Pill size and Acuator Spring Pressure

[cpolly69]

I'm curious what exactly was done in order to verify that Smitty was at exactly wg spring pressure at the time of the tune as a baseline without boost control. It's a dual port actuator, so from factory the solenoid controls the bleed off that is not needed to make the actuator work. So what exactly did you guys do? Did you cap the compressor housing and both actuator ports? I'm just curious about exactly what was done to perform this test? Sorry if it's already been stated and I didn't see it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 To: smitty5788' Dude, please just get your money back and buy the AP. At least then you KNOW WTF is going on and have the capability to update/change the ECU in your hand. You will NOT get satisfaction from John@TheShopCT from this thread. Spikes are VERY common at first throttle poke with the OEM BCS when raising the boost above OEM levels. They CAN be tuned out for the most part without additional hardware changes, UNLESS you do indeed have a hardware malfunction. The OEM BCS is a pretty weak solenoid IMO, as mine malfunctioned and would cause both low boost and spikes. IMO you should ditch the OEM BCS and go with aftermarket EBCS (either bleed or interrupt) for more consistent boost control.... Get the AP/ATR and then "we" can actually help you. Otherwise you're just SOL.

No doubt ... that is the plan. I want this tune off the car, and my money back. Ill even buy the damn AP from John, he already has my money.

John, thats all I want, Im not happy with the results or your service to your customer. I sent you a PM and will be more than happy to settle this via that route if you would like me to. Both of the options I gave you involves me erasing your tune so that no one can take it and have another situation like before.

Also, the BCS was tested by checking the resistance and was compared to a wroking BCS, so it should be good.

Originally Posted by cpolly69 I'm curious what exactly was done in order to verify that Smitty was at exactly wg spring pressure at the time of the tune as a baseline without boost control. It's a dual port actuator, so from factory the solenoid controls the bleed off that is not needed to make the actuator work. So what exactly did you guys do? Did you cap the compressor housing and both actuator ports? I'm just curious about exactly what was done to perform this test? Sorry if it's already been stated and I didn't see it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To test, Scott and I ran the same test John asked us to. We capped the line from the Actuator to the BCS. The log shows NO spike like John says, it shows that the boost hits about 12lb, like scott mentioned in the first post, the actuator doesnt move any significant amount until about then anyway. It then slowly climbs to 17 and falls off. I can promise that isnt an 8lb spring in the actuator.

Mechanically the car is 100% ... thats the bottom line.

[djuosnteisn]

*edit to be nice lol...
GL with the next tuner....

[tbot]

Jesus Christ, John just change the fucking tune already!!! It isn't that god damn hard to tune out a boost spike. If I can do it and not know a damn thing about it, then a "pro" as yourself should be able to, with NO hardware changes. I had stock everything that involved boost control and ran just fine, as numerousness other people have stated. Quit trying to be a jew and take care of this guy the way he wants, and honestly the way I think the rest of us want, to be done.

[gtarman77787]

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...tml#post639141

there

[smitty5788]

Thats all im saying John, if you can fix it do it, if you cant no harm done refund and Ill flash it back and go on my way to another solution.

We have proven the car is fine, it doesnt spike on the stock tune, and my setup can be tuned and has been before with no drilling of the pill.

[smitty5788]

Still nothing? ... Anything John, PM post here or send me a text or email.

[smitty5788]

Still Waiting

[Nataphen]

Still hasn't gotten back? John, you need to get going, this isn't good press. I know that you've been on since 12-3.

I'll make no bones about it, I don't personally like John, I think that most everyone here knows that. I have, however, continued to steer people his way because he has always seemed to have very happy customers. Everyone has always talked about how meticulous he is about his tunes, and how he "killed them with kindness".

So where's that awesome customer service, John? Believe it or not, despite our differences, I've tried to praise you, not bury you. Being a mod isn't about personal vendettas for me, I just want the members here to be treated fairly.

I know that you know how to treat people, so let the man know what's up.

[tbot]

i've come to the conclusion that John isn't going to do anything more than tell him to drill out the pill. imho thats kinda shitty and lazy. but hopefully they get this worked out.

