Stock Turbo Specs

[Obey the Speed]

I am interesting in finding the specs to the stock turbo (MS3). I would like to know the trim (compressor and turbine), A/R (comp and turbine), wheel diameter (exd, ind, turbine) and inlet/exhaust flange type.

Where can I get this information? Please share. Thanks.

Vasken

[vladny1]

bump intrested aswell

[SpeedSixxx]

bump who cares the stock K04 is a POS.

be a man and go BT or GTFO.

[turd burglar]

i believe the specs are...

[lambo6]

LOL (srry too funny)

[bmylez]

Does this help any?

"Power balance is supported by a 79 trim 50mm turbine stage with an Inconel shaft-wheel mated to a 16.5mm A/R Niresist iron turbine housing. Maximum turbine speed is over 165,000rpm with a peak exhaust gas temperature in excess of 990 degrees Celsius."

2007 Mazdaspeed 3 - Sport Compact Car Magazine

[Lex]

What are you trying to achieve? Perhaps that will help us point you in the right direction. The compressor map is readily available on the site.

[cduhh]

Originally Posted by turd burglar i believe the specs are...

agreed smoking as of today. fml

[lildudeinacar]

i liked the article

[smakdown61]

I wouldn't call the k04 a shitty turbo for a stock application.

[aaronc7]

seeing how small it is, its pretty amazing some guys make 320whp with it, lol.

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 seeing how small it is, its pretty amazing some guys make 320whp with it, lol.

Yup! The car I'm picking up soon made 327. Not that big of a turd if you ask me. The turbo on the VW 1.8t maxes out way sooner, for instance.

[cduhh]

do they smoke as well?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by cduhh do they smoke as well?

The 1.8t? No idea. All I know is, the car I'm getting doesn't smoke, and it's been running strong for a while.

[turd burglar]

how many psi is this car running that you are picking up? cuz it might make that power, BUT the life of that little snail goes down hill above 17psi real fast

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by turd burglar how many psi is this car running that you are picking up? cuz it might make that power, BUT the life of that little snail goes down hill above 17psi real fast

I've been pumping 19-20 psi for about 20K now and no probs.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by bmylez The 1.8t? No idea. All I know is, the car I'm getting doesn't smoke, and it's been running strong for a while.

all I know is you have no idea about this car.......

keep telling yourself everything will be ok when you buy a modded car....

it's a FACT that our POS turbo will smoke once you put a DP on the car.

mine never did until I installed one..

if that thing makes 327 to the wheels on a unicorn dyno then I bet it smokes at long red lights and long waits at the drive thru.

good luck and BTW you don't know shit.

[07ms3obrien]

Any1 ever port and polish a k04 and really push it?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx all I know is you have no idea about this car....... keep telling yourself everything will be ok when you buy a modded car.... it's a FACT that our POS turbo will smoke once you put a DP on the car. mine never did until I installed one.. if that thing makes 327 to the wheels on a unicorn dyno then I bet it smokes at long red lights and long waits at the drive thru. good luck and BTW you don't know shit.

Damn, a lot of hate coming from someone I didn't even direct any comments at...

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by 07ms3obrien Any1 ever port and polish a k04 and really push it?

lol, there are a few "reworked" k04's made by some companies and I think the highest whp one of those speed 3's made was around 350ish... still a POS turbo.

I respect the evo SE...no faggot wing, manual windows and locks... no faggot boy racer shit.

welcome.

Originally Posted by bmylez Damn, a lot of hate coming from someone I didn't even direct any comments at...

i'm not hating friend.

just letting you know whats up.

don't go ape shit when your car smokes at long idle.. thats all.

"all I know is my car is 327 whp and running strong"

my point is you really have no idea how much fail can come from this car so take it easy and expect shit to happen.

[MSMS3]

I don't know where all these old wives tales and misinformation or downright wrong information is coming from regarding the K04 turbo.

