Race Roots Manifold and Complete Turbosystem

[all4bspinnin]

Also, im not a big fan of FMIC's ...any plans to make a pipe to connect to a big tmic?

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by all4bspinnin Also, im not a big fan of FMIC's ...any plans to make a pipe to connect to a big tmic?

We can do that as well!

[spiker98]

That means the manifold is..??.. carry the 2...

[IshiKage]

Mark...let me know when you get that thing installed man, i want to check it out afterwards

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by spiker98 That means the manifold is..??.. carry the 2...

Intro Pricing will be for just the manifold will be determined here shortly. If we are doing them one at a time it is $975, and we can have them turned around in a week.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Race Roots So on that note if anyone is interested in buying the kit and just cannot afford the one payment at once we can arrange a payment plan once the unit is paid in full we will ship the kit. We do everything from bi-weekly payments to monthly payments, but please understand that we are not a bank or a creditor and will not be shipping the kit out until full payment is received.

Layaway FTWOfThePoor

[Scatt Nasty]

This manifold is gorgeous.
I'm assuming there won't be fitment issues.

Not to be Debbie Downer but this still doesn't tell me why a 35R is only yielding 350whp

I understand bills need to be paid and you guys are in it to make money like everyone else.
I just wish your obvious skills could be put towards some R&D as to why a built motor, with a big turbo, AND nitrous only yields low 400's.

Not to mention the ONLY person to do such a feat is a private member rigging up his own shit. (GJ Socks)

From a consumer point of view, at the moment I would opt for a cheaper manifold. Why ? Because a cheaper manifold will still net me the 350whp cap and keep a few hundred extra dollars in my pocket.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty This manifold is gorgeous. I'm assuming there won't be fitment issues. Not to be Debbie Downer but this still doesn't tell me why a 35R is only yielding 350whp I understand bills need to be paid and you guys are in it to make money like everyone else. I just wish your obvious skills could be put towards some R&D as to why a built motor, with a big turbo, AND nitrous only yields low 400's. Not to mention the ONLY person to do such a feat is a private member rigging up his own shit. (GJ Socks) From a consumer point of view, at the moment I would opt for a cheaper manifold. Why ? Because a cheaper manifold will still net me the 350whp cap and keep a few hundred extra dollars in my pocket.

Scatt I actually agree with you to a certain extent.

With our team and 25 plus years of designing and engineering experiences with various race teams, extensive product development and constant state of improvement we are coming in with a fresh view.

We already have more products that we are going to be releasing that are going to be addressing various issues and other upgrades that have been overlooked with the car.

Why haven't we released it?

Because we vigorously test our products to ensure quality and value, R&D takes time and we like perfection as you can see from our work so far.

As for buying crap products and poorly designed items I disagree with you.

With our experiences a weak link in a turbo system in total design looking at everything from the intake to manifold and downpipe the littlest oversight or incorrectly designed part can cost you 30 whp (so to speak for example) This compounds itself when you slap a bunch of parts together and expect big numbers but don't address all issues such as fuel, ignition, proper flow, tuning and get disappointed when you don't have all your ducks in a row.

Scatt give us a chance to get everything out there, you surely won't be disappointed in the long run, obviously what we have now is good stuff. My apologies for not getting into this community sooner as it appears everyone has a skewed view of how things should be.

More to come

We are non stop and we got tons of other stuff that you have yet to be seen period.

[IshiKage]

isnt that due to the fueling and air inductions probs with the MZR?

vivid, ptp, and race roots are working on solutions which should allow us to make this motor finally make power. be patient scatt,
theres light at the end of the tunnel

[Hypnotized]

Mani looks sick. Cant wait to see what else is coming!

