Official 'smoking turbo' response from Mazda

[tunersteve]

Hey everyone, here's the email I received from my local service manager after I stopped in to question him about the 5w-40 rumors.

SMOKE FROM TAIL PIPES AFTER PROLONGED IDLE PERIODS

Applicable Models

Model Starting S/N Ending S/N Model Spec CX7 2007-2008 000001 209008 P/D BEFORE 2/15/2008 MAZDA6 2006-2007 000001 999999 ALL MAZDASPEED6 MAZDA3 2007-2008 000001 880368 P/D BEFORE 2/6/2008 Related Category/Subcategory/Symptoms

ENGINE / MECHANICAL / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE
ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / BLACK SMOKE
ENGINE / MECHANICAL / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION

MTOL - 5505 Dealer Repair Information

Symptom and Conditions


Applicable Model(s) VINS

CX-7 JM3ER ****8* 209008 Produced before 2/15/08
MAZDASPEED6 ALL ALL
MAZDASPEED3 JM1BK ****8* 880368 Produced before 2/6/08

Some customers may experience white/blue smoke from their exhaust pipes
after prolonged idle periods and/or while driving in traffic at very
slow speeds.

This condition may be the result of the turbo's oil supply not being
able to adequately drain out of the turbo during long idle periods.

Vehicles having this concern should be diagnosed using the following diagnostics procedure.
Repair Procedure


1. Confirm that the proper maintenance intervals have been performed.

2. With the engine at normal operating temperature, allow it to idle
for an extended idle period.

Caution:
Closely monitor the engine coolant to the assure the engine does not Overheat.

3. If smoke from the exhaust is present after the extended idle period,
take before pictures of the smoke, then change the oil and filter
using 5W/40 (synthetic). After the oil change, in order to burn off
the oil that remains in the exhaust system, perform the following:
start the engine, check for oil leaks, then let it idle for 10
minutes, after the 10 minute idle period, increase the RPMs to 3000
for 1 minute, repeat idle test to confirm that no smoke returns.

A: If the smoke returns, contact the Technical Assistance Hotline
(Select option #2 for Major Assembly Authorization) with the oil
change history information, to attain an authorization for a turbo
replacement.

B: If smoke DOES NOT RETURN after the repeat idle test, NO other repairs
are to be performed at this time. Explain to the customer that MAZDA
is currently working on an improved positive crankcase valve (PCV)
system to reduce the engine crankcase pressures to allow the turbo's
oil supply to drain from the turbocharger more efficiently This fix
will be available approximately within 90 days and at that time the
oil will be changed back to 5W-30 and the improved PCV system will be
installed


Sounds like something is on its way for this problem. I searched but couldn't find any info that was similar to this.

[AndyMS3]

Thanks for sharing.
Good to know in the event I start smoking.

[bova]

interesting that they are changing the valve, i hope this stops all the cry babies who think their turbo is blown!

[mituc]

Originally Posted by tunersteve 1. Confirm that the proper maintenance intervals have been performed. 2. With the engine at normal operating temperature, allow it to idle for an extended idle period.

How much time an "extended period of time" means? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? can someone explain?

[AndyMS3]

Originally Posted by mituc How much time an "extended period of time" means? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? can someone explain?

I think people were averaging 3-5 minute idle times before they saw smoke.
I remember reading about a few members sitting in drive-thru's waiting and smoke would start bellowing out.

Anywhere form 3-10 minutes should do it.

[tunersteve]

When my turbo was replaced, it took somewhere between 10-15 minutes. I actually recorded video of it smoking and took it with me when I took the car in.

I'm guessing they'll issue a TSB to upgrade the PCV system on our cars after the workaround has been figured out.

[SonnyBonahoe]

sweet! i've been talking to my dealer about this for a while.... now i'm walking in with this and going to "ask nicely" again for some action by the dealership to fix/replace!

[DaleNixon]

So MS3's produced after 2/6/2009 shouldn't exhibit this problem? I'm probably going to switch to 5w40 anyway.

[AndyMS3]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon So MS3's produced after 2/6/2009 shouldn't exhibit this problem? I'm probably going to switch to 5w40 anyway.

2/6/2008

[Erich]

Originally Posted by stratum 2/6/2008

FWIW my car has a date of 02/08 and still has the same PCV system components as older cars.

[Darksun280]

5w40 cleared up my issue months ago

[Lex]

Does this mean that the newer model speeds have the "improved" PCV system/valve already installed?

[evidence]

Originally Posted by Lex Does this mean that the newer model speeds have the "improved" PCV system/valve already installed?

