Im in the smoking turbo club.:(

[SharkDiver]

Hey all,
Well I installed my TXS DP about 3k-4k miles ago and just today the turbo started smoking.Ive had a oil CC on for a few months and was hoping this would save me but no dice.My car is a 07 so I was just waiting for this to happen and it did.I ordered a re-worked K04 from PG but they are about 2-3 weeks behind so I will have to drive with a smoking turbo for awhile.Man I was really hoping I would be one of the lucky ones with a good turbo.This came at a bad time too because Im suppose to goto the dragstrip this sunday for test runs and on the 24th Im suppose to race my brother in his 04 Mach1 with intake and exhaust.He has been giving me crap about how I will never beat him for years and now its time to find out and my turbo took a dump..Im wondering it I will be ok to run it with the seals leaking?I will have to look into this.

[aaronc7]

pics or vid? Just how bad is it?

[Lex]

This failure does not have a documented root cause. If so, what makes you think the PG reworked turbo won't have the same failure?

I think we have to find out what/where it's leaking from and why before a fix can really be found. When taking the turbo off, check the exhaust housing - any oil in there? Check the intake side for oil as well. Pics would be great.

[jhershorin]

Mine is smoking too. 06 ms6

[billyrohm]

This has probably been asked before, but how do I tell if I have a smoking turbo issue with my factory exhaust and cats? How much oil does it actually burn off? I guess I could tell that way.

[SharkDiver]

Originally Posted by Lex This failure does not have a documented root cause. If so, what makes you think the PG reworked turbo won't have the same failure? I think we have to find out what/where it's leaking from and why before a fix can really be found. When taking the turbo off, check the exhaust housing - any oil in there? Check the intake side for oil as well. Pics would be great.

Im assuming its the turbo seals because that seems to be what happens with 07 models that have a catless DP and testpipe.Im not sure that the PG re-work seals will not ever leak but it has a life time guarantee.I may take the DP off in the next few days and have a look in the turbo to see whats up.I will try to check both sides of the turbo and take some pictures..
Right now its only smoking when Im at idle and the smoke is blueish in color.Do you guys think its ok to run the turbo with the seals leaking?

[SharkDiver]

Originally Posted by billyrohm This has probably been asked before, but how do I tell if I have a smoking turbo issue with my factory exhaust and cats? How much oil does it actually burn off? I guess I could tell that way.

My oil on my dipstick has been dropping since my CC install but has gotten worse the last 2 weeks of so.It was at 3/4 way to full mark about 10 days ago and now it is at the bottom add oil line.I check it everyday and it seems to drop a hair everyday and most of it has been going into my oil CC but now it seems its getting into the turbo.

[crazyitalian041]

I ordered the pg reworked early just because i knew this was going to happen. In my 07 ms3 i had the turbo replaced 2 times... >.<

[boost_me]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 I ordered the pg reworked early just because i knew this was going to happen. In my 07 ms3 i had the turbo replaced 2 times... >.<

how does the rework compare to the stock one??

i personally believe if you want more reliable power out of these itty bitty turbos...

get a bigger one... GT3071R is what i want

[SharkDiver]

Originally Posted by boost_me how does the rework compare to the stock one?? i personally believe if you want more reliable power out of these itty bitty turbos... get a bigger one... GT3071R is what i want

I dont have the money for a big turbo now so I went with the re-work.Im pretty much done modding my car and running 18psi is all I need.Im just hopping the seals hold strong on the re-worked turbo so I dont have to take it apart again for awhile.They havent been out long enough to tell how they will hold up but Ill take my chances I guess.

[SharkDiver]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 I ordered the pg reworked early just because i knew this was going to happen. In my 07 ms3 i had the turbo replaced 2 times... >.<

Did mazda change your turbo 2 times or was the 2nd turbo a after market item that went out?

How is the re-worked turbo holding up?

[crazyitalian041]

Originally Posted by SharkDiver Did mazda change your turbo 2 times or was the 2nd turbo a after market item that went out? How is the re-worked turbo holding up?

2 OE mazda turbos, the one that came with my car and the replacement they gave me, both died. The rebuilt is not on my car yet i just ordered it but i will let you know.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 2 OE mazda turbos, the one that came with my car and the replacement they gave me, both died. The rebuilt is not on my car yet i just ordered it but i will let you know.

What exhaust are you running? How many miles on the car?

I heard Mazda updated the turbos for '08.

