Turbo Manifold.....

[mrjoshyman]

My next mod on my list was going to be the Cobb DP, but since that is now months away I figure I'll go with a turbo manifold.

So the choices seem to be: PG, DNP & PT-P manifolds.

How do they compare to one another? Will I have any issues once I get the Cobb AP?

[xcoldricex]

pt-p is the dnp only ported and ceramic coated.

so pt-p should be better than the dnp. haha

[mrjoshyman]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex pt-p is the dnp only ported and ceramic coated. so pt-p should be better than the dnp. haha

hmmm...i had a feeling it was.

so is the porting & ceramic coating worth the extra $150?

[freebird_78]

What ever happened with the Steedspeed manifold?

[mrjoshyman]

Originally Posted by freebird_78 What ever happened with the Steedspeed manifold?

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-manifold.html

seems like he's workin on it, but not ETA when it will be tested and ready to go..

[xcoldricex]

yeah... hmmm

[Lymerock]

steedspeed is so far off the radar, i feel bad for anyone considering it

Haltech mentioned the DNP is a decent bit heavier than the PG
both are 2mm, but the DNP is SS-321 and the PG mani is SUS-304
I had a V1 PG mani and had fit issues, but the part itself was amazing and the performance was instantly noticable in all gears and virtually any RPM
I sold my V1 and bought a V2 in hopes it fits better with my 3.25 ETS

Laloosh's review of the PG Mani http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...pressions.html


so in a nutshell, if yo want something in 2008, forget steedspeed
DNP is solid, no problems, PG is solid as well, but until someone fits a V2 (mine still sits on my floor, dread says his goes in this weekend) its up in the air if its the better of the two deals. If the fit is fine, id say PG is the way to go, and I think thre is still a lifetime on cracks? i seem to remember reading that

(edit) forgot to mention there is the Creative Performance manifold also, but thats basically custom stuff, but its NICE!

[steedspeed]

Originally Posted by freebird_78 What ever happened with the Steedspeed manifold?

You just have to order one at this point. SU ust took a bunch off me.

Total of 23 manifolds either delivered or in production currently. Box of steel billets are going to be V-band wastegate flanges by the end of today. 6 finished manifolds at the back will be coated tomorrow. 20 x stock flanges and I'll be making the T3 versions next week and they are interchangable on the same manifold at any time if you want to upgrade. The lump to the right of the turbo flange is the EGT port which is a standard feature.

BTW all but 2 are sold and I'm ordering more steel next week to start on the next 30.

[xcoldricex]

so based on a quick search the ss-321 is better than the sus-304 - because it has a lower risk of weld decay due to addition of titanium

[superskaterxes]

last time i checked 304 was always better then 321. the lower the number the higher the quality of the steel

[xcoldricex]

