Lets talk about Bigger Throttle Bodies

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon *sniff.....sniff* Hmmmm I smell some custom work that needs to be started.....

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark As long as we get the AccessPort tables figured out for drivability, what's stopping me from making a larger throttle body from billet aluminum that accepts the factory gears/electronics?

This is what I meant by my statement in post 3.....

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark I'll have to go measure the overall dims of the throttle body, but I'm thinking around 40-50 in material. Could be wrong. I'll add this to my list. Maybe I could get started soon, seems easy enough. I'll have to add in the cost of fancy packaging though, so that's about $60 right there With this being said, if I can get something to incorporate stock hardware, where do i get this hardware from? Core exchange program? I could reverse engineer the little parts, but that would drive the cost sky high. I highly doubt the TB gears/electronics can be ordered separate from the body itself. @SPEED6 KILLAHwould know that.

why not just let the consumer swap it like the skunk2 unit? u just sell us the completed TP/housing and we swap over our stock guts/cover.

[h.h.sk1nny]

hillbilly: "Hey duz dat thing got uh hemi in it?"

MS owner: "Fuck yeah bitch!!!!!!!!"

[bcmurphy87]

in b4 aftermarket TB options are availible before IM hits the mass market.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark I could reverse engineer the little parts, but that would drive the cost sky high. I highly doubt the TB gears/electronics can be ordered separate from the body itself. @SPEED6 KILLAHwould know that.

You can not get the tb gear separate or take it out because it press in. Also you will have to make the adjustment on the gears too..
basically you would have to reverse engineer the Tb. Its really not worth it because of the cost. You can the a new TB for $200.00 with the wire...

[06Speed6]

I did a little research, I think @Erich's TB is the 74mm 2011-2012 Dodge 3.6L TB. The Dodge 3.5l V6 TB is 64mm and the hemi 5.7l v8 TB looks like 80mm

EDIT: Erich's TB is likely ported, the ported TB that is available has a 80mm radiused opening with the oem 74mm oem blade. IIRC the blade is not replaceable.

EDIT #2: 74mm is 2.9", which is a 6.6sq" area, subtract out 20% for the blade and shaft... 5.28sq" area... thats about a 2.6" dia useable area TB

EDIT #3: I am starting to like that TB alot

[Boosted Beluga]

Any more edits^^^

[mrmonk7663]

Do you have more info on this throttle body. This size would be ideal for an upgrade in my opinion for everything 3076 and under. In my experience, even if the stock throttle body can support up to XX HP, on a boosted application a slightly larger TB tends to lend to gains, even if they aren't "huge" gains. Many of us have ported stock intake manis, which include porting of the throttle body opening area of the manifold. A 66mm would be perfect.

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH For the people who dont wanna go big can get a 66mm some one just need to make a spacer to center it out

[06Speed6]

That is the 3.5L dodge v6 TB.

Factory OEM CHRYSLER 300 DODGE Charger NEW Throttle Body 2.7L 3.5L 4.0L | eBay

The problem with making an adapter is that the holes in the TB are almost on top of the holes in the IM so you would have to make a really thick adapter which is $$$$. If you have to spend $300 on a limited market 4" spacer that is not a bolt on because the intake system would have to be rebuilt, which is more $$, why not just drop $600 on a new IM that keeps the stock TB location?

Or you can cut the oem IM's TB flange off and machine a new one and weld it on and blend it in, but that isnt going to be much cheaper because welding and port matching arent cheap.

[superskaterxes]

pablo is sending me a sketch of the hemi TB bolt pattern and im gona see if i can get one made locally. it depends on how much overlap there is between the bolts before we can decide how to tackle it

[MarkyMark]

If someone wants to send me that TB, I'll make an adapter plate and price out a part in about a week.

[Liquid3Speed]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes you have part numbers? ive never heard of doing this....................

I don't as I don't work for chrysler, but a dealers parts department should be able to get them, they will want a vin of a vehicle though. This is because parts guys in this day and age suck and can't do a damn thing without a computer. The easy way is find a truck that they have on their lot and use that vin.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 That is the 3.5L dodge v6 TB. Factory OEM CHRYSLER 300 DODGE Charger NEW Throttle Body 2.7L 3.5L 4.0L | eBay The problem with making an adapter is that the holes in the TB are almost on top of the holes in the IM so you would have to make a really thick adapter which is $$$$. If you have to spend $300 on a limited market 4" spacer that is not a bolt on because the intake system would have to be rebuilt, which is more $$, why not just drop $600 on a new IM that keeps the stock TB location? Or you can cut the oem IM's TB flange off and machine a new one and weld it on and blend it in, but that isnt going to be much cheaper because welding and port matching arent cheap.

All you need is a 1" spacer and counter sinking the hole like in this picture

[mrmonk7663]

Do you have a link for the spacers you just posted, and can you verify if the 66mm TB electronics work the same as our stock, or is it different and requires mods/recalibrations within the TB itself? You have me VERY interested.