The turbo is optimally sized for our car on stock application and for up to about 300 whp, which is as far as most guys want to go on the stock turbo. It is small for a reason - lightning fast spool up, absence of turbo lag and huge and immediate torque - strong and flat all across the power band.

The limitations on the turbo have to do not with maximum boost, but maximum boost at high rpm. For instance, it was the Neuspeed upgrade K04 for the 1.8 VW-Audi where it was discovered that Neuspeed's tune was too aggressive for the turbo's compressor map.

These are facts, not speculation or wild uninformed rumor:

Read the separate thread on the Neuspeed experience here and you will see that

1. The K04 has a very tiny 5 mm center shaft, hardened with inconel

2. The center shaft can handle exhaust gas temperatures at the housing of up to 1500 degrees F, with no problem. However, once you get above that temp, the shaft softens, sags and results in excessive wear on the journal bearings and eventual turbo failure.

3. 1500 degrees F. happens when boost exceeds 15 psi at engine operation under full load above 6,000 rpm on the 1.8 L engine. This will be a little different on our slightly larger displacement engine but not much.

4. The K04 will produce excellent boost and power at boost levels as high as 19-20 psi from 3,000 rpm up to about 5,500 rpm, but must then taper down to 15 psi or lower after this to protect the turbo.

5. Neuspeed had a rash of turbo failures, paid a ton of money for an outside engineering firm to do the root cause analysis of the failures and found out the above info. As a result, they revised their ECU mapping so as to prevent boost over 15 psi at engine speeds above 6,000 rpm and have solved the problem.


Now, applying this to our 2.3 L DISI engine, we know:

1. You can, indeed, safely run 19-20 psi, even on stock tune and not harm the turbo, provided that you are running stock tune and allow it to close the throttle body after about 5,800 rpm. This reduces air flow, controls boost and keeps EGT's below 1500 F. This will allow the turbo to operate optimally within its efficiency range and not overheat the center shaft or turn the turbo compressor side into a furnace.

2. Many of us have been running catless dp/rp's on stock tune with the stock K04 with no problems whatsoever. As you probably know, the combo of a good intake and a good catless dp/rp will raise boost levels to the 17-18 psi range, but the stock ECU does still start closing the throttle body at 5,800 rpm, so all is good and safe. I've been running this way since a few months after I got this '08 MS3 new in the spring of '08 and now have almost 47,000 very hard aggressive miles on the car. And no, I do not smoke.

3. Step up to a tune: I'm now running the mild Hypertech tune and have had it on the car for about the last 9,000 miles. With this tune, I'm now seeking 20 psi and a steady 19-20 psi target with no spikes, no boost creep or overboost, with a taper to about 16 at my 5,800 rpm shift point and a steady gradual decline in boost after that if I decide to stay in the thottle.

So, performance wise, with these modest mods I have run consistent 13.4 quarters at 106 at sea level with crappy 2.2 60 ft's because I'm still shitty at launching fwd. I have a YouTube posted 12.5 second 40-120 mph video (Google msms3 to find it), all before adding the HT tune. I've not been back to the track since adding the tune as my rear motor mount is stock, is now "wallowed out" and due to be replaced before tracking the car again. I'm probably a tenth or two quicker now.

The problem is not the turbo. It is the shitty PCV system on this car producing excessive crankcase pressure. I run full synthetic Mobile 1 5w30 year round and change it religiously every 3,000 miles. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I got "Superman" turbo seals, hell, I don't know. But my experience with the K04 at my mod level has been extremely favorable.

If I ever plan to build more power (I've not dynoed, but based on track times, I estimate I'm at the 270-280 whp level and about 300 lbs of torque), I'd go big turbo. But if I do so, I'd have to give up the quick spool up, instantaneous, no boost lag response I so love in a daily driver. I've run nice Garrett T4 variants on other applications. While I liked the power, I did not like the horrible boost lag and lack of low speed power and responsiveness. I have absolutely no reason call the K04 a POS. It is not. And within its limits is a very good choice for this car and for an upgrade for the 1.8L VW and Audi applications.