321 vs 304 Stainless for turbo systems - Viper Alley - Dodge Viper Forum

Here is a cut and paste from the Burns Stainless site: I will highlight some interesting things that can shed some insight to some questions people have asked regarding the differences between mild steel, 321 and 304 stainless: Stainless steel is a material that we wish never was labeled "stainless" because it can do so much more than simply resist rust. The origins of stainless steel date back to the early 1900s when an English metallurgist developed a type of steel for making knives that would not rust. Technically, "Stainless Steel" is strictly a trade name applied to what are known as corrosion-resistant steels. It is a fabulous material that outperforms mild and alloy steels in so many different applications in racing that no other material can match it, and all racers should consider it as a vital element in their fabricating efforts. However, stainless steel does have some unique properties that the fabricator needs to know about before launching into a project. An interesting characteristic of many types of stainless steel is that they are non-magnetic , a quality that makes them very important in the aerospace industry. Compared to mild steel, stainless steel has superior high temperature characteristics . It is an excellent material for headers and exhaust systems, or any application where high heat is encountered. Stainless steel is similar to mild and alloy steels; it is an alloy of iron that contains at least 12% chromium. This high chromium content retards corrosion giving the steel its "stainless" quality. There are many alloys of stainless steel, which are broken down into two basic categories: Chromium-nickel grades Straight chromium grades The chromium-nickel grades are the more common stainless steels used in race car fabrication compared to the straight chromium types, due to the nickel content which provides excellent weldability and corrosion resistance . Also, this nickel improves some mechanical properties such as fatigue strength, toughness and ductility. People sometimes refer to stainless steels based on their chromium and nickel content: for instance, 18-8 stainless has 18% chromium and 8% nickel in it. Stainless steel typically has a rather low carbon content, in the range of .08% to .15%, and sometimes as low as .03%. The carbon is needed for hardness, but it also can cause the stainless to become susceptible to corrosion at high temperatures. What happens is this: when chromium-nickel steel is heated to a temperature range of 800° to 1590°F, the carbon in the steel combines with chromium to form chromium carbides. This transformation is called carbide precipitation and reduces the corrosion resistance of the steel . The chromium is reduced in this heat-affected area and makes the steel subject to what is known as intergranular corrosion. Some stainless steels are known as low carbon grades to minimize this carbide precipitation; others, such as 321, are special alloys that reduce carbide precipitation by combining and stabilizing the chromium at elevated temperatures . You may have heard Smokey Yunick talk about maintaining high exhaust velocity and increase scavenging by covering headers with a thermal wrap. In addition, there are companies that coat headers with a thermal barrier, typically some type of ceramic formula, in order to keep the heat inside the exhaust system. Stainless steel performs this function without the need for add-ons because it has a much lower coefficient of thermal conductivity, thereby keeping more heat inside and transmitting it to the header outlet. Radiated heat is perhaps the most important reason to wrap or ceramic coat the headers to protect the car and the driver from excessive, fatiguing high temperatures . By contrast, quite a bit more heat stays inside the stainless header tubes and does not get passed into the surrounding air . By not allowing the contraction of the cooling gases as they flow down the tubes, more exhaust velocity is retained which promotes better scavenging at the collector. This retention of velocity increases the overall header efficiency. You've probably seen Indy cars with their enclosed engine compartments and thermal clam-shell enclosures around their turbocharger headers. They must thermally wrap their exhaust pipes just so the radiant heat off the tubes won't cause fires or melt any critical systems. In this case headers made out of mild steel would completely fail and break apart due to the severe heat retention, let alone scale and send death particles into the turbocharger, ruining the turbine blades . 321 stainless steel has excellent high temperature fatigue resistance in this enclosed application and does a darn good job of living in this hostile environment better than any other material except the ultra-high nickel content steels ( such an Inconel ), which are hard to find, very difficult to work with and extremely expensive. These many characteristics, such as superior heat retention properties, high temperature fatigue resistance, and to a lesser extent, the cosmetic value of a non-rusting finish, combine to make stainless steel an ideal choice for headers and exhaust systems . Such a system will produce more horsepower and last "'til the cows come home". It is an excellent solution. Now that you are sold on the merits of stainless steel, there are a number of things you need to know about the different types available before you launch into a header and exhaust system project. A three-digit numerical classification system is used throughout the industry. The racer needs to be familiar with only one of these three-digit series within the system - the 300 series. They offer the fabricator a wide array of choices, from ornamental quality up through the highest-temperature and closest-tolerance aircraft quality. Within the 300 series of stainless steels, there are four types that are suitable, available and cost effective for the racer. These are 304, 316L, 321, and 347. 321 and 347 are known as stabilized grades of stainless. These are alloyed with either titanium (321) or columbium (347), both of which have a much stronger affinity for carbon than does chromium at elevated temperatures. This eliminates carbide precipitation leaving the chromium where it belongs for corrosion protection...remember our discussion of intergranular corrosion? Both 321 and 347 are top choices for exhaust headers, especially turbocharger systems and rotary engines. Since 321 is much more available than 347, that leaves 321 as the first choice, with no sacrifice in needed qualities . 316L is an extra low carbon (ELC) grade of stainless that has only .03% carbon, making less carbon available to precipitate with the chromium. It is used extensively in marine exhausts where salt water corrosion mixed with diesel exhaust particulates and electrolysis create such a horrible environment that even other grades of stainless cower and run away! 304 is the most inexpensive and available stainless in the 300 series. It is suitable for normally-aspirated header applications, and has been successfully used by many racing teams. It does not have the high temperature fatigue resistance that 321 does , but is considerably less costly and much more available . Most 304 tubing these days has the dual designation of 304/304L. Practically speaking, there are overlapping applications of 304 and 321 stainless in header construction, but knowing you've got the insurance of the aircraft-grade 321 for the job is definitely worth consideration of the extra cost... if your application requires it. Stainless steels come in both tubing and pipe sizes. Since certain pipe sizes are almost identical in dimension to tubing sizes, pipe may sometimes be substituted for tubing, and vice versa. Numerous wall thicknesses are available, but for headers, normally .049" (18-gauge) to .065" (16-gauge) is used. Copyright © 2004 Burns Stainless LLC All Rights Reserved In summary, the stainless steel is an alloy of iron that contains at least 12% chromium and some nickel for increased weldability, corrosion resistance, fatigue strength and ductility. Chromium gives stainless the "Stainless/anticorrosion properties". Stainless typically has a realitvely low carbon content. There is a certain amount of carbon needed for hardness, but at the 800-1600 degree tempertaure range, the carbon and chromium combine to form chromium carbides which detracts from the pure chromium's stainless anti-corrosion properties. 321's alloy composition stabilizes the chromium at elevated temperatures. 304 is more suited for naturally-aspirated applications than turbo applications according to the Burns catalog. There is a chart at the end of this page that shows the coefficient of thermal expansion rates and coefficient of thermal conductivity for all three: http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...s_article.html So in a nutshell, 321 should be the only material of choice for any turbo header application for the reasons listed above. :thumb: Reply With Quote