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH All you need is a 1" spacer and counter sinking the hole like in this picture

[06Speed6]

Is there enough room to countersink a bolt? I didnt think there was.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark If someone wants to send me that TB, I'll make an adapter plate and price out a part in about a week.

pablo is sending it to me so i can get one made locally and verify all of the electronics. once this is done ill send it to you (if its ok with pablo) so u guys can make us an adapter.

would you be able to do rifling on the inner bore to help swirl the air for people who have AUX injection?

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 Do you have a link for the spacers you just posted, and can you verify if the 66mm TB electronics work the same as our stock, or is it different and requires mods/recalibrations within the TB itself? You have me VERY interested.

testing will commence once i get the TB from pablo

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Is there enough room to countersink a bolt? I didnt think there was.

we shall see!!! if not do u see a problem rotating the TB 20ish degrees to allow the bolts to no longer line up? ive never seen a TB at any angle other then 0 and 90 so it begs the question if this really matters or not.

also does it matter if the top of the throttle plate opens towards or away from the manifold?

[mrmonk7663]

Ok Anthony, so you will be testing the 64mm chrysler 300/charger TB correct? This throttle body can be opened up to 71 or 72mm successfully...it is common for the V6 crowd to do that to the TB...so if this throttle body works it will theoretically provide us with a very wide range of power configurations!!!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes also does it matter if the top of the throttle plate opens towards or away from the manifold?

noob answer...yes. the blade would probably direct flow more so in one direction than another if not at a 90 or parallel to the runners.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 Ok Anthony, so you will be testing the 64mm chrysler 300/charger TB correct? This throttle body can be opened up to 71 or 72mm successfully...it is common for the V6 crowd to do that to the TB...so if this throttle body works it will theoretically provide us with a very wide range of power configurations!!!

no ill be testing the 80MM one AFAIK.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Is there enough room to countersink a bolt? I didnt think there was.

Should be. I'll just get different hardware to bolt the assembly together.

Even a 1/2 spacer will throw TMIC fitment off. I'd prefer to make the spacer comforatbly, which would be a little thicker, and those with FMIC piping would be much easier to accommodate.

I would prefer to build a whole unit. I'll try to get this TB i have here taken apart all the way to analyze it.

[doubleflusher]

Those with a TMIC need not try this mod.

They're already way behind the 8 ball for making power.

[mrmonk7663]

Alright, there have been too many throttle bodies thrown into this thread. Lets Catalog.

HEMI 05-12 Challenger, Charger, 300, Magnum 5.7L, 6.1L, 392/6.4L $120 or so...spacer most likely needed

05-10 300/Challenger/Charger/Magnum 2.7L or 3.5L- 64mm (able to be ported to at least 71mm) $70-$100 NEW Spacer needed most likely

Stock Optimized Throttle Body-60mm with partly opened up to 64mm $285 NEW

CX9 Throttle Body-72mm optimized (electronics are different and a bitch to work with) $300+

Did I miss anything?

I for one and interested in the 64mm Charger throttle body. These can be opened up safely to 71MM...so you would have a throttle body that could grow with your application. 80MM is huge and would be better reserved for the "big dogs"...for everyone else I would believe the 64-71mm range would be sufficent for normal BT applications (GTX series, BNR, etc)

So with this recap, do any of yall have information on the 64mm Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300 V6 Throttle body other than the pictures that were posted in this thread?

[06Speed6]

Anthony do you want the 74mm 3.6l and cx-9 tb?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 Alright, there have been too many throttle bodies thrown into this thread. Lets Catalog. 5.7 Hemi Throttle Body...Purportedly 80mm $120 or so...spacer most likely needed Dodge Charger V6 TB- 64mm (able to be ported to at least 71mm) $70-$100 NEW Spacer needed most likely Stock Optimized Throttle Body-60mm with partly opened up to 64mm $285 NEW CX9 Throttle Body-72mm optimized (electronics are different and a bitch to work with) $300+ Did I miss anything? I for one and interested in the 64mm Charger throttle body. These can be opened up safely to 71MM...so you would have a throttle body that could grow with your application. 80MM is huge and would be better reserved for the "big dogs"...for everyone else I would believe the 64-71mm range would be sufficent for normal BT applications (GTX series, BNR, etc) So with this recap, do any of yall have information on the 64mm Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300 V6 Throttle body other than the pictures that were posted in this thread?

You missed the 74mm V6 Chrysler TB that I am using.