[alhope34]

I'm at 118,000 kms now and ran a catless DP for about 30,000 kms. My 08 was made May of 07 so Im on the original turbo before the "new" improved one came out. Ive since gone back to stock exhaust, but I have never smoked at all.

[Jkelley]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 I don't know where all these old wives tales and misinformation or downright wrong information is coming from regarding the K04 turbo. The turbo is optimally sized for our car on stock application and for up to about 300 whp, which is as far as most guys want to go on the stock turbo. It is small for a reason - lightning fast spool up, absence of turbo lag and huge and immediate torque - strong and flat all across the power band. The limitations on the turbo have to do not with maximum boost, but maximum boost at high rpm. For instance, it was the Neuspeed upgrade K04 for the 1.8 VW-Audi where it was discovered that Neuspeed's tune was too aggressive for the turbo's compressor map. These are facts, not speculation or wild uninformed rumor: Read the separate thread on the Neuspeed experience here and you will see that 1. The K04 has a very tiny 5 mm center shaft, hardened with inconel 2. The center shaft can handle exhaust gas temperatures at the housing of up to 1500 degrees F, with no problem. However, once you get above that temp, the shaft softens, sags and results in excessive wear on the journal bearings and eventual turbo failure. 3. 1500 degrees F. happens when boost exceeds 15 psi at engine operation under full load above 6,000 rpm on the 1.8 L engine. This will be a little different on our slightly larger displacement engine but not much. 4. The K04 will produce excellent boost and power at boost levels as high as 19-20 psi from 3,000 rpm up to about 5,500 rpm, but must then taper down to 15 psi or lower after this to protect the turbo. 5. Neuspeed had a rash of turbo failures, paid a ton of money for an outside engineering firm to do the root cause analysis of the failures and found out the above info. As a result, they revised their ECU mapping so as to prevent boost over 15 psi at engine speeds above 6,000 rpm and have solved the problem. Now, applying this to our 2.3 L DISI engine, we know: 1. You can, indeed, safely run 19-20 psi, even on stock tune and not harm the turbo, provided that you are running stock tune and allow it to close the throttle body after about 5,800 rpm. This reduces air flow, controls boost and keeps EGT's below 1500 F. This will allow the turbo to operate optimally within its efficiency range and not overheat the center shaft or turn the turbo compressor side into a furnace. 2. Many of us have been running catless dp/rp's on stock tune with the stock K04 with no problems whatsoever. As you probably know, the combo of a good intake and a good catless dp/rp will raise boost levels to the 17-18 psi range, but the stock ECU does still start closing the throttle body at 5,800 rpm, so all is good and safe. I've been running this way since a few months after I got this '08 MS3 new in the spring of '08 and now have almost 4,700 very hard aggressive miles on the car. And no, I do not smoke. 3. Step up to a tune: I'm now running the mild Hypertech tune and have had it on the car for about the last 9,000 miles. With this tune, I'm now seeking 20 psi and a steady 19-20 psi target with no spikes, no boost creep or overboost, with a taper to about 16 at my 5,800 rpm shift point and a steady gradual decline in boost after that if I decide to stay in the thottle. So, performance wise, with these modest mods I have run consistent 13.4 quarters at 106 at sea level with crappy 2.2 60 ft's because I'm still shitty at launching fwd. I have a YouTube posted 12.5 second 40-120 mph video (Google msms3 to find it), all before adding the HT tune. I've not been back to the track since adding the tune as my rear motor mount is stock, is now "wallowed out" and due to be replaced before tracking the car again. I'm probably a tenth or two quicker now. The problem is not the turbo. It is the shitty PCV system on this car producing excessive crankcase pressure. I run full synthetic Mobile 1 5w30 year round and change it religiously every 3,000 miles. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I got "Superman" turbo seals, hell, I don't know. But my experience with the K04 at my mod level has been extremely favorable. If I ever plan to build more power (I've not dynoed, but based on track times, I estimate I'm at the 270-280 whp level and about 300 lbs of torque), I'd go big turbo. But if I do so, I'd have to give up the quick spool up, instantaneous, no boost lag response I so love in a daily driver. I've run nice Garrett T4 variants on other applications. While I liked the power, I did not like the horrible boost lag and lack of low speed power and responsiveness. I have absolutely no reason call the K04 a POS. It is not. And within its limits is a very good choice for this car and for an upgrade for the 1.8L VW and Audi applications.