[spheed3]

Manifold and turbo system concept are awesome. I hope some sort of fueling solution (injectors?) is on the way from you guys.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty This manifold is gorgeous. I'm assuming there won't be fitment issues. Not to be Debbie Downer but this still doesn't tell me why a 35R is only yielding 350whp I understand bills need to be paid and you guys are in it to make money like everyone else. I just wish your obvious skills could be put towards some R&D as to why a built motor, with a big turbo, AND nitrous only yields low 400's. Not to mention the ONLY person to do such a feat is a private member rigging up his own shit. (GJ Socks) From a consumer point of view, at the moment I would opt for a cheaper manifold. Why ? Because a cheaper manifold will still net me the 350whp cap and keep a few hundred extra dollars in my pocket.

The engine will not flow that kind of air stock, we have flow bench numbers for the TB, IM, and head now so it isnt much of a secret anymore. The highest flowing is the IM, the lowest flowing is the head with the factory cam. The TB is good to about 415 crank hp @ 24psi. Unfortunately no one is messing with heads, cams, and TBs because of the cost, I already have nearly 3k in my head and cams, but its good to over 600whp. The TB is going to be a pain since it is DBW so we will likely have to rip one off of another vehicle, splice it in, and do some major tuning.

This is really a difficult, expensive car to mod. We have basically always had options for TBEs and exhaust manifolds, and now we have good IM porting so we are slowly getting there.

[Scatt Nasty]

Originally Posted by Race Roots Scatt I actually agree with you to a certain extent. With our team and 25 plus years of designing and engineering experiences with various race teams, extensive product development and constant state of improvement we are coming in with a fresh view. We already have more products that we are going to be releasing that are going to be addressing various issues and other upgrades that have been overlooked with the car. Why haven't we released it? Because we vigorously test our products to ensure quality and value, R&D takes time and we like perfection as you can see from our work so far. As for buying crap products and poorly designed items I disagree with you. With our experiences a weak link in a turbo system in total design looking at everything from the intake to manifold and downpipe the littlest oversight or incorrectly designed part can cost you 30 whp (so to speak for example) This compounds itself when you slap a bunch of parts together and expect big numbers but don't address all issues such as fuel, ignition, proper flow, tuning and get disappointed when you don't have all your ducks in a row. Scatt give us a chance to get everything out there, you surely won't be disappointed in the long run, obviously what we have now is good stuff. My apologies for not getting into this community sooner as it appears everyone has a skewed view of how things should be. More to come We are non stop and we got tons of other stuff that you have yet to be seen period.

Sounds good. As long as it is something on your plate and you aren't trying to score some quick bucks with hard parts that there is already an abundance of...

Also... Are you guys going to look into the actual reasons motor's blow from stock to fully bolted ? We should be able to hold alot more power on stock internals.

It's amazing how many fucking tuning/car experts we have on here. EVERYONE can speculate the 100's of reasons, but nobody knows the fix haha. So don't chime in with your bullshit guys.

If you say "it's all in the tuning" I want to know where.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty Sounds good. As long as it is something on your plate and you aren't trying to score some quick bucks with hard parts that there is already an abundance of... Also... Are you guys going to look into the actual reasons motor's blow from stock to fully bolted ? We should be able to hold alot more power on stock internals. It's amazing how many fucking tuning/car experts we have on here. EVERYONE can speculate the 100's of reasons, but nobody knows the fix haha. So don't chime in with your bullshit guys. If you say "it's all in the tuning" I want to know where.

I am not going to engage into a debate on the MZR, engines blow up it happens. There is a multitude of reasons that it occur it is just not one.

I am not here to provide information for a reason why they blow up, if you want to know you should do your own research. I know we are. We are not here to hold your hand, we are here to develop products that work and perform as they are expected to, and solve the problems at hand.

Like you said we are a business, and we are going to make products that support the community need. With that being said we actually have a PCV fix that is in the works, but that is neither here nor there and another day.

We have all of these things on our plate and much more so Scatt, save it for when we let you down, becasue we certainly have not and will not.

One thing that drives us is passion.....we love doing this for a living, and we have been doing this for a long time. Collectively we are unrelentless until we are satisfied.

In all we have invested over 500+ hours of R&D into this platform if not more, I would appreciate if you sat back and waited.

