Smoke at idle fixes, my thoughts and notes

[DuBz]

no, no, no man. I was looking for,"It'll all be ok," or "just shove a potato in the tailpipe," or "just drive the fucker off a cliff" u know that sort of thing.

[tddvrrn]

Originally Posted by DuBz ok so i just finished making my bnoon bolt, but as i go deeper and deeper into the forums im starting to lose faith. For some, the bnoon bolt is the all mighty savior. For others, they need to raise the idle, throw in thicker oil, get the vent fix, etc. Then there's still other fuckers that say none of these fixes do shit. Seems like i have a 50/50 shot. i have a HT tune so i can only bump the idle up +200( i know i should just get the AP, forgive my brokeness), will that be enough? With all this bullshit being said, will there ever be an end to the dreaded smoking turbo, or is it BT time?

just up your idle and see. why you ask us? see if it works and TELL us!

[DuBz]

yes yes i know...i talk a lot of sheet

[DuBz]

upped the idle today (+200) and voila! no smoke. I make no assumptions cuz she's infamous for being smoke free one day, then smoking at every red light the next. For the sake of science, I'll hold off on the bnoon bolt n see if the raised idle is enough, then throw it in there anyway for good measure

[kkostec]

Bnoon bolt, ptp pill, still nothing... :'( the next step will be raising the idle. It seems to work when I raise the idle myself.

[G Sp33dy]

Ive been raising the idle manually at red lights and still smoking like a SOB. Should I even bother throwing an upped idle tune on it?? I have cobb ap but I also have a Mac, ATR is Win only, so if anyone is bored can I get a CS 93oct TIH v200 tune with idle raised to 1050 or 1100 rpms???? pretty plz????? I'm still smoking a ton during shifts and coasting as well. I doubt idle raising will help at all

[RidenDirty]

Hey bnoon, are you still making those restrictor bolts??? If so how much for me to get one from you??? I am having the same problem and would love to get it fixed asap!!!

[G Sp33dy]

added rotella t-6 5w40 + my banjo bolt and still smoking. Unfortunately bnoon the files you sent me are "locked" to your AP ser# and I can't load them, but thanks anyway. I will be using atr tonight to raise the idle and see if that helps. Hope my new valve cover gets here early tomorrow...

[G Sp33dy]

IDK if this matters, but while changing the oil today I noticed some oil dripping from the oil drain line from the turbo, leaking down the drain tube, and a small amount was on my plastic undertray and speckles on my drive axle. Has anyone else had this happen? Its making me wonder if the oil drain tube is somehow clogged. Is there an oil screen in there? Idle bump to 1000 rpms did not work whatsoever.

[Tabasco69]

To me it could be a couple of things causing the smoke at idle and they all have something to do with the oil return from the tc, it couuld be compounding issues, but basically it is a pressure issue.
The crankcase vent system not venting properly can cause backpressure, ie a garrett GT series turbo seals are designed to weep once the cartridge chamber pressure exceeds @45psi, it will load the hot&cold side pipes with oil until the back pressure source is fixed. IDK know what the oe ms3 borgwarners are designed to do handle over pressurization....but smoke at idle is a clear signe oil is making it past the hotside seal.

A kinked or damaged return line, I actually had the lining come apart inside the return line causing this to happen, and it was not obvious.

I eventually found the damage of the liner after the fact when I was able to cut the line, clean it throroughly and throw some light down the inside/post mortem inspection, what I did in the meantime was to weld a -10an aluminum bung to the highest point possible in the oil pan, bought a -10 return adapter for the tc and ran -10an oil return line.....overkill but hey I know that fucker has no restriction problems do to size now, then I check the vent system out.

[Chimmike]

<----- has a non-smoking k04 for sale, with bnoon bolt for a lil extra

[boostinp]

Sorry for the noob question but the bnoon bolt fixes smoking or do you have to up the idle rpms as well? Also it swapping to the gt series turbo just a simple swap and does that eliminate smoking all together? I am looking into purchasing one of these cars but I dont want to start modding only to have it start smoking..

[karl-hungus]

^^^ if you're buying, i'd let the car idle for 10 minutes to see if it smokes. the current owner should be able to tell you if the turbo was replaced and / or the vent kit was installed.

i'd use the combination of 5w40, up the idle, and add a bnoon bolt and occ just to be on the safe side. oh, and don't forget to drain your occ.

check out the bt turbo swap how-to's. i wouldn't call it a simple swap.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by karl-hungus ^^^ if you're buying, i'd let the car idle for 10 minutes to see if it smokes. the current owner should be able to tell you if the turbo was replaced and / or the vent kit was installed. i'd use the combination of 5w40, up the idle, and add a bnoon bolt and occ just to be on the safe side. oh, and don't forget to drain your occ. check out the bt turbo swap how-to's. i wouldn't call it a simple swap.