I think Mazda actually redesigned the turbo (or components of it atleast) at that time. I remember some guy telling us his tech told him Mazda had changed the oil lines in the new turbo. Everyone doubted him saying they prob just switched manufacturers and that's why the model changed. It's all coming toghether..

I guess the positive news is it seems pretty harmless.. just burning off some oil.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by evidence I think Mazda actually redesigned the turbo (or components of it atleast) at that time. I remember some guy telling us his tech told him Mazda had changed the oil lines in the new turbo. Everyone doubted him saying they prob just switched manufacturers and that's why the model changed. It's all coming toghether.. I guess the positive news is it seems pretty harmless.. just burning off some oil.

Maybe this isn't the whole story.

[JohnnyT]

Hot damn. I knew my seals were fine.
I'm already on 5w40 so I guess I'll just wait for the PCV fix.

[Trader]

Originally Posted by tunersteve ....Explain to the customer that MAZDA is currently working on an improved positive crankcase valve (PCV) system to reduce the engine crankcase pressures to allow the turbo's oil supply to drain from the turbocharger more efficiently This fix will be available approximately within 90 days and at that time the oil will be changed back to 5W-30 and the improved PCV system will be installed.....

Does this mean that the pcv valve will be a recall item? Could I get the valve even though I have not started smoking??

[tunersteve]

Here's my response from my dealer about the 'spreadsheet' that I keep for my oil changes:

Keeping it on a spreed sheet is better than nothing, but I would suggest you start writing the mileage and date on the top of the sales receipts for your oil and filter as well. But this is still no guarantee. When someone has a concern with an engine or power train component and we don't have detailed records Mazda will usually require partial tare down before they will authorize or deny a claim, such as removing a valve cover or oil pan to check for sludge or signs of lack of maintenance. We do not make the call at the dealer level. Mazda has to authorize all major claims. Just for future reference, we certainly don't have a problem using your oil if you would like us to do your maintenance for you. I have several customers we do that for. The bill comes to about $15 for labor and filter. This way you would have records with Mazda as well.

[MZRDISI4]

Yay!!

I hope. I wants me a revised PCV..

It won't be a recall, it'll be a part revision that would be replaced under the powertrain warranty, only if the heavy oil does not fix the problem. Otherwise you could just buy it yourself

[RUMBLEFISH]

I did the 5-40 the first time I saw smoke and it still does. It only happens if I ride it hard then after that it will smoke at every stop real bad. If I go easy the next day and drive normal no smoke.

The problem I have is them wanting oil changes with all the documentation. I guess I should get to work on that but now sure how to proceed. Maybe I should just hold out until the fix comes then just buy it if they will not install it under recall without all the documents.

[kore2000]

I find it interesting that they put a caution statement about the engine overheating. Most normal cars don't over while idle so why the caution statement? I wonder if Mazda also realizes that this engine bays gets extremely hot and maybe they sealed it up a little too well.

[Koobers]

My MS6 is stock and has 43,000 miles on it and started smoking over the holidays, I noticed it first while at a drive thru but I didn't think it was coming from my car. The next day I left it to idle in the driveway and ran in the house and took about 10 mins and when I came out there was smoke all the way down the street. My uncle works for Ford's SVT division building engines and he thought it was coolant leaking into the engine and burning off.

I took it to the dealer and they said the turbo was getting clogged and that it's been a problem with the 2.3L engines so they changed the oil to 5w-40 and said that it should fix the problem and if it didn't to bring it back and they would have to swap out te turbo. They made it sound like they needed the service record but they didn't charge me, who knows mabe they're sending me a bill. It started smoking again about 3 days later and it's not as bad as before the oil change but now I'm noticing oil specks coming out the exaust.

I'm glad I read this post because the dealer made it sound like the turbo was faulty and I thought it would be stupid to take it back and have them swap out one crappy turbo for another. I was going to look into replacing it with an aftermarket turbo, but if the problem is with the PCV I'll wait it out and see if I can get them to replace it once they come up with a permanent fix. I found service records from the original owner in the glove box and I should have all my receipts from my oil changes, I'll have to see if i can make a spread sheet and gestimate the milage.

[BoostIsBetter]

What i'm curious about is why then my Mazda dealer told me about the switch to 5w-40 from their techs and switched it for me, when I have an 09 with a 11/08 build date. It doesn't make sense to me? Does it mean we have this pcv fix already? I'm confused, lol.

Eitherway, this sounds great for everything!

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DCR or someone mention something about the pcv system and a correlation with blown motors?