[madvillain]

thanks brice for the info! im not trying to be cheap or anything, i was just curious as to how adaptable the kit was to others. if i decide to do this, i will be doing it correctly, i will be buying the kit in its entirety.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by madvillain thanks brice for the info! im not trying to be cheap or anything, i was just curious as to how adaptable the kit was to others. if i decide to do this, i will be doing it correctly, i will be buying the kit in its entirety.

Sounds good let me know when you are ready. We will be here

[glocK23]

Thanks brice!

[Babyface]

This looks promising

[slo4now]

Everything has looked promising for this car for over 2+yrs and still no 400-500whp
speeds anywhere. I'll be the first to buy this whole package once this goal is
achieved succesfully and safely.Till then i'll just be slo4now.

[Mr.Steve-O]

looks real good

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by slo4now Everything has looked promising for this car for over 2+yrs and still no 400-500whp speeds anywhere. I'll be the first to buy this whole package once this goal is achieved succesfully and safely.Till then i'll just be slo4now.

We were debating where most customers wanted to be with their car. We were thinking 350whp is what most wanted to do for a DD/Fun car.

Our aspirations are we always push everything to the max so we will be looking to do 400 and up in the future with supplemental systems. We really never stop, we just get bored and keep going.

So our plan is to max out the stock systems to see how far they really can go and see what can be done safely, we have done our homework and have a good idea of where we will be at but real world testing speaks leaps and bounds over customer thoughts and experience.

So we are taking our kit with a stock engine and stock fuel system with our turbosystem to the dyno soon with our choice of Turbo to show where the turbo system will sit.

We are already working on supplemental products that are going to give us the edge and put us over our goal but we are just not going to share everything just yet.

[slo4now]

Keep up the good work, i myself am looking for 425-450whp DD.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty ... at the moment I would opt for a cheaper manifold. Why ? Because a cheaper manifold will still net me the 350whp cap and keep a few hundred extra dollars in my pocket.

You really think so? Even though we are offering our intro price at the same price even though we know ours is better in so many ways just to get it out there.

A side by side comparison of PG V3 and our manifold



Based on the angles they are not 100% but you get the idea of how ours is lower and down and out. For this reason we wanted to keep the heat down and out. Also we have another trick up our sleeve that will go along with this manifold that will get that heat out of the engine.

Because we all know how much heat soak this car has and how much power it takes away from the car....

[Fagwagon]

This system looks perfect for those of us wanting to go bigger turbo...what flange is on the manifold?

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Fagwagon This system looks perfect for those of us wanting to go bigger turbo...what flange is on the manifold?

T4 but can be adapted to T3 as well as stock as needed.

[Fagwagon]

Great! What turbo would you recommend using?

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Fagwagon Great! What turbo would you recommend using?

Depends on what your desired power range is and what primarily application will be.

I.E. Track car, Fun Car, Autocross so on and so forth

[IshiKage]

let say for the street and a good DD putting out 350-375whp

which turbo to go with

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 let say for the street and a good DD putting out 350-375whp which turbo to go with

I would stay with the turbo we have, they are excellent reliable and proven. The key point I want to stress is RELIABLE!

We have used them on tons of other applications with excellent results. The turbo itself is not too large where it won't experience as much as lag as comparable turbos as most think.

Running a lower PSI will allow you that room when boost addiction kicks in you can turn it up without having to upgrade to a larger turbo. ( and it always does)

There are other little things we can do by upgrading the hot side for even more performance gains.

The turbo selection we have is ideal for those in 350-500 range and then some

[IshiKage]

fuck yeah

[BudUMfan]

Looks awesome!