[boostinp]

So stock if it smokes after 10 minutes it most likely needs a new turbo how much smoke am I looking for?

[karl-hungus]

you're looking for any smoke.

[boostinp]

Cool thanks

[DiGi Faggot]

So i'm curious. If the PCV(is broken?) goes unfixed for a long time and you smoke for a long time.

Could this lead to piston ring failure?

[zspalm1]

i don't know if anyone has covered this, so i will. Mazda's final smoking turbo fix is the way to go with the smoking problem. i purchased the pt-performance pill thing and it did not work. my car being out of warranty mileage i had to do the fix my self. yes the factory recall replaces alot more then what i did but it works with no need for idle raising or pt pill or the oil restrictor bolt. all i did was go to advance auto purchase a universal vaccum T some 1\2 inch and 1\8 inch tubing just incase you F up (not sure about the 1\8, blah). looked up the diagram from mazdas recall and did it like that. let me know if you guys want pictures or want to give me lessons in writing.

[bnoon]

Originally Posted by zspalm1 i don't know if anyone has covered this, so i will. Mazda's final smoking turbo fix is the way to go with the smoking problem. i purchased the pt-performance pill thing and it did not work. my car being out of warranty mileage i had to do the fix my self. yes the factory recall replaces alot more then what i did but it works with no need for idle raising or pt pill or the oil restrictor bolt. all i did was go to advance auto purchase a universal vaccum T some 1\2 inch and 1\8 inch tubing just incase you F up (not sure about the 1\8, blah). looked up the diagram from mazdas recall and did it like that. let me know if you guys want pictures or want to give me lessons in writing.

Been there, tried that, didn't work for many many many members. Glad it worked for you.

[zspalm1]

Yep it worked for me I've only had one instance.where it smoked but it was because I was at idle with ac and reving it a little once.I stopped it went away quick though

[Mandinca]

I want to buy one of the bnoon bolts, where can I get one.

I've searched the threads and come up with varying answers so I apologize if the next questions seem redundant.

Do I have to have an AP to set my idle, the dash reads about 900rpm when warmed up, is that the correct rpm to potentially fix the smoking ?

Should I rebuild the turbo while I have the manifold off or just do the bolt and rpm ?

Last thing, I live in CT where it gets cold in winter and hot in the summer, can I still use 5/40 or should I use 5/30 ?
Does it have to be synthetic ? I cover a lot of miles on my daily commute so oil changes are frequent.

Thanks.

[arrestmered07]

Originally Posted by Lex Very good write-up about this issue. Another "fix" - keeping slightly higher pressure on the exhaust end with a cat would also help the smoking issues with the stock turbo.

Agreed. My car doesn't smoke with cats on but as soon as the downpipe was installed it started smoking at idle again.

[arrestmered07]

Originally Posted by DuBz upped the idle today (+200) and voila! no smoke. I make no assumptions cuz she's infamous for being smoke free one day, then smoking at every red light the next. For the sake of science, I'll hold off on the bnoon bolt n see if the raised idle is enough, then throw it in there anyway for good measure

How has this worked for you? Did you end up needing to buy the bold or was raising the idle a fix?

Thanks!

[arrestmered07]

Originally Posted by boostinp Sorry for the noob question but the bnoon bolt fixes smoking or do you have to up the idle rpms as well? Also it swapping to the gt series turbo just a simple swap and does that eliminate smoking all together? I am looking into purchasing one of these cars but I dont want to start modding only to have it start smoking..

From what I have read, it seems like the bolt alone fixes it for some but others need both. I have the bolt and it hasn't helped me any. I'm getting an AP to raise the idle and crossing my fingers that it fixes the problem.

[Poohster]

Originally Posted by arrestmered07 From what I have read, it seems like the bolt alone fixes it for some but others need both. I have the bolt and it hasn't helped me any. I'm getting an AP to raise the idle and crossing my fingers that it fixes the problem.

Having the AP is a great mod and can help the smoking issue by raising the idle. I had the smoking issue too when I installed a re-worked K04 and a catted DP. I switched to 5W-50 oil and that stopped the smoking. I have, since then, installed bnoon bolt and switched back to 5W-40 oil and once in a great moon when temps are about 100 degrees I will see occassional smoke. Try the heavier oil first and then get the AP. But eventually get the AP. Guys here love it. GL

[DuBz]

Raising the idle was enough for me, then I switched to rotella and have been smoke free ever since. Some people have good results with 1 of the three fixes, others need to use all of them, and some people just never stop......who needs red lights and stop signs anyways. GL

[Mase33]

i wanted to buy one of those bolt-original..