well said

[tabo]

coming from the vw scene i can attest to what msms3 has said.
the stock turbo's on the VAG 1.8t is a k03 and the very popular "cheap" hp mod is swapping that out for the k04.

again the faster turbo spool is what attracts the buyers, and the almost instant turbo surge that you get from the "smaller" turbo.
so for me to hear that the stock k04 sucks, that shit's blasphemy!!

[toolu]

The k03/k04 have been good turbos for their applications. Consumers want quick spool and for a large part don't care about above 6k rpm. With that said it is disapointing the amount of Mazda K04's that are smoking. No one seems able to truly, with proof, be able to say how much of the problem is turbo design vs. Mazda engine design. I would be curious to see a smoking Mazda k04 CHRA be put in to a VW 1.8 and see what happened.

[scriccs]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 I don't know where all these old wives tales and misinformation or downright wrong information is coming from regarding the K04 turbo. The turbo is optimally sized for our car on stock application and for up to about 300 whp, which is as far as most guys want to go on the stock turbo. It is small for a reason - lightning fast spool up, absence of turbo lag and huge and immediate torque - strong and flat all across the power band. The limitations on the turbo have to do not with maximum boost, but maximum boost at high rpm. For instance, it was the Neuspeed upgrade K04 for the 1.8 VW-Audi where it was discovered that Neuspeed's tune was too aggressive for the turbo's compressor map. These are facts, not speculation or wild uninformed rumor: Read the separate thread on the Neuspeed experience here and you will see that 1. The K04 has a very tiny 5 mm center shaft, hardened with inconel 2. The center shaft can handle exhaust gas temperatures at the housing of up to 1500 degrees F, with no problem. However, once you get above that temp, the shaft softens, sags and results in excessive wear on the journal bearings and eventual turbo failure. 3. 1500 degrees F. happens when boost exceeds 15 psi at engine operation under full load above 6,000 rpm on the 1.8 L engine. This will be a little different on our slightly larger displacement engine but not much. 4. The K04 will produce excellent boost and power at boost levels as high as 19-20 psi from 3,000 rpm up to about 5,500 rpm, but must then taper down to 15 psi or lower after this to protect the turbo. 5. Neuspeed had a rash of turbo failures, paid a ton of money for an outside engineering firm to do the root cause analysis of the failures and found out the above info. As a result, they revised their ECU mapping so as to prevent boost over 15 psi at engine speeds above 6,000 rpm and have solved the problem. Now, applying this to our 2.3 L DISI engine, we know: 1. You can, indeed, safely run 19-20 psi, even on stock tune and not harm the turbo, provided that you are running stock tune and allow it to close the throttle body after about 5,800 rpm. This reduces air flow, controls boost and keeps EGT's below 1500 F. This will allow the turbo to operate optimally within its efficiency range and not overheat the center shaft or turn the turbo compressor side into a furnace. 2. Many of us have been running catless dp/rp's on stock tune with the stock K04 with no problems whatsoever. As you probably know, the combo of a good intake and a good catless dp/rp will raise boost levels to the 17-18 psi range, but the stock ECU does still start closing the throttle body at 5,800 rpm, so all is good and safe. I've been running this way since a few months after I got this '08 MS3 new in the spring of '08 and now have almost 4,700 very hard aggressive miles on the car. And no, I do not smoke. 3. Step up to a tune: I'm now running the mild Hypertech tune and have had it on the car for about the last 9,000 miles. With this tune, I'm now seeking 20 psi and a steady 19-20 psi target with no spikes, no boost creep or overboost, with a taper to about 16 at my 5,800 rpm shift point and a steady gradual decline in boost after that if I decide to stay in the thottle. So, performance wise, with these modest mods I have run consistent 13.4 quarters at 106 at sea level with crappy 2.2 60 ft's because I'm still shitty at launching fwd. I have a YouTube posted 12.5 second 40-120 mph video (Google msms3 to find it), all before adding the HT tune. I've not been back to the track since adding the tune as my rear motor mount is stock, is now "wallowed out" and due to be replaced before tracking the car again. I'm probably a tenth or two quicker now. The problem is not the turbo. It is the shitty PCV system on this car producing excessive crankcase pressure. I run full synthetic Mobile 1 5w30 year round and change it religiously every 3,000 miles. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe I got "Superman" turbo seals, hell, I don't know. But my experience with the K04 at my mod level has been extremely favorable. If I ever plan to build more power (I've not dynoed, but based on track times, I estimate I'm at the 270-280 whp level and about 300 lbs of torque), I'd go big turbo. But if I do so, I'd have to give up the quick spool up, instantaneous, no boost lag response I so love in a daily driver. I've run nice Garrett T4 variants on other applications. While I liked the power, I did not like the horrible boost lag and lack of low speed power and responsiveness. I have absolutely no reason call the K04 a POS. It is not. And within its limits is a very good choice for this car and for an upgrade for the 1.8L VW and Audi applications.