[Nataphen]

Well, that's fine if he wants to be that way, though it doesn't seem like something that John would do. I will not recommend anyone to him until this is resolved to smitty's satisfaction because I don't think that he's being unreasonable. I don't know if that will hurt John's business at all, but I can tell you that I have a lot of gen 2 guys PM me about where to turn for a tuning.

[hnda etr]

Feels like another vendor ban coming up...

Just sayin'...

[tbot]

I agree Nataphen, I think it should be to smitty's satisfaction, but since he wants his money back, or some sort of deal for an AP when it supports the Gen 2 platform its not what John wants so he's trying to avoid it.

Regardless of the reasoning, its not getting taken care of. I think until then something should be done, cause I keep seeing threads about going to John for tunes.

[06Speed6]

Honestly John is right to a degree, it is a hardware problem not a tuner problem. The problem is that it is a cop out because he doesnt want to return the TB related tables back to stock because it drasticly hurts the dyno numbers which also makes him look bad.

I have a intake and a 3" catless turboback and I get spikes running straight wg spring pressure and I get slightly smaller spikes with a completely drilled out restrictor and a grimmspeed in interrupt mode.

The bottom line is that when the TB is opened up on a engine that has also been opened up, the stock turbo spools so quickly that the system cannot react fast enough to keep it from spiking. Short of a larger turbo or closing the tb back down to stock levels the spike cannot be controlled.

Additionally the stock wg actuator tends to get blown open in the higher rpm & load ranges and really needs to be thrown in the trash and be replaced with something that can hold the wg where the ecu thinks it is.

[JTMS3]

My turn.... I am the dude from Chicago John was referring to. Unfortunately I can't log because I am not one for spending another $300+ just to find out that the tune I have in my car is causing spikes. Not to mention my MPG is equal to driving around a hummer. Before the tune my car ran fine... currently, not so much but I will say the CEL is gone after installing the SRI. Not sure if it just burned out or the ECU adjusted to the airflow better than the CAI I had installed. Either way, I am like Smitty... not looking to be a PITA, just want my tune fixed. If it can't be done then I would be willing to get the AP through John (instead of asking for my money back). Either way, this is going on now for longer than was originally promised and have been waiting on a cable now for 3 plus weeks.

[06Speed6]

Yeah he does need to take care of you guys.

[jhershorin]

I wonder how many others are out there like this. Vendors often "threaten" people to be silent or they wont help them.

[JTMS3]

I will be a happy man when it's resolved either way. I didn't think John was a bad guy at all. I would just like a commitment held, he would send me the cable and hopefully whatever else is needed to log and flash the ECU again... or let's discuss how to resolve this via refund or NEW AP.

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Honestly John is right to a degree, it is a hardware problem not a tuner problem. The problem is that it is a cop out because he doesnt want to return the TB related tables back to stock because it drasticly hurts the dyno numbers which also makes him look bad. I have a intake and a 3" catless turboback and I get spikes running straight wg spring pressure and I get slightly smaller spikes with a completely drilled out restrictor and a grimmspeed in interrupt mode. The bottom line is that when the TB is opened up on a engine that has also been opened up, the stock turbo spools so quickly that the system cannot react fast enough to keep it from spiking. Short of a larger turbo or closing the tb back down to stock levels the spike cannot be controlled. Additionally the stock wg actuator tends to get blown open in the higher rpm & load ranges and really needs to be thrown in the trash and be replaced with something that can hold the wg where the ecu thinks it is.

Please explain to me how this is a hardware problem? I have logs posted above ... same parts on the car in both the pre and post tune logs.

Do you see a spike in the logs on the stock tune? No. Do I hear what your saying about the TB, ya but as I have said there are a ton of people with the same if not more mods than myself who havent even thought of touching the pill. Not to mention, my main point is the stock tune controled to boost just fine and the stock system is capable of that.

I truly would like to see logs of his tunes on other cars, but a lot of Gen2 owners have no way to log like JTMS3 because there isnt much out there for us.

At this point, besides the tune its more frustrating to me to have him ignore me like a child. What kind of customer service is that?

I am not asking anything unreasonable. I asked him to take the time to fix the tune. If he cant I want to flash back to stock and get my money back or I will let him keep the money and sell me an AP and let me flash back to stock. I am not happy with his service, that is all. As far as Im concerned if a customer is not happy a vendor should make them happy and Im not asking him to go out of his way, Im giving him the easy way out to just refund or send me an AP, no aditional work on his part. Hell we have vendors on here (Mark) who would bend over backwards to make customers happy.