Please tell me where to get one?

it has been a month my car smokes like crazy till i stop driving now...

sorry for double posted...desperately need help here ...Thanks

[treavis]

I saw a "Banjo" bolt on ebay. its simular. I am going to purchase one. Its under 20$. Just have to make sure its same specification drill hole size as bnoon's. The one i saw says 1.5mm restrictor.

[neetriht]

No smoke ever, installed downpipe and test pipe and smoked horribly. Heavy oil...nope. Made my own bnoon bolt...nope. Raised idle to 900rpm... Done, no more smoke. Next on the list, bigger turbo and custom manifold. Should have just done that first.

Tap tap I'm drunk

[Mandinca]

Can anyone explain why raising the idle to 900rpm cures a smoking turbo ?
Also, is it possible to do it without coughing up $$$ for an AP ?

[jm211]

Originally Posted by Mandinca Can anyone explain why raising the idle to 900rpm cures a smoking turbo ? Also, is it possible to do it without coughing up $$$ for an AP ?

If you read bnoon's thread, he covers all options...
In short it increases vacuum. More vacuum. Means less oil seeping past Turbo seals on the k04.

You have a few options. Restictor bolt, higher idle, bnr or gt Turbo, thicker oil, new valve cover from Mazda.


An AP makes a big difference overall on the feel of the car. Much smoother, more power and not to mention better MPG and safety. So, with that said an ap is well worth it.

[Mandinca]

Thanks @jm211;
What kind of MPG can I expect from a lean map ?
How much does it affect performance ?

[jm211]

I have a few MPG boost in city but freeway I get up to 35 consistently. The stock map assumes stupid American meaning they running rich to protect the motor.

A lot of the part throttle stumble goes way too, meaning smoother.

The ap truly wakes the car up. Plus it helps let you know of pending issues like leaks because it takes readings from the ecu.


It gives better timing by assuming you run the correct octane fuel for the map you choose. Bear in mind, they are off the shelf maps meaning you may need to clean it up some.

[randomtask16]

Originally Posted by jm211 You have a few options. Restictor bolt, higher idle, bnr or gt Turbo, thicker oil, new valve cover from Mazda. An AP makes a big difference overall on the feel of the car. Much smoother, more power and not to mention better MPG and safety. So, with that said an ap is well worth it.

I was going to start my own thread but decided to revive this one instead since it contains a good deal of valuable info.

The GF has a 2008 w/78k miles and is smoking more and more as time goes on.
I have applied all aftermarket fixes except raising the idle due to the cost of an AP. I have manually raised the idle myself at redlights with zero effect.

What options do we have from this point? From everything I've read the only clear, absolute 100% fix is a GT turbo. The car is stock and she wants to keep it that way. I would think Mazda, cobb, fp, corksport, or somebody would have an improved design stock turbo or PVC kit that solves the issue by now? By kit I mean complete system fix like what Mazda released. We've tried the COBB PVC setup and Corksport OCC with no result.

Anyway, any info would be greatly appreciated. It's to the point I'm having to talk her out of trading it in every few weeks because the smoke just keeps getting worse.

[Mandinca]

Originally Posted by randomtask16 I was going to start my own thread but decided to revive this one instead since it contains a good deal of valuable info. The GF has a 2008 w/78k miles and is smoking more and more as time goes on. I have applied all aftermarket fixes except raising the idle due to the cost of an AP. I have manually raised the idle myself at redlights with zero effect. What options do we have from this point? From everything I've read the only clear, absolute 100% fix is a GT turbo. The car is stock and she wants to keep it that way. I would think Mazda, cobb, fp, corksport, or somebody would have an improved design stock turbo or PVC kit that solves the issue by now? By kit I mean complete system fix like what Mazda released. We've tried the COBB PVC setup and Corksport OCC with no result. Anyway, any info would be greatly appreciated. It's to the point I'm having to talk her out of trading it in every few weeks because the smoke just keeps getting worse.