Great write up, thanks.

[Obey the Speed]

Thanks for all the replies. Some good conversation going on. The reason was asking is because I am building a race car that will be turbo'ed. I think that this turbo on the speed would also be a good match up for this car and its purpose so I wanted to find a turbo with the same specs for it.

Car: 93 VW Fox
Purpose: Mostly AX and some track

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Obey the Speed Thanks for all the replies. Some good conversation going on. The reason was asking is because I am building a race car that will be turbo'ed. I think that this turbo on the speed would also be a good match up for this car and its purpose so I wanted to find a turbo with the same specs for it. Car: 93 VW Fox Purpose: Mostly AX and some track

So, if I understand correctly, you are thinking of using the K04 on a VW engine. The K04 for our Mazdaspeed 3 is probably not going to be quite the same as one for the 1.8L VW-Audi application and probably does not have the same flange bolt pattern. But basic operating principles would apply. I think as along as you keep it away from high boost above 6,000 rpm, you'll be happy.

I would guess you would be wanting to install a turbo version of the 1.8 in the light little Fox body and upgrade from K03 to the K04. Neuspeed has been down this road and seems to have the expertise to get the kind of result you are looking for. That combo ought to be an AX track terror that you could really throw around with authority and stay on boost well with the rapid spool up and minimal lag. Here is the link to their complete conversion kit for the 1.8 turbo which includes all parts and their re-tuned chip upgrade:

K04 Turbo Upgrade : Neuspeed®

[Obey the Speed]

Thanks for the info and link.

However, I dont want to put the K04 in the fox. I want to put a different turbo that is the same size (trim, A/R) or close to the k04 that will give me similar characteristics, some of which were listed above.

As far as the engine, it will ultimately be a 2.1/20V (2.0 bored and increased stroke)

[Mazda$peed3Demon]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx all I know is you have no idea about this car....... keep telling yourself everything will be ok when you buy a modded car.... it's a FACT that our POS turbo will smoke once you put a DP on the car. mine never did until I installed one.. if that thing makes 327 to the wheels on a unicorn dyno then I bet it smokes at long red lights and long waits at the drive thru. good luck and BTW you don't know shit.

