Poor man's 3 Port EBCS

[TiGraySpeed6]

Poor man's 3 Port EBCS

All told, I have about $50 in this project, and have an excellent 3 port EBCS.
This can also be run in 2 port mode as a direct replacement for the stock controller

It's been widely argued that both the Cobb and the GrimnSpeed controllers are just a relabeled MAC solenoid. Spending just a few minutes in Google provides a MAC part number and many many refernces to effective solutions and names or sources like Denso, Grainger and Ingersol Rand & GM appear often.

Below I've outlined the parts I used, some of the reference materials I drew from, and some random thoughts to help put the pieces together should you choose to go this route. There are other solenoids out there that perform the same function, some perhaps better than this design. This is just the route I took, feel free to explore alternatives!

Please note- while this is less expensive in terms of dollars spent, it is more expensive in terms of time and effort. One of the best things you get when you spend full price for a Cobb/GrimmSpeed/Perrin is the support and engineering that they put into their product. Nice touched like being able to plug into the connector rather than hard wiring. Sure this post will cost less money, but trust me, you will pay for it in other ways, some people more perhaps than others. If you aren't comfortable planning this kind of a project out, and handling the extra steps involved, then save yourself the torture and just get the retail part! This is at your own risk!

And, as always, with a 3 Port, you must make corrections to your tune!

If you're not scared off yet, then let's get to it!

Reading Material-
Stratified EBCS Connections
Cobb EBCS
Grimspeed EBCS



Parts-
MAC solenoid Model# 35A-AAA-DDBA-1BA
--> Cost can range from ~$17 directly from a MAC distributor to ~$30-35 from ebay & various others






Vac Line fittings (various depending on install)
--> Fancy 90* nickle plated like Cobb uses:
------> Pneumadyne Inc. Part# ELB30-1/8-5
If you compare specs, these things have a great flow rating, much better than the basic brass fittings from your local hardware store.
They can be purchased individually from a variety of sources by searching the part number, here's one-
$5.44 each - Male 90 Elbow by PNEUMADYNE INC - Brass Pipe Fittings by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

They can be had for much less, but in bulk only, from Pneumadyne directly
$44.25 for pack of 25 ($1.77 ea) 1/8 NPT Thread to Barb Elbow Fittings - Pneumadyne, Inc.

You can upgrade to 1/4" fittings from the 1/8" fittingg for more airflow. This is the same fitting Cobb offers with their upgrade kit.
Part number is ELB60-1/8
Individually, $5.44 each - Male 90 Elbow by PNEUMADYNE INC - Brass Pipe Fittings by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

Feel free to source the basic brass 90* fittings from the local parts store, but you won't be nearly as cool....






Mounting Bracket-
- You can mount this thing however you want, I happen to think the factory mount is a great spot.
1.5 inch of 1x1 aluminum angle, or anything similar
stock lengths available from local hardware store, typically for under $5.
I just used what was in my garage already. Since you only need a very short piece you could very likely have it as scrap already in your garage, or even a trash piece from the local machine shop.
- - - When I switched to a BNR S3 the stock mounting location went away. There are many different ways to mount this thing, the location I used on the Speed6 was the stock TIP mount by the HPFP and battery. I've got a pic in a post further down, and it works perfect with the bracket described here.

Nuts & bolts for mounting-
2 small diameter 1" screws, washers & lock nuts to mount solenoid to bracket
1 bolt, washer & lock nut to mount bracket to turbo housing replacing stock EBCS.
Stainless is suggested but not required
As with the mounting bracket, I just used what was in my garage already, but these can be sourced from the local hardware store for under $5
**You really want to use lock nuts for this application, or blue locktite. You don't want this getting loose...

Connection-
I was simply unable to source the correct plug to mate with the factory plug. I'm sure they're out there, but for a one-off it just wasn't worth the amount of time I was dedicating to the cause. I considered using Deutsch connectors, which are great, but in the end I just hardwired it. I encourage soldering and using heat shrink. Don't be a dweeb here, you want a seriously good connection.

--> UPDATE ON THE CONNECTOR!! This can be a truly plug and play alternative! A most excellent find and, at only $8.00, downright cheap as well!