Is it the turbo that's smoking at idle or are you just burning oil ?
A word of caution - I replaced my K04 with a rebuilt one and it made no difference at all. Seems that my issue was not a smoking turbo but something more serious. I'm looking at a new motor for mine. I had about 110K on my motor when it started getting through a lot of oil (a qt every 200 miles). I now have 142K and it hasn't got any worse. Of course, things are getting gummed up (mainly the EGR which is an emissions fail in CT). Plus I can't go WOT without getting huge clouds of dark smoke out the back.....
Anyway, looks like my problem is either rings, a cracked piston or valve seals. Either way the engine is getting old..time for a new one.

Have you tried the new valve cover ? I believe there was an improved design which assisted crankcase venting.

[jm211]

Does it always smoke, or just at idle after a period of time? Leads into the questions @Mandinca; asked.

You can get a rebuild ko4 for a few hundred dollars. That will fail again over time. A bnr stage 1 wont require ecu tuning and will never leak due to the design but will run you around $1000.

However, do confirm what is actually going on. You can do a compression AND leakdown test to check for other leaks and get an idea on engine health. If it all passes as ok then we can move forward.

[randomtask16]

Originally Posted by Mandinca Is it the turbo that's smoking at idle or are you just burning oil ? A word of caution - I replaced my K04 with a rebuilt one and it made no difference at all. Seems that my issue was not a smoking turbo but something more serious. I'm looking at a new motor for mine. I had about 110K on my motor when it started getting through a lot of oil (a qt every 200 miles). I now have 142K and it hasn't got any worse. Of course, things are getting gummed up (mainly the EGR which is an emissions fail in CT). Plus I can't go WOT without getting huge clouds of dark smoke out the back..... Anyway, looks like my problem is either rings, a cracked piston or valve seals. Either way the engine is getting old..time for a new one. Have you tried the new valve cover ? I believe there was an improved design which assisted crankcase venting.

This post reminded me of 2 things I forogot to list. The vehicle history report showed it failed emissions, then passed the next day not long before she bought it. There is also a small amount of oil leaking out of the center/cartrige of the turbo. It's not much, but it is clear there is oil coming out of thr turbo. I havent looked into the valve cover yet, but might.

Originally Posted by jm211 Does it always smoke, or just at idle after a period of time? Leads into the questions @Mandinca; asked. You can get a rebuild ko4 for a few hundred dollars. That will fail again over time. A bnr stage 1 wont require ecu tuning and will never leak due to the design but will run you around $1000. However, do confirm what is actually going on. You can do a compression AND leakdown test to check for other leaks and get an idea on engine health. If it all passes as ok then we can move forward.

It smokes at and after idle only. Just a 30second redlight will produce smoke until abour 3rd gear. The longer the idle period the more smoke is produced to a point. After a few minutes it stays constant. There is virtually none during normal driving and accelleration. I guess i kinda question the integrity of the existing turbo since it i leaking oil in addition to the smoke. I'm planning to do a valve and EGR cleaning as soon as we have the time and will do a compression check while.I'm at it and go from there. Who knows, maybe the EGR or oil return are gunked up and causing this. Thanks for the replies

[jm211]

Drive so there is no smoke from idle then go WOT. Get any buffs of smoke rigt as you mash the accelerator?

[Mandinca]

Originally Posted by jm211 Drive so there is no smoke from idle then go WOT. Get any buffs of smoke rigt as you mash the accelerator?

I get clouds at WOT but none at idle. The clouds go away after a few bursts of WOT until after I have cruised for a while. Then if I mash it again the clouds are back. I use a qt every 200 miles so I'm assuming the CATS are hiding the oil usage (no blue smoke) then blasting it out when I mash it.

Anyway, enough thread hijacking from me.

My oil burning caused my EGR to become almost completely clogged and foul my plugs every 2000 miles. I haven't looked at the EGR valve itself but the port in the IM gets almost completely blocked with gunk. I have to pull the IM to clean it out. PITA.
If you haven't done it before there are some good write-ups on how to do it - I can send you the one I used which is very good.
The first time I did it it took me about 6 hours. I have it down to under 3 now.
An air ratchet helps to speed things up.

Turbo replacement is a bit more complicated and near impossible if you have a MS6 since the transfer case obscures the oil return bolts on the underside of the turbo. The 3 is easier because you can see them from under the car.

Both jobs require a few tools but nothing very unusual or expensive.
I found that I used the following :

Screwdrivers
Pliers
Deepwell metric sockets (up to 14mm)
Regular metric sockets
Flex head ratchet wrenches (very useful) - Harbor Freight sell them for a good price
A 22mm open head wrench (for the EGR flange nut at the IM)
Various size extensions
Universal joint for your socket set up
Floor stands and O2 sensor removal tool if you plan on doing the turbo
Gloves (or extra skin for your knuckles)
A five gallon bucket of patience.