Official 'smoking turbo' response from Mazda

[DaleNixon]

^ I was thinking the same thing. Can anyone explain?

[djuosnteisn]

Probably not drain better, but just leak thru the seals worse.

[DaleNixon]

Wouldn't that just worsen things if our PCV system is faulty?

[GoSpeed3Go]

thicker oil = more pressure? i guess im on the waiting list for the new pcv. i have 27000 and no issues for now but recall or not, if mazda feels they need to revise a part to help the car last longer i will haz it.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon Wouldn't that just worsen things if our PCV system is faulty?

I think the pcv is gonna be faulty regardless what weight oil you use, so the thicker one will just result in less seal leakage.


In other news, mazda announced their fix, All speed owners get to choose a new turbo of their choice!

[bova]

Originally Posted by GoSpeed3Go i dont understand how using a thicker weight oil can help it drain better.

don't believe it helps it drain better, just slows the rate at which the oil enters the turbo allowing what oil is in there to drain adequately.

[jtspells]

I would personally say our best bet of a recall would be if the CX-7 owners pipe up, If we say anything the problem will allways be "it is because we are modding" or the MS6/MS3 croud are saitanic devils but if the CX-7 owners pipe up well than we might just have a recall on our hands......

[cpolly69]

I've already had a turbo from Mazda and since then I added my dp/rp and now I'm spitting oil out the tail pipe at startups and smoking at idle again - I"m wondering the garrett turbos have a nice fat stainless line that drains and hooks right up to where it goes back into the pan - Has anyone not come up with a better drain line to what I've got picd here - I know the oem one has these little steps down to the line - maybe they slow the oil down

[MZRDISI4]

Mazda issuing a recall = Safety or Emissions related.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Mazda issuing a recall = Safety or Emissions related.

You can bet burning oil can clog cats and will throw emissions sniffers for a loop during testing.

[Lex]

The reason the oil does not drain well enough is because the crankcase pressure is too high for the drain requirements from the turbo. This is an indication that the PCV system does not relieve crankcase pressure adequately for this particular turbo to work with the existing drain hardware. So this is their approach. Another approach is to increase exhaust back pressure (this is why removing the cats makes things worse), and another approach is to reduce the volume of oil entering the turbo (Bnoons bolt). There's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

[ToledoSpeed3]

Originally Posted by GoSpeed3Go i dont understand how using a thicker weight oil can help it drain better.

It doesn't, this is being done to treat the symptom, not the actual problem. Thicker oil is known to reduce burn off. The new PCV system they are working on is being done to address the actual problem.

[Trader]

Originally Posted by tunersteve .....This fix will be available approximately within 90 days and at that time the oil will be changed back to 5W-30 and the improved PCV system will be installed....

So the fix should be available 90 days after the email was issued. Any idea when this email was issued? Just trying to estimate when this will be available.

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by Trader So the fix should be available 90 days after the email was issued. Any idea when this email was issued? Just trying to estimate when this will be available.

My dealer was supposedly able to pull up this notice on the Mazda dealer web site. Perhaps I can get them to call and find out?

[tunersteve]

Here's my response from my dealer about the 'spreadsheet' that I keep for my oil changes:

Keeping it on a spreed sheet is better than nothing, but I would suggest you start writing the mileage and date on the top of the sales receipts for your oil and filter as well. But this is still no guarantee. When someone has a concern with an engine or power train component and we don't have detailed records Mazda will usually require partial tare down before they will authorize or deny a claim, such as removing a valve cover or oil pan to check for sludge or signs of lack of maintenance. We do not make the call at the dealer level. Mazda has to authorize all major claims. Just for future reference, we certainly don't have a problem using your oil if you would like us to do your maintenance for you. I have several customers we do that for. The bill comes to about $15 for labor and filter. This way you would have records with Mazda as well.

[MOVOVR]