Home » Shop » Connectors / Harnesses » Tyco / AMP » 2 - Way Receptacle Connector Pigtail

OEM ECBS Pigtail (CONN-85730)

Soldering this to the MAC EBCS wires will allow you to keep the stock plug on the factory wiring harness. No worries about polarity, just be sure they are well connected and use heat shrink- you want a good connection, and well protected!


Also-
I followed the install that Cobb endorses- I pulled the boost source from the IM line which feeds the BPV. Since I had already tapped that line once for my mechanical boost gauge I took this opportunity to clean things up and installed a vacuum distribution block. This allowed dedicated lines for everything and cleaned things up nicely.

-->UPDATE #2- I have since moved the boost source closer to the turbo. Initially it was moved using an ATP Boost Tap to the silicone pipe off the turbo, and now that I've gone BNR S3 it's using the tap on the turbo itself. I moved it because having the boost gauge and the EBCS on the same circuit was making the gauge needle bounce at high boost levels. Just separating them corrected the issue.

While I was at it, this was a good time to replace a bunch of the old vac lines. You might want to pick up several feet of new line, silicone is the nice stuff.








Install prep work-
- Drill the three holes on the mounting bracket, 2 small holes to mount solenoid to the bracket & 1 large hole for attaching the bracket to the turbo.
- Mount the vac fittings to the solenoid. Be sure to use either teflon tape or sufficient quantity of blue locktite to seal things up properly. Be sure to end up with the 90* fittings pointing up.
- Mount the solenoid on the bracket.
- plan your vacuum hose routing in advance. Plan it again. Do you need/want a distribution block?

Here we go!
- Much of this process is outlined in the pdf files linked above
- Remove battery, intake and TIH so you have plenty of room to work
- Disconnect EGR connection for extra room ( I also elected to leave mine disconnected, it's blocked off anyway)
- Disconnect OEM EBCS wiring connector
- Remove hoses from OEM EBCS- I was replacing all these vac lines so I just cut them to make life easy.
- Remove OEM EBCS from turbo mount and set aside.
- Complete removal of vac lines from TIH and from lower port of wastegate to turbo.
- Cap the lower wastegate & turbo fittings
- Mount the new MAC EBCS to the turbo
- Measure & cut vac lines
- Intall vac lines
- Cut OEM EBCS plug from factory wires (do not cut if using proper connector on the EBCS!!!)
- Trim MAC solenoid wires to appropriate length, place heat shrink on wires then solder to oem leads & shrink wrap. No polarity to worry about.

Remember to load your map with the tweaked WGDC, then go for a test drive. Remember you've just made a pretty major change to your boost control system, so it might take a few revisions to get your WGDC just right. As always, start conservative and walk it back up to target.

[Fatguy729]

Nice! Would be cool if we could find the factory harness

[Lex]

Can you do a quick check for me and check the resistance of the solenoid with a multimeter? How close is it to the spec of 27 ohms?

[TiGraySpeed6]

@Lex - I'll see if I can get the number tomorrow, Monday. If it helps, I was very surprised at how small the changes to my wgdc ended up, +/-15 %

[kritz]

I have one of these and also sent one to Fink, I will be installing it on Monday. I'll let you know my results, the Humphrey solenoid I have has a resistance of 37.3 ohms.

[TiGraySpeed6]

BTW, @Lex - thanks for the motivation to get the leads soldered permanent, getting rid of my temporary, "test to be sure it really worked" connections. I'd already let that go a week longer than intended....

So, disconnected so I was taking the reading from the solenoid only, not whatever else is on that path. Resistance starts at 27 even, settles to 26.8 within 10 seconds and stays there.

Hope that helps!


.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by kritz I have one of these and also sent one to Fink, I will be installing it on Monday. I'll let you know my results, the Humphrey solenoid I have has a resistance of 37.3 ohms.

I have a big box of these

[forcedinduktion]

Nice write up dude!

[kritz]

Originally Posted by Lex I have a big box of these

Have you tried them out, if so what were your results?

