Installed the Turbo xs DP and let it smoke!

[speed3]

Just installed it. I had race pipe. Not much diffrente. I gained like 1 psi. But god damn the car smokes alot after hard runs.
Install went very good. I work at Dinan so I had access to lift and all the tools. Got lots of help from the techs. keep bitching about my car that is not a M3 blah blah blah. i have a leak in the exhaust so i am going to weld it on Monday when i go to work.

2008 with 6,000 miles. I dont care. Fuck the dealer and the warranty. I'm just gonna buy the hybrid turbo when is done. I dont need 30r turbo too much for me.

[driver311]

Nice, Im guessing the stock modified turbo is gonna break the heart of some of the guys with the big turbos. LOL I cant wait for mine.

[speed3]

Originally Posted by driver311 Nice, Im guessing the stock modified turbo is gonna break the heart of some of the guys with the big turbos. LOL I cant wait for mine.

yes sir. I mean your hitting 12's on stock turbo. So the the hybrid ine should get us in the 11's easy. For a FWD that is perfect. I would say 310-340whp.

[driver311]

Im thinking 310-320whp on stock boost in my car, and 350whp on 20psi and race gas. Ill see how the dyno goes to decide if I wanna push it anymore. Im sure the turbo will be good for 24psi.

[ptperformance]

I am really starting to get concerned that 90% of the DP's on the market that smoke after install are this one. Why are all the turbo smoking after the install of the Turbos XS unit?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by driver311 Nice, Im guessing the stock modified turbo is gonna break the heart of some of the guys with the big turbos. LOL I cant wait for mine.

The modded turbine housing should cut back on back pressure quite a bit. This is pre turbo back pressure not aft turbo.

[Haltech]

John,most people who install the Corksport or TXS unit see smoking. Its not the fault of any one company moreso, than the fault of the bad turbo seals. Since you are removing the big cat out of line, youre going to see that smoke big time.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech John,most people who install the Corksport or TXS unit see smoking. Its not the fault of any one company moreso, than the fault of the bad turbo seals. Since you are removing the big cat out of line, youre going to see that smoke big time.

Not buying it. Turbo seal don't leak because of the DP. If they are leaking the oil consumption would be off the chart and it appears to not be that bad with the owners that have leaking turbo seals. The cat can only do so much and burnt fuel vs burning oil is going to get caught by the cat? Not going to happen, its till going to smoke on start up or something if the turbo seals are going out.

There has to be something that is getting missed like EGT's or crank case pressures, something. I have an idea but not sure if it applies. Excessive back pressure can be keeping the turbo seals in place but when you get rid of that the CC pressure goes way up and pushes the seals out of the turbo, but you should see oil leaks if the CC pressure is that high. Something is just not adding up as to why all the turbo seals go away after the DP install. I would do some testing of the CC pressures but I just don't have the time.

[Haltech]

Well i removed the 2nd cat and my smoking became very constant after 5-15 seconds idling after seeing boost. I can only see how much more its exaggerated with a downpipe.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well i removed the 2nd cat and my smoking became very constant after 5-15 seconds idling after seeing boost. I can only see how much more its exaggerated with a downpipe.

See that would tell me that its a back pressure condition in the CC. I have to check out the PCV issue and see if that line is filling up with oil.

[Haltech]

What if i took a round metal plate, the size of the pvc line thats in the crank case and drilled a small hole? Would that give me my back pressure back to the CC?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech What if i took a round metal plate, the size of the pvc line thats in the crank case and drilled a small hole? Would that give me my back pressure back to the CC?

Yes it would give you CC pressure but you don't want CC pressure, you want a vacuum in there if you can get it. This is whats confusing me. The turbo seal are a metal ring that take an incredible amount of pressure to either push out or overheat. I have no idea what the hell is causing them to start leaking but it has to be something that needs to be addressed before we get to many upgraded turbos out to people. I mean think about it, we can not have big wheel stockers leaking or burning oil. It can not be the turbo causing these issues, its something I am missing.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Yes it would give you CC pressure but you don't want CC pressure, you want a vacuum in there if you can get it. This is whats confusing me. The turbo seal are a metal ring that take an incredible amount of pressure to either push out or overheat. I have no idea what the hell is causing them to start leaking but it has to be something that needs to be addressed before we get to many upgraded turbos out to people. I mean think about it, we can not have big wheel stockers leaking or burning oil. It can not be the turbo causing these issues, its something I am missing.

Well, its the exhaust scavenging than.

Give you an example that relates to this. We were throwing on long tube headers on the cobras. The better designed ones were causing us to smoke and pull oil out into the exhaust.. After many hours of investigating, it came to be the oil was being pulled out of the valve seats.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well, its the exhaust scavenging than. Give you an example that relates to this. We were throwing on long tube headers on the cobras. The better designed ones were causing us to smoke and pull oil out into the exhaust.. After many hours of investigating, it came to be the oil was being pulled out of the valve seats.