[gsrtype1]

thats why im hesitent to get the downpipe.. I got a midpipe with no smoke, might call it a day on the exhuast..

[7mileshome]

Im stock turbo and I had a huge cloud of smoke one time.... so i decided to put the OCC on... and the other day It happened again. Only twice, with two big puffs of smoke

So I dont think that the oil catch can is the resolution to the smoking turbo problem.

Hopefully the re-worked turbo is better. If not, GT series ftw.

[pdqgp]

A catch can isn't the solution....it's a band-aid over a problem that's not going to go away. IMO, what's likely happening is the exhaust is flowing faster then the WG can keep up with causing it to over boost which then causes oil to leak into the turbo housing. I don't see why there are so many questions about what's causing this?

Has anyone had their car professionally tuned by someone who is familiar with the motor/turbo combo? I'm trying to find out how the MS3 reacts to a mbc but I'm not finding much info. But the dyno charts I looked at for stock ones showed a couple of nasty dips. That tells me that the ecu is already compensating. If the car is already compensating for more boost and it gets cold and you have even more boost your running out of range for sure.

All the folks modding their MS3's without following what's actually happening to begin with and as a result of said mods are just asking for trouble.

Originally Posted by 7mileshome Im stock turbo and I had a huge cloud of smoke one time.... so i decided to put the OCC on... and the other day It happened again. Only twice, with two big puffs of smoke So I dont think that the oil catch can is the resolution to the smoking turbo problem. Hopefully the re-worked turbo is better. If not, GT series ftw.

[crazyitalian041]

I had the original turbo in my first speed... and the 08 model.. 2 times... im on a my new speed now with the reworked ordered.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by pdqgp A catch can isn't the solution....it's a band-aid over a problem that's not going to go away. IMO, what's likely happening is the exhaust is flowing faster then the WG can keep up with causing it to over boost which then causes oil to leak into the turbo housing. I don't see why there are so many questions about what's causing this? Has anyone had their car professionally tuned by someone who is familiar with the motor/turbo combo? I'm trying to find out how the MS3 reacts to a mbc but I'm not finding much info. But the dyno charts I looked at for stock ones showed a couple of nasty dips. That tells me that the ecu is already compensating. If the car is already compensating for more boost and it gets cold and you have even more boost your running out of range for sure. All the folks modding their MS3's without following what's actually happening to begin with and as a result of said mods are just asking for trouble.

Turbo smokes at idle. I don't think this is the result of overboosting. I think it's the result of poorly designed seals.

[jhershorin]

Well mine is an ms6 and its smoking BADLY. Only at idle and when you get going from a stop out of a parking spot. Least thats the only time I am able to see it.

This turbo was replaced at 20,000 miles and its at 32,000 now and smoking. Here comes another one.

[SharkDiver]

Originally Posted by jhershorin Well mine is an ms6 and its smoking BADLY. Only at idle and when you get going from a stop out of a parking spot. Least thats the only time I am able to see it. This turbo was replaced at 20,000 miles and its at 32,000 now and smoking. Here comes another one.

What mods do you have?DO you have a DP pipe?

[jhershorin]

All i have is a cpe intake and 2.5" test pipe. Nothing else right now.

[Buildabong]

my car smokes like a CHAMP after hard runs lol but i give it a lil quick 3rpm rev and it goes away.. but you should see my friends hahaha he has the corksport down pipe with no cat.. and a ghetto turbo back 3" all the way no cats and his smokes like snoop dogg! =D

[BlackMS3]

There's some documented cases of 100% stock cars smoking.... it just shows up faster without a cat or two.... eventually it will no matter what.

[Buildabong]

yup yup!! thats what i told my dad... i go good ol' mazda giving people shitty seals! =D

my cupler blew today.. or came off when i hit 20psi today lol aaaaaah maaaaaze ing! check engine light came on and i was pissed upset and worried my baby died but then i checked my codes got this due the the CUPLER!!! running rich at idle... 2times! and running rich while driving, and the infamous p2097! =D downpipe lol

[5_Alive]

