas guys have with these turbos is when they swap a wga in place of the factory vane actuator, apparently the turbo runs hotter than most turbos and the extra heat can ruin those wga if they arent placed away from the turbine housing.

Now all ill have to figure out is the "t3.5" flange and the 3.75" vband adaptor... yeah they just had to be weird. @RaceBuilt

[mrdouble99]

Would be good to find a way to control the actuator.

Because VGT are control by the engine ecm through J1939.

Or maybe find a way to send the same signal the ecm send

Found this thread

http://forums.nicoclub.com/holset-vg...t-t463902.html

[Enki]

Easiest way is to just use a WGA to push it open past say 5-10 psi (but just rolling on the boost will cause enough backpressure to recess the backing plate anyways, so you could just use a spring like some people do).

[06Speed6]

Alright I did some research and its Chris Suprock at Suprock Technologies that is developing a controller. It seems like its really well thought out and best of all it is tunable.

[Enki]

And if this is the one I'm thinking of, it will cost over $300.

[06Speed6]

I have been talking to @Enki and I believe this turbo will actually fit the ms6. This project may be a go

[Manny]

this is a badass turbo, props to you for taking on this project

[Navy_Mech2]

Originally Posted by manny this is a badass turbo, props to you for taking on this project

Indeed. I know a couple people running them on their boosed KA24DE's making around 500.

[06Speed6]

Yeah if I can actually get it to fit and I can control it properly its going to spool like a gt28 and flow like a gt38.

In other news, it does actually have a 3" vband outlet so it doesnt need an adapter. The turbine inlet flange is a WGMT flange which is between a t3 and t4 flange size.

[Enki]

Biggest problem I can see having with this thing is the sheer weight. You gonna get raped on shipping bud. (~60 lbs or so)

[06Speed6]

I generally use fedex for the heavy stuff, and if you make the label online you save 15% on shipping. If you want I can make one and send it to you, ide just need your address, the box size (x, y, and z) and weight on a bathroom scale. Then I can just email it to you and you can drop it off somewhere. Then I can send you some extra for packing.

Btw home depot has double wall boxes for a couple dollars, they are way cheaper than anywhere else. They are in the organization and shelving area at my store.

[BobtailedSnail]

I've looked into this as well. The aerochargers seem cool but I don't think they will flow enough exhaust. But Porsche has a gas VGT car but I can't remember what it's called (996??) it uses Borg Warner VGT turbos. I decided that the VGT would be too complicated for me so I'm goin Sequential once I acquire a built block.

[06Speed6]

Well I got some good news today, as some of you guys know I have been between contracts for about 2 weeks now because the one I was on got cut. I got word that I am starting a new project tomorrow morning, I am pretty excited because I was working on some really cool stuff for the car and now I can keep on.

You guys can look for this to happen, ill figure it out somehow.

[Enki]

I picked up some flat-rate boxes from USPS, and will hopefully make it fit in one of the smaller, cheaper ones. Turbo might need some assembly though lol

[mrdouble99]

i think i have one at the job.

I'll post pics tomorow

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by BobtailedSnail I've looked into this as well. The aerochargers seem cool but I don't think they will flow enough exhaust. But Porsche has a gas VGT car but I can't remember what it's called (996??) it uses Borg Warner VGT turbos. I decided that the VGT would be too complicated for me so I'm goin Sequential once I acquire a built block.

I believe that the only variable-geometry turbo that Porsche has used is in the 997 Turbo, 997 GT2, and Cayenne Diesel. I don't even think that the Cayenne/Panamera Turbo V8 uses VGT.

In case anyone is curious, it appears that the BW/KKK turbos that are used in the 997 have the following part numbers:

For the 997 Turbo - 480bhp (odd goes on the Left, even goes on the Right):

5304-970-0060
5304-970-0061

For the 997 GT2 - 523bhp (odd goes on the Left, even goes on the Right):
5304-988-0080
5304-988-0081

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by mrdouble99 i think i have one at the job. I'll post pics tomorow

You have one of these turbos too?

[06Speed6]

I found a standalone holset vgt controller from fleece performance and it works on 12v gas cars but I was looking at how it controls the vgt and it uses vacuum/boost as its only sensor input. I have been thinking about it and I am undecided on how effective this is, but it seems to make sence. I am guessing that it opens up the vanes in a vacuum/cruise state and in a very low vacuum/boost state it closes the vanes to build boost. Supposedly its fully programmable as far as how it controls the vgt, does this sound like something that is viable?

It almost seems too simple.

[BigRedSpecial]

This is some exciting shit. 40psi at 7000? yes please

[06Speed6]

Pfft 40psi at 2000rpm and 7000rpm! And thats in a cheaply rebuildable oil and water cooled turbo that is known to last forever.

[BobtailedSnail]

If you do this it's gonna be nasty. Prolly have to get the vanes coated to handle the high heat.

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Pfft 40psi at 2000rpm and 7000rpm! And thats in a cheaply rebuildable oil and water cooled turbo that is known to last forever.

Jesus Tapdancin' Christ. Holy area under the curve! Good bye rods

Any idea how much air that turbo is capable of moving?

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Jesus Tapdancin' Christ. Holy area under the curve! Good bye rods Any idea how much air that turbo is capable of moving?

About 65-70lb/min and its upgradeable. Supposidly it has the spool of a gt28 with the flow of a gt40, its crazy.