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 I truly would like to see logs of his tunes on other cars, but a lot of Gen2 owners have no way to log like JTMS3 because there isnt much out there for us. At this point, besides the tune its more frustrating to me to have him ignore me like a child. What kind of customer service is that? I am not asking anything unreasonable. I asked him to take the time to fix the tune. If he cant I want to flash back to stock and get my money back or I will let him keep the money and sell me an AP and let me flash back to stock. I am not happy with his service, that is all. As far as Im concerned if a customer is not happy a vendor should make them happy and Im not asking him to go out of his way, Im giving him the easy way out to just refund or send me an AP, no aditional work on his part. Hell we have vendors on here (Mark) who would bend over backwards to make customers happy.

Smitty has a point there, many gen2's are tuned by John, but very very few of them have bothered to get a Dashdaq or some other device to log what their car is doing on John's tune. Half or more of them could possibly spiking like smitty, yet are completely unaware as they are unable to see it.

John still hasn't replied to your pm's smitty?

[smitty5788]

nope, last PM about this issue from John was 11/30, obviously the last post was 12/3

[ccspeedsix]

this isnt good for rep purposes. but tuner needs to at least respond. If he doesnt any time soon, mods need to get in on this as he is a vendor.

subbed. Hope you fellas get this shit worked out.

[essejkcamraw]

Originally Posted by JTMS3 I will be a happy man when it's resolved either way. I didn't think John was a bad guy at all. I would just like a commitment held, he would send me the cable and hopefully whatever else is needed to log and flash the ECU again... or let's discuss how to resolve this via refund or NEW AP.

WOW i just found this thread and it's just full of shittiness.

you will find that all of the SHADIEST people in this world (and industry) come off as completely nice normal good to deal with guy's. (raceroots scott)

this sounds EXACTLY like the problem with the raceroots dyno day fiasco, dude had no idea what he was doing. put a shitty tune on two cars (both of which fucked up) one being mine and ended in complete failure.

this is completely unacceptable! i've been burned (fucked) this way an when push came to shove i said i want a refund. he wanted me to drop my car off with him for a day (which turned into two) to mess with my tune and when i got it back my ecu was supposed to be flashed back to a safer tune and the ensuing result was this thread here RR tuner fail


as i post this i see that john@theshop is online. but not posting up, very sketchy. GL with this smitty hopefully you dont get shafted like i did and can get this sorted out!

[smitty5788]

your on right now john ... lets go ... PM is fine if you want to do it that way.

[djuosnteisn]

I agree at this point... it's taking him way too long to deal with this issue. While i do disagree about the acceptability of drilling the pill as a solution, i don't agree with leaving an unhappy customer hanging.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by smitty5788 Please explain to me how this is a hardware problem? I have logs posted above ... same parts on the car in both the pre and post tune logs. Do you see a spike in the logs on the stock tune? No. Do I hear what your saying about the TB, ya but as I have said there are a ton of people with the same if not more mods than myself who havent even thought of touching the pill. [B]Not to mention, my main point is the stock tune controled to boost just fine and the stock system is capable of that.[/B]

Thats the problem is your logic, the stock tune does (kinda) control boost just fine on the stock system. The problem is that your system isnt stock and your tune isnt stock and the stock hardware cant control it anymore.

I still think he should either refund you or offer to detune your car to near stock levels. Thats not too much to ask imo.

[tbot]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Thats the problem is your logic, the stock tune does (kinda) control boost just fine on the stock system. The problem is that your system isnt stock and your tune isnt stock and the stock hardware cant control it anymore. I still think he should either refund you or offer to detune your car to near stock levels. Thats not too much to ask imo.

I think he was saying that with his mods the stock tune worked for controlling boost. I do agree to an extent tho that with the mods and up'ing the boost via a tune, it makes it more difficult for the stock hardware to control boost.

At the same time tho, via the AP, and the SB I was able to tune out all spike on my setup with similar if not more mods and run 18-20 psi. And I didn't have to drill out any pill's.

[Amazon]

06speed,

The stock tune handled his modded stock car just fine. Enter in John's tune into the equation and he starts getting boost spikes. What I'm fairly certain smitty is saying is that when he was modded on the stock tune, he didn't have spiking issues, but once John tuned him, he did.