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by BoostIsBetter What i'm curious about is why then my Mazda dealer told me about the switch to 5w-40 from their techs and switched it for me, when I have an 09 with a 11/08 build date. It doesn't make sense to me? Does it mean we have this pcv fix already? I'm confused, lol. Eitherway, this sounds great for everything! I'm not sure if I remember correctly, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DCR or someone mention something about the pcv system and a correlation with blown motors?

PT-P brought up a new PCV fix, but it won't save your motor:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ng-tested.html

[BlackMS3]

Mine was replaced at 23K. Took 10 minutes to start smoking and when it did, you couldn't see through the cloud.

I pulled up to the dealer after running it hard the whole way, parked it and let it sit and idle while I went in to talk to the service manager and by the time I explained everything and we walked out, the side of the building was engulfed and they were like "holy fucking shit!!!" LOL...

[Fobio]

STICKY!

[YammerR1]

Originally Posted by Fobio STICKY!

I vote for Front Page News!

My totally stocker has started smoking too, with 5W-30. Drive it hard in boost, then let idle for about 3 mins for my smoke show. The weak turbo seals will eventually leak with the oil not draining properly from the turbo, even for cars without exhaust mods like mine.

[Addikted To Boost]

my 09 was pouring blue smoke after about 4 minutes with just a race pipe. That was with 5w 40 and a catch can. I put in my bnoon banjo bolt and no more smoke. I will be getting this pcv fix though if i can do it without messing up my catch can setup. Thanks for the info man, i wonder if they will deny me because mine was built after 02/08?

[Hank3]

Might be good to see how much this new PCV will cost. And the difficulty in swapping it out.

[MOVOVR]

I just started getting smoke at idle within the last 2 days. Problem is, I have no cats whatsoever so my guess is I'd have to take the DP off and put it back to stock before the dealer would acknowledge actually seeing any smoke.

[BlackMS3]

Originally Posted by MOVOVR I just started getting smoke at idle within the last 2 days. Problem is, I have no cats whatsoever so my guess is I'd have to take the DP off and put it back to stock before the dealer would acknowledge actually seeing any smoke.

And doing that would likely mask the smoke completely for some time....

[Hank3]

Do modded cars have a tendency to smoke more than stock? All I have is a SRI and a TIP. I'm not planning on changing the exhaust bits or taking out any cats.

[BlackMS3]

The cats on the stock exhaust typically mask the issue, other mods really wouldn't have an effect. So if you get an aftermarket TBE or RP, it would make the issue more apparent.

[RUMBLEFISH]

Well I just stopped at a speed dealer and got some info and for me atleast its good.

If its a recall they dont need oil change paperwork. If I go in before the recall then I would need all the oil changes "like I have them" from day one with my car at 30,000 miles. The service mgr told me she has a car in now with one and the guy or gal has no paperwork for oil changes and it looks like mazda is gonna fuck them.

Bottom line is if you dont have paperwork dont go in and wait until the recall is done. This poor person might end up getting screwed and they will just void any motor warranties in the future.

Bastards

[MZRDISI4]

Welll you should keep all the records for oil changes, the only problem I might have is that I'm missing a few from a dealer that closed down.. Thousand Oaks Mazda/Subaru. I'll just have to fab them up.

And it's going to be a recall?

[RUMBLEFISH]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Welll you should keep all the records for oil changes, the only problem I might have is that I'm missing a few from a dealer that closed down.. Thousand Oaks Mazda/Subaru. I'll just have to fab them up. And it's going to be a recall?

I dont mean its a recall but it looks like it may turn into one. I was basing it on the first thread that something will be coming down the pipeline on the problem.

[superskaterxes]

well PTP was right about the oil not being able to drain!!!

[Erich]

Wonder if they are redesigning the black cover on the block.

[superskaterxes]

anyone think it can be the shitty mazda PCV valve? the Cv on the valve sucks ass and i think if we raised that significantly it would def help evacuate more pressure and less oil would back up in the turbo.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes anyone think it can be the shitty mazda PCV valve? the Cv on the valve sucks ass and i think if we raised that significantly it would def help evacuate more pressure and less oil would back up in the turbo.

Could be, but the current design of the cover the pcv is in needs to be redesigned. It allows oil into the upper chamber and then it won't drain back leaving it only one place to go.

[BoostIsBetter]

I hope it's a recall, but it's almost an extremely rare case a company, especially in today's economy will do a recall unless it affects ALL stock vehicles, if not, they might make it a TSB, but I'll keep my hopes up! Thanks for the info so far.

Question though. I have all my oil reciepts, but my dealer gave me oil and a filter for free last time so I can do my own change, how do I keep a record of that, I have no receipts? Any suggestions? Do I take a picture of me doing it with that day's newspaper and a video camera showing my odometer reading!?