Yes your getting close. I am not going to say scaveging effects because this is a boosted car but maybe something like less exhaust back pressure on the cyl head and you are ending up with some sort of pressure cycle or vacuum control issue that causes the turbo seal either to get sucked out or pushed out of the turbine area. I am wondering if installing the breather tube off the valve cover would help with this condition with a vacuum canister in the exhaust system somewhere? I am in diss-belief that turbo seals would just "go out" because of a DP. There has to be some thing small that lots are missing.

Maybe I will do some vacuum readings with the DP then the stock cated unit. Maybe the gauge will show some changes.

[Haltech]

My only concern with adding a breather to the valve cover is that unmetered air can enter the system. Remember, this happens with MAF cars and you need to be careful here. If it was speed density, i would of done this already.

you know, i have a new breather i bought for the truck but never used. Im thinking it may fit the oil cap on the MS3.. I can try it and report my findings with AFR readings to match.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech My only concern with adding a breather to the valve cover is that unmetered air can enter the system. Remember, this happens with MAF cars and you need to be careful here. If it was speed density, i would of done this already. you know, i have a new breather i bought for the truck but never used. Im thinking it may fit the oil cap on the MS3.. I can try it and report my findings with AFR readings to match.

You could T into it? I have been thinking about that for a while now.

[Haltech]

T into the pvc line? That would be a small breather dont you think?

[Jesse MS3GT]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Now these are just your basic things but "lots" of people miss them when they start there modding. Mod list: Good quality exhaust system from the turbo back (make sure its a 3" system not 2.75 or smaller system like some others have been selling) 10 to 25 + WHP Now there has been some speculation about the back pressure on the turbo seal and high flow exhaust systems, this is utter nonsence. They are bad turbos seals going out not the lack of back pressure.

So which is it?? I just read what you said up there

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Jesse MS3GT So which is it?? I just read what you said up there

Wrong type of back pressure. I am talking about before turbo back pressure. This is the type of pressure that builds up in your crank case. If that were to drop off all the sudden the you could end up with a vacuum condition that sucks the seal inward. When I made that post I thought someone would think I was talking about the after turbo pressures. Its not, it before turbo pressures that I am not concerned with.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Haltech T into the pvc line? That would be a small breather dont you think?

No it would be a small coversion T with a larger T coming off for the breather. They do have some very small breather filters out there that could work. I will be checking all this out tonight on the car and checking to see if I can get something work and cause the turbo seals to burn oil.

[Haltech]

That would be a hot seller if it works.

[ZoomMS3]

my txs dp/ rp setup doesnt smoke.

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Not buying it. Turbo seal don't leak because of the DP. If they are leaking the oil consumption would be off the chart and it appears to not be that bad with the owners that have leaking turbo seals. The cat can only do so much and burnt fuel vs burning oil is going to get caught by the cat? Not going to happen, its till going to smoke on start up or something if the turbo seals are going out. There has to be something that is getting missed like EGT's or crank case pressures, something. I have an idea but not sure if it applies. Excessive back pressure can be keeping the turbo seals in place but when you get rid of that the CC pressure goes way up and pushes the seals out of the turbo, but you should see oil leaks if the CC pressure is that high. Something is just not adding up as to why all the turbo seals go away after the DP install. I would do some testing of the CC pressures but I just don't have the time.

THANK YOU !! this is what i have been saying since the dawn of time !! nit is not blown seals. mine smoked like a bitch with a TBE but stopped when i went to just a race pipe. do my seal have regenerting powers like a mutant from x-men ?! no... i fully believe it is backpressure/CC pressure related. that is why i still say a catch can and check valve should stop this.

my modded K04 is going on as soon as the corksport DP's come in to PG. i will be doing a catch can at that time too.

PTP did you put to gether a can/check valve kit yet ?
i would like one...at least the check valve anyways.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST THANK YOU !! this is what i have been saying since the dawn of time !! nit is not blown seals. mine smoked like a bitch with a TBE but stopped when i went to just a race pipe. do my seal have regenerting powers like a mutant from x-men ?! no... i fully believe it is backpressure/CC pressure related. that is why i still say a catch can and check valve should stop this. my modded K04 is going on as soon as the corksport DP's come in to PG. i will be doing a catch can at that time too. PTP did you put to gether a can/check valve kit yet ? i would like one...at least the check valve anyways.

Odd because my CBE with a racepipe smokes pretty bad after getting on it while at idle.

Which CBE do you use and does it have a resonator?

[Andrade08]

You know.........I built a 10.6:1 393 stroker in my Lightning and didn't bother doing a windage tray. I DRANK oil through the damn PCV all the time. So I took off the PCV and ran an open breather. It stunk but worked. Shifting that SBF stroker at 6200RPMs created some crank case pressure.
If you killed the PCV and just ran open breathers??????

