Swapped out Turboshart BPV for CS BPV - interesting result

[dale_gribble]

See if you guys can help me solve this. I have never been a big fan of the Turboshart; it's a modular design so it can leak at the base, at the bypass outlet, and at the head. Plus, it uses a flat paper gasket instead of an o-ring at the mounting base, so it assumes the bypass valve AND mounting flange are completely flat.

I knew the turboshart was leaking at one point, so I pulled it apart and sealed all threaded connections a while back. Anyways, I have been wanting to dump it for a while, so I got the CS BPV. I was already a fan since I beta tested one but sold it since I had turboshart and CS BPV and didn't need both. Fuel trims were stable with turboshart and it held boost reliably to 25 psi, so I didn't think anything about it.

Here's the mystery. I put the CS BPV on. Instantly, my fuel trims/AFRs all shifted about 10-15% positive (lean on AFRs @ wot, higher flow) after resetting computer and driving for 50 miles or so. I immediately and naturally suspected a leak at the BPV, recirc tube or base. I built and put on the boost leak tester and actually pressurized the intake system to 25psi; it all held air; as a matter of fact, it was still pressurized after about 15 minutes. So, no leaks whatsoever.

I then swapped on the stocker, reset the computer, leak tested and drove for a while. Same thing, +10% shift in fuel trims. So, the stocker and CS BPV acted the same and the turboshart trims down which indicates something different with the turboshart.

I never went back to the turboshart and pressure tested to confirm but The turboshart was leaking somewhere. At this point, I'm not sure it was at the flange or threaded fasteners (external) or maybe even the piston was allowing air past the seat when closed (internal). I am thinking the piston was leaking internally. I have to imagine if it was leaking externally, and I swapped to a non-leaking one, the CL fuel trims would have gone - since no air would be sneaking in at vacuum anymore.

Anyways, fuck turboshart. If you have one, you should just dump it.

EDIT:

For full disclosure, I should be more specific. This is the bypass valve I have been using for like 3+ years. It's the STREETUNIT branded turbosmart unit (TS-0997-1009).

[LumberJack]

Just because you've had a bad experience with Turbosmart doesn't mean everyone else feels the same regarding their products. I did work for them for some time, and they have quite possibly the strictest and tightest QC that I've ever seen.

I personally and have recommended a few others who are still running and making very size able power on a Turbosmart Race port without a single hiccup.
( I've personally pressured tested a race port to 143psi before it started leaking, they make very high quality parts )

Everyone is entitled to there own opinions, but just because you think it's bad Russ, doesn't mean everyone should dump their products.

NOTE: This is coming from someone who left voluntarily due to very poor in office atmosphere ( what they did to me was inexcusable, won't go into detail ) and a jackass of a GM and I still have great things to say about their products.

[dale_gribble]

Fair enough. Something was wrong with my bpv. My experience nor opinion does not illustrate the experience that others may have.

I know they're a big company and big in the space. Maybe I'll see if they want to take a look at it to root cause.

[LumberJack]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Fair enough. Something was wrong with my bpv. My experience nor opinion does not illustrate the experience that others may have. I know they're a big company and big in the space. Maybe I'll see if they want to take a look at it to root cause.

They absolutely will, that is also something they're very good about is looking at a product for failure and warranty.

The company is actually Australian based and the US HQ is in Rancho Cucamonga where all product is shipped to vendors from and warranty work is performed at.

[TiGraySpeed6]

It's funny, I had problems with mine too, and know two other locals that both ended up having to ditch their TS's as well- all three TS valves were leaking, getting after fire and odd fuel trims. Swapping in a stock BPV to test and symptoms went away, and returned when the TS valves were reinstalled again. Swapping in different after market valves resolved the issue for all three.


I'll agree tho that it could be any manufacturer- We've all seen folks that have had issues with HKS, GFB and several others as well, yet I'm very happy with the GFB I'm running currently.

I think the big take away here is more along the lines of simply not playing favorites when troubleshooting.

[Easter Bunny]

Buys streetunit branded bpv



Complains about quality.

[MS3Shadow]

well theres your problem, it's a StreetUnit BPV

[Boost_creep]

I ran the TurboSmart valve twice on my car (went to a forge, and got tired of the clashing). Both times, the valve performed great for me. I also used their lubricant, and serviced the valve every other oil change. It's very possible that some others are not doing this, and causing excessive wear on the piston. That could cause the leaks that some were seeing.

Just a thought.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow well theres your problem, it's a StreetUnit BPV

I used the same unit from 2010 until 2014, including one year with a GTX30 turbo tuned at about 24-25PSI at that time. When I replaced it with the Cobb XLE there was no change in the fuel trims, only in how the car was driving at low speeds because of the softer spring setting in the XLE which made the car less hysterical at low speeds in the lower gears at low throttle input (say, moving in 1st or second around 1200-1500rpm in a parking lot or on bumper to bumper traffic).

However, when I replaced the Turbosmart the rubber o-ring that was sealing the top cover somehow became longer after a while and it was a true pain to put it back when I was lubing the piston (I was always turbosmart oil) and probably in time it could lead to boost leaks.
Other than that (and I could easily replace that o-ring) it was a decent unit, really. Easy to maintain, was providing decent throttle response, was holding boost fine, and I'm not sure in my case the upgrade to the XLE worth the money but at least I switched to a supposedly better unit.

[MSMS3]

Perhaps the lesson to be learned from this is that the stock BPV works extremely well, at least up to 25 psi and that there is no real need to spend money on something else?

That's my take on the whole BPV thing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. For most of us, the stock valve works extremely well. I'm still using mine at 116,000 miles with boost in the 18-19 psi range on the stock K04.

I can't speak to big turbo needs, of course, but a huge number of perfectly fine stock BPV's got shelved at a huge cumulative cost for supposedly "better" valves for no discernible improvement in performance and in many cases less.

[dale_gribble]

A stocker will not work up to 25psi. Agree, stock valve is sufficient <20psi and the best choice for most, but those guys are all gonna start leaking somewhere around 21-23psi. When my stocker was on for troubleshooting a few days ago, it wouldn't hold over 21psi. My buddies was leaking around 20.

When mid or BT, the stocker just won't cut it. I guess a few guys have modded the stocker to hold higher pressure.

I should have tried machining off the Streetunit branding. Maybe that was the problem.

[mituc]

BTW, this is something I don't know and I'm not sure I experienced: what are the symptoms of the BPV not being able to cope with the desired boost level and starting to recirculate in boost?

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble A stocker will not work up to 25psi. Agree, stock valve is sufficient <20psi and the best choice for most, but those guys are all gonna start leaking somewhere around 21-23psi. When my stocker was on for troubleshooting a few days ago, it wouldn't hold over 21psi. My buddies was leaking around 20. When mid or BT, the stocker just won't cut it. I guess a few guys have modded the stocker to hold higher pressure. I should have tried machining off the Streetunit branding. Maybe that was the problem.

Lol.

But seriously, I only know that the stocker holds to 21-22. I was seeing spikes up to that level when I had a overboost issue that I resolved. My assumption (you know how those are) was that in your earlier post where you successfully boost leak tested up to 25 with the CS, that when you swapped to the stocker and also did not have a leak that you were up to the same boost level. Maybe that was just street driving and boost was not WOT to target boost levels?

[sheston]

I ran 27 to 28 psi on the stocker BPV, don't think it was leaking. I bought a Synapse hoping for some free hp, didn't find it. Still run the same boost profile. That profile is everything I can get out of the K04, if it was leaking, boost would have gone up with the Synapse.

I did do the mod to help it hold pressure. Maybe that works amazing?