[lidokrantz]

have to say....i really like your path on this upgrade...i TOTALLY feel it is much better to buy a proven complete system rather than putting together parts that may not compliment each other in fit and performance......a upgrade like this with all it's R&D that went into it is worth every penny as proven results and fit have already been done. When the time is right in a few years when my warranty is off, i will take a very good look at this as my son and i have made a decision to go for a 350-400 whp beast....i will be watching as the progress continues on this system and will be gearing up for it in the future...
GREAT JOB RACE ROOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND THE MANI AND THE PARTS LOOK LIKE YOU HAVE CERTAINLY DONE YOUR HOMEWORK OVER THE YEARS....BRAVO

[Scatt Nasty]

Originally Posted by Race Roots I am not going to engage into a debate on the MZR, engines blow up it happens. There is a multitude of reasons that it occur it is just not one. I am not here to provide information for a reason why they blow up, if you want to know you should do your own research. I know we are. We are not here to hold your hand, we are here to develop products that work and perform as they are expected to, and solve the problems at hand. Like you said we are a business, and we are going to make products that support the community need. With that being said we actually have a PCV fix that is in the works, but that is neither here nor there and another day. We have all of these things on our plate and much more so Scatt, save it for when we let you down, becasue we certainly have not and will not. One thing that drives us is passion.....we love doing this for a living, and we have been doing this for a long time. Collectively we are unrelentless until we are satisfied. In all we have invested over 500+ hours of R&D into this platform if not more, I would appreciate if you sat back and waited.

It seems as though you misinterpreted what I said.

When I said I was referring to all the "tuning/car experts" on this forum I was talking about members. Not you guys. I was referring to other members when I said not to chime in with the BS.

The point was to find out whether or not you guys are looking into the mysterious thrown rods. It should definitely be on your plate. Why ?

Because if no one finds out why your new manifold and turbo setup is 90% only going to be purchased by people with built motors. Maybe I'm just fucking crazy, but I'm personally not going to buy all this badass equipment when there's a large chance I'm going to mysteriously throw a rod.

If you or anyone else could find out why our motors blow, AND find a fix. Think of all those potential customers out there that are currently on the edge of whether or not to even mod their daily driver because it could spontaneously combust.

You aren't understanding. You have to think like johnny-consumer.
If I "save it" for when you let me down, that means that I'll be sitting on the side of the road with a 300 yard streak of oil behind me. But goddam, I'll have a BADASS manifold under my hood !!!!!!!!!

You need to overcome Mazda's fail if you really want people to spend thousands of dollars on your parts. This is why vendor's come around these parts like saigon whores. Show up, realize fail, ditch platform,rinse, repeat. Weve seen it lots of times.

And apparently I'm the only one that realizes this, or people don't want to speak the fuck up. I'm not trying to trash you in any way, that manifold is amazing. I'm trying to help YOU out lol.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty You need to overcome Mazda's fail if you really want people to spend thousands of dollars on your parts. This is why vendor's come around these parts like saigon whores. Show up, realize fail, ditch platform,rinse, repeat. Weve seen it lots of times. And apparently I'm the only one that realizes this, or people don't want to speak the fuck up. I'm not trying to trash you in any way, that manifold is amazing. I'm trying to help YOU out lol.

This does hold alot of people back from modding.

I bet if someone did some simple tests such as putting just an egt or o2 sensor in each of the exhaust runners, I bet the problem would be staring us in the face and a solution would be near obvious. A test like that would eliminate speculation about the performance of the fuel and induction systems under the part throttle conditions that lead to most of the thrown rods.

If the engine is leaning out more on cyl #3 than the others like I think it is, then we can eliminate CDFP, rail, chamber shape, rod strength, piston strength, rotating assembly geometry, oil hydrolock, wrist pin seizure from heat/oiling, piston to wall tolerances, piston to pin tolerances, rod to pin tolerances, balance shaft tolerances, thrust bearing wear, main girdle strength, main bolt strength, spark plug temperatures, and lean factory tuning as possible causes because I have heard each of those suggested.

The only things that would remain as causes are IM flow differences between the runners, injector flow rate differences, head port flow differences. Of those, only runner/port flow differences really explain why we mainly blow on a single cyl on all known mazdaspeed 2.3l DISI engines because injector flow rate differences would randomly affect different cylinders on different engines.