[TiGraySpeed6]

FWIW, my stocker reads 25

[TiGraySpeed6]

some additional pics-
the screws to attach the solenoid to the mounting bracket, 1" 6/32 thick head phillips head,washer & lock nut, and the mount bracket showing the 1" screws in action

[TiGraySpeed6]

Two worthwhile updates to this-

First, @DSIT995; has located the plug so this can be a truly plug and play alternative! A most excellent find and, at only $8.00, downright cheap as well! The OP has been updated to include this new information!

Home » Shop » Connectors / Harnesses » Tyco / AMP » 2 - Way Receptacle Connector Pigtail

OEM ECBS Pigtail (CONN-85730)

Soldering this to the MAC EBCS wires will allow you to keep the stock plug on the factory wiring harness. No worries about polarity, just be sure they are well connected and use heat shrink- you want a good connection, and well protected!


Second update is on mounting location. I recently swapped over to a BNR Stage3, so I had to relocate the MAC 3 Port. I found that the stock TIP Mount by the HPFP was a great location and worked perfect with the same mount I was using on the stock location.

[maisonvi]

This is awesome. I have all the hose and connectors free from work, so I might just have to do this. Thanks!

[beachshoer]

Originally Posted by Lex I have a big box of these

So what your saying is, I'm running one of these with your sticker on it?

No worries buddy. I don't mind paying a few extra bucks to make it plug and play.

And the stickers nice.

[jack_hammer]

i did not see this thread when you first posted it. regardless, very nicely done!

[kritz]

Originally Posted by beachshoer So what your saying is, I'm running one of these with your sticker on it? No worries buddy. I don't mind paying a few extra bucks to make it plug and play. And the stickers nice.

I think he was referring to my post "Humphrey solenoid" BTW mine works quite nicely too.

[TiGraySpeed6]

lolz

IIRC, @Lex; isn't using a MAC solenoid either, he's got a spiffy one with the ports on the sides, 2 on one side and 1 on the other.

A layout I particularly like, FWIW....

Also, seriously worth noting that if you spend the money, you get the support!!

[beachshoer]

Originally Posted by kritz I think he was referring to my post "Humphrey solenoid" BTW mine works quite nicely too.

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 lolz IIRC, @Lex; isn't using a MAC solenoid either, he's got a spiffy one with the ports on the sides, 2 on one side and 1 on the other. A layout I particularly like, FWIW.... Also, seriously worth noting that if you spend the money, you get the support!!

I know I know! I keed!!!

The supports been great and totally worth it.

[Lex]

I wasn't a fan of the MAC solenoids although a lot of the other companies run them. Also consider barbs that are larger rather than smaller - the COBB and GS use tiny barbs and most WG barbs are significantly larger.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Lex I wasn't a fan of the MAC solenoids although a lot of the other companies run them. Also consider barbs that are larger rather than smaller - the COBB and GS use tiny barbs and most WG barbs are significantly larger.

1st thing I did was replace all the barbs on my GS...disaster waiting to happen with the baby barbs. I have a lifetime supply of 4mm barbs I got from McMaster for like $10...lol

[DSIT995]

Thanks for adding the link of the pigtail to you How-To TiGraySpeed6...

A pic of the pigtail next to the grimmspeed pigtail:

[TiGraySpeed6]

Yeah, larger fittings are better. Even cobb sells an "upgrade" kit with the larger nickel plated units.

I'm going to upgrade mine with the larger Pneumadyne ones sometime this spring.

[beachshoer]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Yeah, larger fittings are better. Even cobb sells an "upgrade" kit with the larger nickel plated units. I'm going to upgrade mine with the larger Pneumadyne ones sometime this spring.

Have you not been outside? Its spring down here. You've already done the turbo, what's a couple fittings?

[TiGraySpeed6]

lolz- not weather, rather more of a time line thing...

so many projects, so little time

[DSIT995]

Installed my MAC 3-Port(stock location) a couple days ago and finally got a chance to do some testing and so far @ PT Im overboosting.. hitting 5-6lpsi at 30% throttle. Working now on getting some logs and lowering WGDC & Error Comps now..