Edit: dammit tbot lol

[tbot]

haha sorry amazon...u under estimate my sneakiness

[jhershorin]

With more boost coming in at quick speeds the system does have to work harder and will spike like 06speed6 is saying. HOWEVER it is not impossible to control it with little to no spike at higher boost levels and mod levels. Just takes a little more effort and time. I have to admit that this wasn't what I expected John to be screwed over but this is pretty pathetic. His customer service here seems to be much like his ability to support his "arguements" - lackluster and laughable at most.

[Amazon]

+1

I was expecting him to blow someone's motor, not something as lame as this.

tbot, your sneakiness has been noted

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by tbot I think he was saying that with his mods the stock tune worked for controlling boost. I do agree to an extent tho that with the mods and up'ing the boost via a tune, it makes it more difficult for the stock hardware to control boost. At the same time tho, via the AP, and the SB I was able to tune out all spike on my setup with similar if not more mods and run 18-20 psi. And I didn't have to drill out any pill's.

The SB itself doesnt have full throttle control, I dont think the stock boost control hardware can fully control spikes when the TB is fully opened and the user has a catless turboback and aftermarket intake.

I could be wrong though.

Regardless his customer service seems to be at least as good as Jakes, maybe better! Im gonna start recommending him.

[smitty5788]

Originally Posted by tbot I think he was saying that with his mods the stock tune worked for controlling boost. I do agree to an extent tho that with the mods and up'ing the boost via a tune, it makes it more difficult for the stock hardware to control boost. At the same time tho, via the AP, and the SB I was able to tune out all spike on my setup with similar if not more mods and run 18-20 psi. And I didn't have to drill out any pill's.

Originally Posted by Amazon 06speed, The stock tune handled his modded stock car just fine. Enter in John's tune into the equation and he starts getting boost spikes. What I'm fairly certain smitty is saying is that when he was modded on the stock tune, he didn't have spiking issues, but once John tuned him, he did. Edit: dammit tbot lol

This is exactly what I am and have been saying. It can be done but John's approach was to say fuck it and go the easy route for him. While on my end I have to pull the turbo to get access to the pill to make his tune work.

This is after doing every other test he asked and spending a day at SilverDemons house going over everything and taking logs.

Same mods his tune doesn’t work, Mazda’s did. Not to mention, I have no idea what he did to the car, he won’t even reply when I ask what boost he is targeting or anything. Last he told me in the he was basically running stock boost, well as you can see in the logs I’m not, and it looks like shit compared to the stock tune.

Originally Posted by Amazon +1 I was expecting him to blow someone's motor, not something as lame as this. tbot, your sneakiness has been noted

Knock on some wood with that comment, its pretty cold here lol

[06Speed6]

I drilled out my pill and only pulled the turbo inlet =) Took about 15 mins... Flex shaft ratchet screwdrivers ftw.

[Amazon]

Hey John, where you at?



Nagga is still having internet issues btw, so it might be awhile before you'll hear from him

[tbot]

Yeah but he has his phone...half his posts are from that fuckin droid he's got

[smitty5788]

John, here is the deal since you are online right now.

I am done dealing with you, once you can man up ... send me a PM we will arrange how I’m flashing back to stock and I will send you my PayPal info so you can send me $600.

I don’t want you to fix it, you obviously don’t have the ability and I don’t want to deal with this service. I also don’t want an AP from you, I will get it elsewhere because I am done doing business with you.

I think at this point if you want to save your reputation on here which until this and the problem you had with me and JTMS3 was pretty good you will do this and make a customer satisfied

[09Speed3Z]

Good read. Shitty Vendor........video will ensue

YouTube - Family Guy Where's My Money Part 1

YouTube - Family Guy Where's My Money Part 1

[Amazon]

Originally Posted by tbot Yeah but he has his phone...half his posts are from that fuckin droid he's got

And most of those posts consist of "ROFL", "LOL", and "HA". There's no reason why he shouldn't have seen the thread either, it keeps getting bumped, not to mention smitty's pm's to him.

[smitty5788]

Oh I know he is aware of the thread, I have PMed him and sent him a couple texts over the past week and a half with nothing back.