[06Speed6]

Bro I think you are the only person in this thread that is willing to drop hundreds of dollars into custum fab work for a tb that is less than a quarter inch bigger than stock.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Anthony do you want the 74mm 3.6l and cx-9 tb?

ill take the 74mm TB, i dont think its worth it to have to tear apart the CX-9 TB to get it to work. its going to be hard enough getting the other ones dialed in with ATR let alone having to gut them a re-position the TPS and whatnot.

my goal at this point is to get an adapter made for 1-2 TB's and get it working well enough to say its not destroying the drive-ability of my car.

going fast is cool, but if i want to kill someone driving in traffic/PT because of my TB then i wont be running one of these lol

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Erich You missed the 74mm V6 Chrysler TB that I am using.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Bro I think you are the only person in this thread that is willing to drop hundreds of dollars into custum fab work for a tb that is less than a quarter inch bigger than stock.

well...he is the undisputed MS DISI HP king.....so there's that.


lol

[Erich]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Bro I think you are the only person in this thread that is willing to drop hundreds of dollars into custum fab work for a tb that is less than a quarter inch bigger than stock.

Guess I didn't really consider what somebody else would have to drop into it. That being said, I certainly didn't drop hundreds of dollars of custom fab work for it to work (unless you include my IM and Intercooler set up, which was happening no matter which throttle body I went with.)

[Domino81]

I'll read this later when I'm not swamped at work.

And god damn you mother fuckers for giving me another thing to freak out about because I have to figure out where the money is coming from because god forbit I not have a any additional power adders on this car that I didn't before...

[mrmonk7663]

Updated

HEMI 05-12 Challenger, Charger, 300, Magnum 5.7L, 6.1L, 392/6.4L-80MM $120 or so...spacer most likely needed

05-10 300/Challenger/Charger/Magnum 2.7L or 3.5L- 64mm and able to be ported to 72mm. Need Spacer

3.6L Chrysler/Dodge Throttle Body -74mm and can be ported up to 80mm. Need Spacer About $180 New

Stock Optimized Throttle Body-60mm with partly opened up throat to 64mm $285 NEW

CX9 Throttle Body-72mm optimized (electronics are different and a bitch to work with) $300+

[06Speed6]

@Dano @Erich I was talking about mrmonk7663 wanting the 64mm tb. The 74mm tb is a good fit for any of us I think.

[06Speed6]

Anthony one thing to consider is that if erich/john had that much trouble dialing in a 74mm, the 80mmthe is going to be harder and even more on/off. Supras have a 71mm tb and they dont have trouble hitting the numbers we want.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Anthony one thing to consider is that if erich/john had that much trouble dialing in a 74mm, the 80mmthe is going to be harder and even more on/off. Supras have a 71mm tb and they dont have trouble hitting the numbers we want.

I think it would have been much easier with the proper tables instead of using what is available for a workaround.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 @Dano @Erich I was talking about mrmonk7663 wanting the 64mm tb. The 74mm tb is a good fit for any of us I think.

O I C...I was afraid that might be the case...that you were talking to mrmonk

[mrmonk7663]

I'm not willing to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars getting a throttle body marginally larger to fit. With the picture of the 64mm TB that was posted I was under the impression that it had already been adapted successfully to our platform by someone, hence I was focusing on that TB. Also, the fact that it can be ported to 72mm made it even more attractive. If it's a bitch and a half to adapt then no I wouldn't want to do it. We have tossed around so many different TBs in here in a short period of time, the thread was getting jumbled, so I made the list a few posts above. Maybe you guys were not getting lost but I was haha.

So for now, it looks like the upcoming testing will be the 74mm 3.6L throttle body correct, and it will be done by Anthony?

I have access to a machine shop 5 days a week, and if I had drawings and or a TB I could get the guys to make a spacer with the countersunk holes etc...so it would be no money invested on my part for the spacer aspect. At the same time I have no desire to have to take apart and rewire a throttle body unit.

[SPEED6 KILLAH]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes pablo is sending it to me so i can get one made locally and verify all of the electronics. once this is done ill send it to you (if its ok with pablo) so u guys can make us an adapter.

Sure send it to mark once your done with it. Hopefully mark won't take long making the spacer..

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by SPEED6 KILLAH Sure send it to mark once your done with it. Hopefully mark won't take long making the spacer..

Seeing the limited number of peeps, I'm sure I could get 50 working into machining schedule and the price wouldn't be too bad. Although it would take a year from now to sell them all LOL.

[Boosted Beluga]

With the amount of ppl going big turbo there might be more interest then you think. Plus ppl might do this before going BT as a supporting mod. Hell even if a bolt on k04 car put the TB on and it showed some gains I'm willing to bet ppl would jump all over these.

[mrmonk7663]

I'm k04 and itching for one of these. I'll be the k04 guinea pig

[uncorked11]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark Seeing the limited number of peeps, I'm sure I could get 50 working into machining schedule and the price wouldn't be too bad. Although it would take a year from now to sell them all LOL.

I think it would take less time to sell like other have said for the reasons posted above. if it works well and tuned easy with average pricing I will upgrade as well.