Hi there.. I had my turbo replaced under warranty before it even did a damn thing.. my car had 15,500km on it.. squeaky exhaust-- went to get it fixed, and my dealer called to let Mazda Canada know about the exhaust squeakin'.. next thing I know, my advisor tosses me the keys to a Mazda6, says go home, we call you in a week, you need a turbo.. M.C. wanted it replaced before it had the chance to die.. I had no issue with that.. although now my car feels a lot better than when I first purchased it..
Warranty is your friend, however, mine was completely stock at the time they replaced it..
all i know from what I was told, was the updated turbo's have a better impeller blade, better seals, bigger somethin' or other inside the housing.. polished or ported, something to do with smoothing something in there.. (don't get me wrong, I forget exactly what it was, something along this line)..
My car runs fine.. only thing I have is an Injen CAI (installed 1500km after new turbo was installed, along with a Greddy-Type S)..
factory exhaust, boost, etc. etc.. and my car runs like a champ.. it has now about 18,000miles(28,500km or so)..
I bought it as a Mazda Canada car with 10,500km in March.. hehe.. so yea, I drive, A LOT.. and no issues really with the new turbo, yet..

[BlackMS3]

Yeah, well mine was replaced with the new part number under warranty and it started smoking within a month..... don't expect the issue to be resolved for long...

[5_Alive]

So then what the hell is wrong with Mazda? Is this turbo not capable of handling what is being thrown at it? I mean, its not just one or two cars.. its thousands of people.. from different areas, climates.. we all maintain our cars. So obviously they are either going to update and issue a different/new turbo, or they just might have to keep replacing them. Or the inevitable, issue a notice for re-purchase of our cars.
They should have just installed a GT28rs and called it a day.. hell, even the Protege had a T25.. I don't hear of those smokin' and blowing up??

[Buildabong]

my friends blue protege has a gt28..... and he said it came stock like that lol.. and you can see that lil turbo and it says garrett on it =D

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by pdqgp A catch can isn't the solution....it's a band-aid over a problem that's not going to go away.

That's kind of a blanket statement. A CC has fixed some peoples smoking problem and not everyone has a smoking turbo.

[Darksun280]

meth.......Meth keeps things so saturated its too heavy to smoke. Also for me stupid jiffy lube put 5-20w in my car and i smoked the entire 3 months some times more then others. put back 5-30w and that plus meth has my car smoke free and happy.

[gsrtype1]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 meth.......Meth keeps things so saturated its too heavy to smoke. Also for me stupid jiffy lube put 5-20w in my car and i smoked the entire 3 months some times more then others. put back 5-30w and that plus meth has my car smoke free and happy.

I have a freind who has the corksport dp mp catless and he said his smoke was cuase the dealer put in 5-w20(meant for the reg 3) they told me the same and then i read the manuel wich cleary said 5-w30 for the turbo. He put 5-w30 and no more smoke... he sais

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 I have a freind who has the corksport dp mp catless and he said his smoke was cuase the dealer put in 5-w20(meant for the reg 3) they told me the same and then i read the manuel wich cleary said 5-w30 for the turbo. He put 5-w30 and no more smoke... he sais

im so happy. It was so embarrassing siting in traffic and in NY we have ALOT of traffic to go around. I'm still a firm believer though that you really dont need to lose both cats but thats just IMO

[Demi]

So is the smoking turbo likely to damage something or not?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Demi So is the smoking turbo likely to damage something or not?

just your pride when your choking out everyone around you at red lights.....

[jweller]

Originally Posted by Demi So is the smoking turbo likely to damage something or not?

I know on a NA car, oil getting past the rings will burn the cat out. the oil gets caught on the catalytic substrate. this causes it to burn down stream of the engine. the additional heat will melt the guts of the cat, which will then collapse, and break up. On deceleration, your engine pulls a vacuum, and you 'll actually pull pieces of the cat back up into the motor, making the oil burning problem worse. I've seen catalytic substrate jam an EGR valve open.

Nissan put 4 catalytic converters and a new motor at 60k in my wifes old Spec-V. When Nissan did an oil consumption test, it was 3 qts low in 1500 miles. Trust me, it's gets real bad, real fast.

I can only imagine what ceramic dust would do to a turbo seal. not sure how much vacuum gets seen after the turbo. I know the dynamics are totally different from a NA motor.

IMHO, catalytic converters just can't handle the heat of the exhaust when they are placed way up close to the motor. The tighter EPA cold start regs have forced car makers to put a pre-cat up close and they just aren't designed to deal with the heat. I'm sure automakers will catch up quickly, if they haven't already, but I don't trust em.

[Demi]

Well im catless so hopefully it will hold until i save enough pennies for a new turbo.