Originally Posted by tunersteve Hey everyone, here's the email I received from my local service manager after I stopped in to question him about the 5w-40 rumors. SMOKE FROM TAIL PIPES AFTER PROLONGED IDLE PERIODS Applicable Models Model Starting S/N Ending S/N Model Spec CX7 2007-2008 000001 209008 P/D BEFORE 2/15/2008 MAZDA6 2006-2007 000001 999999 ALL MAZDASPEED6 MAZDA3 2007-2008 000001 880368 P/D BEFORE 2/6/2008 Related Category/Subcategory/Symptoms ENGINE / MECHANICAL / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / WHITE SMOKE,BLUE SMOKE ENGINE / EMISSIONS SYSTEM / BLACK SMOKE ENGINE / MECHANICAL / EXCESSIVE OIL CONSUMPTION MTOL - 5505 Dealer Repair Information Symptom and Conditions Applicable Model(s) VINS CX-7 JM3ER ****8* 209008 Produced before 2/15/08 MAZDASPEED6 ALL ALL MAZDASPEED3 JM1BK ****8* 880368 Produced before 2/6/08 Some customers may experience white/blue smoke from their exhaust pipes after prolonged idle periods and/or while driving in traffic at very slow speeds. This condition may be the result of the turbo's oil supply not being able to adequately drain out of the turbo during long idle periods. Vehicles having this concern should be diagnosed using the following diagnostics procedure. Repair Procedure 1. Confirm that the proper maintenance intervals have been performed. 2. With the engine at normal operating temperature, allow it to idle for an extended idle period. Caution: Closely monitor the engine coolant to the assure the engine does not Overheat. 3. If smoke from the exhaust is present after the extended idle period, take before pictures of the smoke, then change the oil and filter using 5W/40 (synthetic). After the oil change, in order to burn off the oil that remains in the exhaust system, perform the following: start the engine, check for oil leaks, then let it idle for 10 minutes, after the 10 minute idle period, increase the RPMs to 3000 for 1 minute, repeat idle test to confirm that no smoke returns. A: If the smoke returns, contact the Technical Assistance Hotline (Select option #2 for Major Assembly Authorization) with the oil change history information, to attain an authorization for a turbo replacement. B: If smoke DOES NOT RETURN after the repeat idle test, NO other repairs are to be performed at this time. Explain to the customer that MAZDA is currently working on an improved positive crankcase valve (PCV) system to reduce the engine crankcase pressures to allow the turbo's oil supply to drain from the turbocharger more efficiently This fix will be available approximately within 90 days and at that time the oil will be changed back to 5W-30 and the improved PCV system will be installed Sounds like something is on its way for this problem. I searched but couldn't find any info that was similar to this.

No offense to the OP but can anyone verify this came from Mazda? What dealership/local service manager did it come from and how did he/she obtain it?

[triplejumper18]

Originally Posted by MOVOVR No offense to the OP but can anyone verify this came from Mazda? What dealership/local service manager did it come from and how did he/she obtain it?

My dealer was supposedly able to pull it up on the Mazda dealer website as well.

[xandrake]

So when you go in do you need to go back to stock even when they know there is an issue with OE parts?

[BoostIsBetter]

Originally Posted by xandrake So when you go in do you need to go back to stock even when they know there is an issue with OE parts?

My best guess would be that if it's a recall, then NO, but if it's a service bulletin, then yes, any other inputs guys?

[tunersteve]

I don't think I'd take a chance with modded parts at a dealer no matter what reason you take it in.

And, as far as the validity of it, I'm merely re-posting what was sent to me. The Mazda info #s are there, so you should be able to take this to a dealer and have it reproduced in some form. I currently have someone at another local dealer trying to get confirmation of this. i too was a skeptic with all the rumors flying, until I read this.

[smakdown61]

Remember guys, if its just a TSB from Mazda they won't do anything for you unless you are showing the symptoms stated in the bulletin. Simply walking in there and demanding the new pcv even though your turbo isn't smoking will result in a "fuck off" face by your dealer.

I hope the part itself isn't too expensive if we want to do it ourselves.

[6SpeedTA95]

I was glad to see this come from Mazda but I'm still concerned about the 2.3 turbo motors in these cars. I plan(ned) on purchasing a 2009 or 2010 speed3, but after reading all the blown motor threads its kinda got me bummed as this car fit my agenda perfectly. But I've not given up yet, I'm hoping we get something from mazda shortly that addresses the cause of the problem...

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 I was glad to see this come from Mazda but I'm still concerned about the 2.3 turbo motors in these cars. I plan(ned) on purchasing a 2009 or 2010 speed3, but after reading all the blown motor threads its kinda got me bummed as this car fit my agenda perfectly. But I've not given up yet, I'm hoping we get something from mazda shortly that addresses the cause of the problem...

Hate to break it to you, but you'll see engine blow stories on any forum for any car like this. It's the nature of a forum. People don't post up thing like "my engine runs great!".

[djuosnteisn]

I'd be too scared of jinxing myself.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Remember guys, if its just a TSB from Mazda they won't do anything for you unless you are showing the symptoms stated in the bulletin. Simply walking in there and demanding the new pcv even though your turbo isn't smoking will result in a "fuck off" face by your dealer. I hope the part itself isn't too expensive if we want to do it ourselves.

very very true...

i work at a dealership and we get calls all the time from people who say "yeah i read it on the internet, so i'm coming in to get it done"....it does not work like that...

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Hate to break it to you, but you'll see engine blow stories on any forum for any car like this. It's the nature of a forum. People don't post up thing like "my engine runs great!".

That sir is an excellent point, but the number of blown motor threads and threads where mazda is denying warranty work seems abnormally high when compared with other vehicles like the VW turbo stuff...

But having said that I recall reading numerous oil burn/MAF/wheel bearing threads on the maxima forums before and after I purchased my 02. I have none of those issues, only issue I've had was a bad gas cap (twice). Other than the car has been great, burns zero oil, runs like a champ. But you read the forums and you'd swear half the cars burn a quart of oil every 1500 miles...thats just not the case.