Car feels a little "off", running a lil rough in boost and sounds different(air induction doesnt sound as smooth) as well.. Going to pull the battery and double check connections before I start tuning around a leak as well..

[Mizzle]

Does this interest anyone for $47?

EBC Electronic Boost Control Solenoid Kit DIYAutoTune.com

[Lex]

Originally Posted by DSIT995 Installed my MAC 3-Port(stock location) a couple days ago and finally got a chance to do some testing and so far @ PT Im overboosting.. hitting 5-6lpsi at 30% throttle. Working now on getting some logs and lowering WGDC & Error Comps now.. Car feels a little "off", running a lil rough in boost and sounds different(air induction doesnt sound as smooth) as well.. Going to pull the battery and double check connections before I start tuning around a leak as well..

Are you using it in 3 port or 2 port?

[TiGraySpeed6]

Do be sure to make reductions in WGDC when switching from stock 2 port bleed to 3 port interrupt! 3 Port will definitely overboost on wgdc settings used for 2 port


That other kit is a nice Ingersol Rand solenoid, but only comes with the parts needed to run in two port mode. Lots of folks are starting to play with two port again, so not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Do be sure to make reductions in WGDC when switching from stock 2 port bleed to 3 port interrupt! 3 Port will definitely overboost on wgdc settings used for 2 port That other kit is a nice Ingersol Rand solenoid, but only comes with the parts needed to run in two port mode. Lots of folks are starting to play with two port again, so not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out.

DIY kits are well ... DIY and very barebones in general.

[TiGraySpeed6]

lolz- don't I know it

Gott be honest, if I was to do this all over again, I'd just get yours Lex, and combine it with your boost dial and call it a day. Just easier all around.

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by Lex Are you using it in 3 port or 2 port?

3 port.. My initial map was using about 40% of the original values I had in the tables.. I wasnt using the same table from the oem EBCS.. lol I prolly would have hit 25psi @ 3000rpms..

I still think my lower RPM values are a little high and Im also not use to how much faster the boost comes on Vs oem setup..

need to make some more tweaks for sure..

[Boosted Beluga]

What do I want to change on the fittings in the op? Pipe size or tube size? I have the grimmspeed ebcs. Thank you

[TiGraySpeed6]

AFAIK the grimmspeed, heck, all of em, have 1/8 inch NPT fittings.

Why you changing the fittings on your GS?

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by kritz I have one of these and also sent one to Fink, I will be installing it on Monday. I'll let you know my results, the Humphrey solenoid I have has a resistance of 37.3 ohms.

I was wondering why The Humphrey solenoids were not more popular for this application since they have a lower dwell time, use less energy than the mac solenoids, and are capable of 40+ CPS on a paintball marker.

[kritz]

Love the solenoid, responds great it is great for this application. I have had mine in for a few weeks now works nicely with a tune from Mr. @rfinkle2;

[Boosted Beluga]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 AFAIK the grimmspeed, heck, all of em, have 1/8 inch NPT fittings. Why you changing the fittings on your GS?

To bigger ones

[TiGraySpeed6]

Cheat, and just order the kit from Cobb

COBB Tuning - EBCS 1/4" EWG Fitting Kit

[Lex]

Originally Posted by DSIT995 3 port.. My initial map was using about 40% of the original values I had in the tables.. I wasnt using the same table from the oem EBCS.. lol I prolly would have hit 25psi @ 3000rpms.. I still think my lower RPM values are a little high and Im also not use to how much faster the boost comes on Vs oem setup.. need to make some more tweaks for sure..

You need to adjust the LEC and BEC tables not just WGDC.

My EBCV comes with 1/4" barbs - not sure why those guys all went with such small barbs. Also not to toot my own horn here but zap straps are kinda lame for clamping hoses and are prone to causing boost hoses to come off at the wrong time. Better get clamps like I offer or worm clamps

[kritz]

Smaller diameter tubing will actually decrease the response time to actuate the IWG.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by kritz Smaller diameter tubing will actually decrease the response time to actuate the IWG.

FWIW, when we / you did yours we ended up using 4mm ID tubing.

I am in love with Turbosmart's silicone tubing.