[FCmaniac]

I know everyone has been going over this topic for months maybe a year or more now. We know the oil is either coming from the intake tract or from the oil feed line. We know that it happens usually at idle and when you rev it up or drive around to raise vacuum it goes away. Maybe this turbo just needs to see less vacuum when you open the exhaust side flow up. I have no idea how to do that but just throwing it out there. I wonder if increasing the size or flow somehow of the turbos oil drain line would fix it.

[FCmaniac]

Here's a post I found on an SRT forum:

If you have a car that resembles a James Bond tricked out SRT-4, please take the time and check this out.

A turbo drains its oil from gravity, nothing more and nothing less. If there is any restriction in the turbo's drain path back to the pan, oil will build up in the center housing. This oil is going to take the path of least resistance and will leak out of the turbine's side piston ring and turn into blue smoke coming out of the exhaust.

Most of your friends are going to tell you that you have a blown seal, and that your turbo needs to be rebuilt. 99% of the time, there is nothing wrong with the turbo. We get turbos in the shop everyday for rebuild because of the mysterious "blown seal" theory that lingers around every intarweb forum that deals with any turbo vehicle. These turbos are perfectly fine, and don't need a rebuild 99% of the time.

I'm putting this explaination together to help all of you save time and energy before you feel the need to send a turbo back to us for rebuild.

Lately, we've noticed a trend with some of the available "check valves" in this market that some shops are selling. Moreso, there are part numbers floating around this forum from industrial supply companies that many people are buying and installing. Most of these check valves will not work properly to allow enough crankcase venting so the turbo can sufficiently drain.

We've done some testing here with a local car and we were able to figure out what was going on. The very popular 1/4"NPT check valve has a .200" valve that is insufficient in allowing the engine to pull enough crankcase pressure when in vacuum. This extra crankcase pressure under vacuum conditions will cause the turbo to leak oil past the piston ring and results in blue smoke out your exhaust. Get rid of this size check valve as all your are doing are causing more problems for yourself.

That same company offers a check valve with 3/8" NPT ports and the valve size is .460". This valve is FTW, period.

We put the 1/4"NPT check valve on the car, let it sit at idle for 30 minutes. After about 20 minutes, the car started smoking, and got progressively worse over the next 10 minutes. Keep in mind, this is on a car that never smoked before. We then installed the 3/8" NPT check valve on the car and let it idle for 30 minutes. No smoke at all. We then put the smaller check valve back in, and instantly started smoking again.

[kraz3y]

whats a check valve and where can i find it in the engine bay? any pics?

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by FCmaniac Here's a post I found on an SRT forum: If you have a car that resembles a James Bond tricked out SRT-4, please take the time and check this out. A turbo drains its oil from gravity, nothing more and nothing less. If there is any restriction in the turbo's drain path back to the pan, oil will build up in the center housing. This oil is going to take the path of least resistance and will leak out of the turbine's side piston ring and turn into blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. Most of your friends are going to tell you that you have a blown seal, and that your turbo needs to be rebuilt. 99% of the time, there is nothing wrong with the turbo. We get turbos in the shop everyday for rebuild because of the mysterious "blown seal" theory that lingers around every intarweb forum that deals with any turbo vehicle. These turbos are perfectly fine, and don't need a rebuild 99% of the time. I'm putting this explaination together to help all of you save time and energy before you feel the need to send a turbo back to us for rebuild. Lately, we've noticed a trend with some of the available "check valves" in this market that some shops are selling. Moreso, there are part numbers floating around this forum from industrial supply companies that many people are buying and installing. Most of these check valves will not work properly to allow enough crankcase venting so the turbo can sufficiently drain. We've done some testing here with a local car and we were able to figure out what was going on. The very popular 1/4"NPT check valve has a .200" valve that is insufficient in allowing the engine to pull enough crankcase pressure when in vacuum. This extra crankcase pressure under vacuum conditions will cause the turbo to leak oil past the piston ring and results in blue smoke out your exhaust. Get rid of this size check valve as all your are doing are causing more problems for yourself. That same company offers a check valve with 3/8" NPT ports and the valve size is .460". This valve is FTW, period. We put the 1/4"NPT check valve on the car, let it sit at idle for 30 minutes. After about 20 minutes, the car started smoking, and got progressively worse over the next 10 minutes. Keep in mind, this is on a car that never smoked before. We then installed the 3/8" NPT check valve on the car and let it idle for 30 minutes. No smoke at all. We then put the smaller check valve back in, and instantly started smoking again.

I hate to say it but thats been one of the more informative guesses into the smoking issue I've seen in a while.