Flow matched intake manifolds are a largely untapped market with only MAPs ported IMs, and they are, to my knowledge, not individually benched and they are hand ported so I am not sure you could legitimately call them flow matched. PTP offers a CNC ported head but no flow numbers have ever been posted, they are ungodly expensive, and use a hemi style chamber design which I am less than sold on.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by Scatt Nasty It seems as though you misinterpreted what I said. When I said I was referring to all the "tuning/car experts" on this forum I was talking about members. Not you guys. I was referring to other members when I said not to chime in with the BS. The point was to find out whether or not you guys are looking into the mysterious thrown rods. It should definitely be on your plate. Why ? Because if no one finds out why your new manifold and turbo setup is 90% only going to be purchased by people with built motors. Maybe I'm just fucking crazy, but I'm personally not going to buy all this badass equipment when there's a large chance I'm going to mysteriously throw a rod. If you or anyone else could find out why our motors blow, AND find a fix. Think of all those potential customers out there that are currently on the edge of whether or not to even mod their daily driver because it could spontaneously combust. You aren't understanding. You have to think like johnny-consumer. If I "save it" for when you let me down, that means that I'll be sitting on the side of the road with a 300 yard streak of oil behind me. But goddam, I'll have a BADASS manifold under my hood !!!!!!!!! You need to overcome Mazda's fail if you really want people to spend thousands of dollars on your parts. This is why vendor's come around these parts like saigon whores. Show up, realize fail, ditch platform,rinse, repeat. Weve seen it lots of times. And apparently I'm the only one that realizes this, or people don't want to speak the fuck up. I'm not trying to trash you in any way, that manifold is amazing. I'm trying to help YOU out lol.

We are all well aware of the issues. Like I said we are working on them and we have solutions for them, they are not 100% complete. Just becasue we chose not to say we have a fix and then oops! Just isn't how we do things. We read all the threads and see the issues you guys post about.

When they are ready, you will know. You will have the option to buy them if you chose not to well that's on you.

Crapping in this thread and saying this and that have no correlation to our product is not appreciated then saying oh don't get me wrong this is gorgeous.

To keep it simple the issues:

- PCV
- Tuning
- Heat Soak

These lead to the issues of knock, timing, improper fuel mixture so on and so forth...these are not the limitations. We are aware of the limitations. Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

The people that say they are tuners well I cannot speak for them and their length of experience or the methods they use.

Ours, well it is apparent in our tuning abilities on a stock car we have our dyno plots.

I challenge you to wait and be patient. Sit back, watch and learn. Listen instead of speak. The answers and results will come.

[IshiKage]

scatt...i think they realize all that

but i think everyone here has finally stepped back and is giving these vendors the breathing room they deserve to finish their R&D...just give them time.

i can imgaine how much of a pain it is for vendors to do a community a favor and create parts eventhough money is the goal for them and members constant are talking shit before the product is even nearly completion...let them complete their R&D before bombarding them with these types of questions.

theres no point in them making package product like this thats going to cause motors to blow since that means they arent going to be making money.

i can see the dilemma for a vendor whether to keep their lips zipped or leak alittle info about a product they are making if people are going to start jumping all over them with negative nancy rants...i understand why cobb had their beef with us

just give them their space and lets see what their conclusions are...i know im excited like alot of others seem to be

GO RACE ROOTS!!!

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 This does hold alot of people back from modding. I bet if someone did some simple tests such as putting just an egt or o2 sensor in each of the exhaust runners, I bet the problem would be staring us in the face and a solution would be near obvious. A test like that would eliminate speculation about the performance of the fuel and induction systems under the part throttle conditions that lead to most of the thrown rods. If the engine is leaning out more on cyl #3 than the others like I think it is, then we can eliminate CDFP, rail, chamber shape, rod strength, piston strength, rotating assembly geometry, oil hydrolock, wrist pin seizure from heat/oiling, piston to wall tolerances, piston to pin tolerances, rod to pin tolerances, balance shaft tolerances, thrust bearing wear, main girdle strength, main bolt strength, spark plug temperatures, and lean factory tuning as possible causes because I have heard each of those suggested. The only things that would remain as causes are IM flow differences between the runners, injector flow rate differences, head port flow differences. Of those, only runner/port flow differences really explain why we mainly blow on a single cyl on all known mazdaspeed 2.3l DISI engines because injector flow rate differences would randomly affect different cylinders on different engines. Flow matched intake manifolds are a largely untapped market with only MAPs ported IMs, and they are, to my knowledge, not individually benched and they are hand ported so I am not sure you could legitimately call them flow matched. PTP offers a CNC ported head but no flow numbers have ever been posted, they are ungodly expensive, and use a hemi style chamber design which I am less than sold on.