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Andrade08 You know.........I built a 10.6:1 393 stroker in my Lightning and didn't bother doing a windage tray. I DRANK oil through the damn PCV all the time. So I took off the PCV and ran an open breather. It stunk but worked. Shifting that SBF stroker at 6200RPMs created some crank case pressure. If you killed the PCV and just ran open breathers??????

your lightning was a 93-95 variant? If so, it was a speed density truck, so you can get away with the breather.

On a mass air car, you need to fatten up the fuel where it leans out, especially during a gear change.

Now on my 02, i fixed the PVC problem in a real inexpensive fashion. You take a dime, which fits the diamater of the passenger side pvc hose, and push it up about 1/4 up where the PVC valve from the pvc valve attaches from the valve cover. Than i replaced the factory PVC valve with one from a 1993 302 5.0l mustang. No more oil problem. A lot of guys were spending $350 on a setup consisting of dual catch cans, brass fittings and hoses.

[Death-From-A-Mile]

Hey John do you have any suggestions for my setup? Obviously all of my plumbing is done, do I just need to install a check valve now? I can be the test car since mine is already smoking. I have Friday and Monday off of work if you want me to stop by and see if anything works to remedy this.

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by Haltech Odd because my CBE with a racepipe smokes pretty bad after getting on it while at idle. Which CBE do you use and does it have a resonator?

i have a PG race pipe and a chopped up stock CBE. i kept the muffler but got rid of the resonators. i just cant justify buying a CBE when i know it wont have any gains with that stock front cat in place.

[surfwagon]

Bump. Any breakthroughs yet?

[Bravnik]

I would bet my first born that the issue is Oil Blowback into the Intake. I have a Catch Can on order and should be here next week. I don't see seals leaking to be honest, but I'm new to Turbos but not new to common sense.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Bravnik I would bet my first born that the issue is Oil Blowback into the Intake. I have a Catch Can on order and should be here next week. I don't see seals leaking to be honest, but I'm new to Turbos but not new to common sense.

Yup, at this time, i totally agree with you.

[surfwagon]

It didn't solve IDRVSLO's issue. He only gets a few drops of oil in his catch can
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...l-smoking.html

[Haltech]

it works dude, check it:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...e-smoking.html

[surfwagon]

Originally Posted by Haltech it works dude, check it: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...e-smoking.html

Sah-wheat! That's great news! That was the only thing keeping me from running a down pipe.

[Andrade08]

Originally Posted by Haltech your lightning was a 93-95 variant? If so, it was a speed density truck, so you can get away with the breather. On a mass air car, you need to fatten up the fuel where it leans out, especially during a gear change. Now on my 02, i fixed the PVC problem in a real inexpensive fashion. You take a dime, which fits the diamater of the passenger side pvc hose, and push it up about 1/4 up where the PVC valve from the pvc valve attaches from the valve cover. Than i replaced the factory PVC valve with one from a 1993 302 5.0l mustang. No more oil problem. A lot of guys were spending $350 on a setup consisting of dual catch cans, brass fittings and hoses.

My Lightning was a 95 and it had Speed Density stock yes. But, nothing was stock on the truck. I wired in a 92 mustang GT A9L mass air ECM and used a Pro-M 77mm Bellmouth MAF with it. I still used the stock Speed Density ECM to run the E4OD tranny too.

Now, man....If this catch can is the save all.........

[speed3]

If thats the case, I wont be needing a reworked ko4 after all. Just Cobb and thats it. I have try this my self. I really hope it works.

[Crossbow]

Perhaps we should start a new thread detailing those with smoking issues, and whether or not the CC resolved them.

If a high % of people resolve their smoking issue with CC's, then it's a high probability that was the main cause. (I'm sure a small amount of people might of actually had some seal issues, but I agree it can't be a large amount).

[94jedi]

Originally Posted by Andrade08 a 92 mustang GT A9L mass air ECM

ahem...wasn't the A9L ECM from the 89 Notch LX Mustangs? I pulled one out of a wrecked 89 (along w/ the harness) back when I converted my old 88GT to MAss Air.


Back on topic..

The catch can is a nice solution but we shouldn't have to run that. I'm curious to see how these rebuilt PG turbo's do in terms of smoking. I'd love to get a DP/RP but with all the smoke, it just isn't happening for a while.

It sucks that we have to find a solution for a factory defect from either Borg-Warner or Mazda.

[surfwagon]

Originally Posted by Crossbow Perhaps we should start a new thread detailing those with smoking issues, and whether or not the CC resolved them. If a high % of people resolve their smoking issue with CC's, then it's a high probability that was the main cause. (I'm sure a small amount of people might of actually had some seal issues, but I agree it can't be a large amount).

A very good idea. Would a poll do the job?

Originally Posted by 94jedi The catch can is a nice solution but we shouldn't have to run that. I'm curious to see how these rebuilt PG turbo's do in terms of smoking. I'd love to get a DP/RP but with all the smoke, it just isn't happening for a while. It sucks that we have to find a solution for a factory defect from either Borg-Warner or Mazda.

This is true.