Min is pushing 20 at the manifold and i dont smoke

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by Mazda$peed3Demon Min is pushing 20 at the manifold and i dont smoke

Grave digger.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[jeffdevo]

My turbo may be shot, not looking to go Big turbo, want something that will be better than stock but not over the top.

any suggestions.

I read an S1 turbo may be a good alternative any other recommendations?

[mxlplx71]

s3 bolts in just as easy

[Fobio]

A few of us compete in our local Time Attack events, and our regional and FIA-sanctioned Ontario Time Attack requires us to register a PIP-schedule to penalize highly modded cars. Since most of us on MSF are looking to ditch the K04 vs. upgrading, no one really cares about the specs of our Warner-Hitachi variant K04. Here's what I've found so far, since this thread has the most appropriate title. These were enough to to confirm my car with the GTX3076R and how many PIP's I had to take.

OEM/Stock MS3 K04
Compressor Wheel:
Inducer - 46mm
Exducer - 60mm

And as posted above:

Turbine Wheel
79 trim
50mm

[ouchmonkey]

@MSMS3; Thanks for the write up.

[MSMS3]

Since another "like" or "thanks" was added today to my lengthy post in this thread discussing the facts on the K04 stock turbo in our cars, it is prudent for me to update, based on several years of experience.

It is now well-established that the stock K04 can produce some secondary issues on stock tune if pushed too hard.

1. The stock fuel pump is marginal. If you are going to raise boost, upgrading the pump or its internals to maintain pressure under high load is mandatory.

2. Running a high flow 3" downpipe and racepipe, even if catted, especially if catless, will overtax the fuel pump. It will also produce some nasty spikes in boost on the stock tune that may be unsafe.

For these two reasons, please upgrade your high pressure fuel pump internals and run some kind of aftermarket tune if pushing the K04 to higher than stock boost levels, and if running a high flow 3" dp/rp get a tuning solution. AP, Versatune, properly mapped, or even my choice, plug and play Hypertech, will combine with these mods to keep the K04 within safe limits and with the dp/rp make very good safe power gains, pretty much maxing out the capabilities of the stock turbo on pump gas.

[BHM Mike]

MSMS 3, was researching for a MS 6 rebuild and came across your posts. Very informative. Not many, if any, tuners in Birmingham, AL. Was going to use remanufactured OEM long block, then add Garrett turbo over stock, upgrde intercooler and intake, then add better downpipe. You seemed to emphacize a better fuel pump. Would love to pick your brain.

[sheston]

Most of his brain is already on this site :-)

[WrightStuff]

I would also like to find a spec sheet for the K04 turbo. My speed just shit the bed hard and I'm replacing the K04 that is trashed with a BNR S3. Conveniently I can still use the turbo. I'm at school for mechanical engineering and I need a pretty complex piece to model in solidworks, so I'm going to use the K04 I pulled out last weekend. Someone mentioned above that the compressor specs are on this site but I've not been able to find them. Any links or other help are mighty appreciated.

I'll also need to come up with some improvements on the K04 so if you have any suggestions on simple additions/changes that would be super! I noticed that corksport had a good comparison sheet of their upgraded turbo to the K04 that I'll probably use for improvement ideas.

Thanks

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by WrightStuff I would also like to find a spec sheet for the K04 turbo. My speed just shit the bed hard and I'm replacing the K04 that is trashed with a BNR S3. Conveniently I can still use the turbo. I'm at school for mechanical engineering and I need a pretty complex piece to model in solidworks, so I'm going to use the K04 I pulled out last weekend. Someone mentioned above that the compressor specs are on this site but I've not been able to find them. Any links or other help are mighty appreciated. I'll also need to come up with some improvements on the K04 so if you have any suggestions on simple additions/changes that would be super! I noticed that corksport had a good comparison sheet of their upgraded turbo to the K04 that I'll probably use for improvement ideas. Thanks

Start here:

Super-Cheater K04

K04 Differences: K0422-582 vs. K0422-881 / K0422-882

Try searching the site for more info if needed.