And this is precisely what we have been doing, gathering our own data on our shop MS3 and modding the car to see what and how it responds. We just haven't posted all of our findings becasue we want to supply you with a fix.

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 scatt...i think they realize all that but i think everyone here has finally stepped back and is giving these vendors the breathing room they deserve to finish their R&D...just give them time. .... theres no point in them making package product like this thats going to cause motors to blow since that means they arent going to be making money. i can see the dilemma for a vendor whether to keep their lips zipped or leak alittle info about a product they are making if people are going to start jumping all over them with negative nancy rants...i understand why cobb had their beef with us just give them their space and lets see what their conclusions are...i know im excited like alot of others seem to be GO RACE ROOTS!!!

Really, thank you for understanding where we are coming from. This is exactly the mindset we are in currently.

[lidokrantz]

quote This does hold alot of people back from modding.

Indeed man, i had the mod bug big time back a couple years ago and you do not no how many times i cringed every time a fellow member blew his motor...so many times i had my car up for sale twice.....and now i am back to stock because of this....true many of the blowsa may be driver error but just toooooo many for me to dump thousands into the car till things are figured out or my warranty is over....If cars were not popping i would care less about a warranty...but my young son has limited amount of money, and with college expenses looooooooming around the corner we need my ass finacially coverd ATM....so indeed Scott Nasty has some very valid points of view.

[Race Roots]

Originally Posted by lidokrantz quote This does hold alot of people back from modding. Indeed man, i had the mod bug big time back a couple years ago and you do not no how many times i cringed every time a fellow member blew his motor...so many times i had my car up for sale twice.....and now i am back to stock because of this....true many of the blowsa may be driver error but just toooooo many for me to dump thousands into the car till things are figured out or my warranty is over....If cars were not popping i would care less about a warranty...but my young son has limited amount of money, and with college expenses looooooooming around the corner we need my ass finacially coverd ATM....so indeed Scott Nasty has some very valid points of view.

I think he has as well, we are well aware of all of it.

[Scatt Nasty]

Originally Posted by Race Roots We are all well aware of the issues. Like I said we are working on them and we have solutions for them, they are not 100% complete. Just becasue we chose not to say we have a fix and then oops! Just isn't how we do things. We read all the threads and see the issues you guys post about. When they are ready, you will know. You will have the option to buy them if you chose not to well that's on you. Crapping in this thread and saying this and that have no correlation to our product is not appreciated then saying oh don't get me wrong this is gorgeous. To keep it simple the issues: - PCV - Tuning - Heat Soak These lead to the issues of knock, timing, improper fuel mixture so on and so forth...these are not the limitations. We are aware of the limitations. Thank you for pointing out the obvious. The people that say they are tuners well I cannot speak for them and their length of experience or the methods they use. Ours, well it is apparent in our tuning abilities on a stock car we have our dyno plots. I challenge you to wait and be patient. Sit back, watch and learn. Listen instead of speak. The answers and results will come.

lol You think I'm crapping on your thread ?
Is that because I'm not a vendor nutswinger or one of the other random "awesome manifold !!" etc etc... I have said it was a good manifold in multiple posts, hell, even in another thread. But OK.

This has everything to do with your manifold.
I would hate to see production stop because not enough people want to purchase, resulting in a higher price.

I wonder why they wouldn't want to spend 900 dollars on a manifold... HRMMM see above post.

IMO releasing your "fix" thats up your sleeve first would be smarter. If the consumer knows his motor is solid, hes gonna buy your shit up. Plain and simple.

I want this manifold to stay cheap, and you want people to buy it.

I'll be anxiously waiting for future products from you guys.

Here's your breathing room.