I called my local mazda service dept and asked them how many blown 2.3's they've seen regardless of model, the service manager told me he's seen one on a pretty heavily modded speed3. I called a couple others in neighboring cities both service managers/asst managers said they ahd seen none.

[ms686]

Originally Posted by smakdown61 Hate to break it to you, but you'll see engine blow stories on any forum for any car like this. It's the nature of a forum. People don't post up thing like "my engine runs great!".

so very very very true. people with problems are far more likely to post on the internet than people that are doing great. I mean its not like 50% of us have blown engines although reading these forums you might think so.

if you worked at a dealership you would think that the brand of cars your are servicing are shitty. but in reality you are standing at the short end of the funnel. kinda like standing at the genius bar at an apple store, you would probably never buy an apple product ever; but the reality is that for every one person with a problem there are probably 50 that are doing fantastic. plus everyone drives/uses their ish differently and most seem to beat on it pretty hard. me... I dont like going WOT unless I'm trying to log or beat some punk in a riced out G35 or something

[clos561]

I asked my service rep at mazda when i had my car looked at for something different. He said that they only do this if the customer notices exhaust smoke and comes in, they arent just replacing then depending on vins. If you have a problem they fix it. Also, in the past i asked the master tech at mazda about dps, he said as long as they did the install work he would keep my warranty and replace/fix anything problems that came along with the dp swap.

[AlpineLakes]

Thanks for the great info. I recently installed Corksport RP/DP on my 8.5 MS3 and have been put on some spectacular shows in traffic leaving work recently. It's just a matter of time before I smoke an officer right out of his cruiser and get a ticket for the exhaust modifications >:/

What's the best course of action? Switch to 5W/40 synthetic and wait for Mazda?

[Addikted To Boost]

Originally Posted by AlpineLakes Thanks for the great info. I recently installed Corksport RP/DP on my 8.5 MS3 and have been put on some spectacular shows in traffic leaving work recently. It's just a matter of time before I smoke an officer right out of his cruiser and get a ticket for the exhaust modifications >:/ What's the best course of action? Switch to 5W/40 synthetic and wait for Mazda?

u need to buy a bnoon bolt asap. http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...nce-all-4.html

Do it now

[RUMBLEFISH]

Originally Posted by AlpineLakes Thanks for the great info. I recently installed Corksport RP/DP on my 8.5 MS3 and have been put on some spectacular shows in traffic leaving work recently. It's just a matter of time before I smoke an officer right out of his cruiser and get a ticket for the exhaust modifications >:/ What's the best course of action? Switch to 5W/40 synthetic and wait for Mazda?

My dealer said the car better be factory stock and have all oil change paperwork or get the fuck out of my shop.

So I left.

[Poohster]

Originally Posted by AlpineLakes Thanks for the great info. I recently installed Corksport RP/DP on my 8.5 MS3 and have been put on some spectacular shows in traffic leaving work recently. It's just a matter of time before I smoke an officer right out of his cruiser and get a ticket for the exhaust modifications >:/ What's the best course of action? Switch to 5W/40 synthetic and wait for Mazda?

I have a catted DP on MS6 with a MPI upgraded K04. I get smoke every now and then. MPI stated that the upgraded K04 may still smoke. I do use 5W40 and may try 5W50. The 5W40 did stop my OE k04 from smoking but just like you the DP push me over the edge.

I say give the 5W40 a try. I find the bnoon banjo bolt intriguing but fearful of starving a wet seal of oil. bnoon has done his homework and feels there is an adequate supply of oil. I am going to wait for Mazda's improved positive PCV system and get the parts to install myself or have MPI do it or possibly investigate alternatives. Good luck.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by Poohster I find the bnoon banjo bolt intriguing but fearful of starving a wet seal of oil. bnoon has done his homework and feels there is an adequate supply of oil.

Just FYI, my info comes from G-Pop Shop, one of the few reputable rebuilders/modifiers of KKK turbos. They gave me the recommended restrictor size and believe enough in my idea that they are sending any restrictor inquiries for the K04 my direction!!!

[AlpineLakes]

Thanks. Sure you MSP gets in the left lane and gets us the updated valve like yesterday!

[AlpineLakes]

Could this problem be exacerbated by an incorrectly adjusted BPV? I note my BPV is venting even under low boost conditions and wonder if change might be a factor?

I'm learning up here so forgive a likely dumb question. Thanks.

[Dino V]

nice write-up! thanks for sharing!

[GoSpeed3Go]

anyone hear if mazdas put out the new pcv yet? i wonder if the 2010 ms3 already has it equipped.

[Babyface]

subbing for info

[DaleNixon]

Not to sound like a dick, dude, but you should use the thread tools->subscribe to thread feature instead of posting "subbing". It'll save you from public ridicule.

[tunersteve]

Haven't heard anything on updates yet. I figure I'll wait for another month or two before I try to get it fixed.