[udontknowjack]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex 321 vs 304 Stainless for turbo systems - Viper Alley - Dodge Viper Forum

oh great....i got the pg manifold....people tell me avoid dnp

[xcoldricex]

why'd they tell you to avoid dnp?
pg v2 has fitment issues too?

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...10793-wtf.html

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex why'd they tell you to avoid dnp? pg v2 has fitment issues too? http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...10793-wtf.html

thats super super super lame
so lame, I dont have the words
V2 was suposed to be a fix, if it aint fixed.... PG got some splainin since this is now my 2nd PG mani and the only reason I went with it was because it was suposed to be fixed

Originally Posted by udontknowjack oh great....i got the pg manifold....people tell me avoid dnp

maybe we can get big discounts on a fmic with the purchase of a defective mani



today is a sad day

[xcoldricex]

also was sad to read that most people feel the exhaust note changes for the worse with all manifolds..

[udontknowjack]

alot of people i talk to said dnp cracked....pg manifold have life time warranty.!?

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack alot of people i talk to said dnp cracked....pg manifold have life time warranty.!?

I bought the DNP when it was first released, and have no cracks.. And it fit perfect..

The exaust note does change for the worse with the manifold, but the performance more than makes up for it..

[xcoldricex]

sigh. guess it'll just be a waiting game then.

[nighthawk358]

i'd say go with the Creative Performance

[nighthawk358]

Their going to make me a downpipe. Great company

[Death-From-A-Mile]

SSInstaller what do you mean by the exhaust note changed for the worse? I installed my PG V2 yesterday and love the way it sounds. I already had a TBE and to me it sounds much meaner.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by nighthawk358 i'd say go with the Creative Performance

I bought my new manifold, DP, and wastegate from CP, Carlos does great work, and is very easy to work with..

Originally Posted by IDRVSLO SSInstaller what do you mean by the exhaust note changed for the worse? I installed my PG V2 yesterday and love the way it sounds. I already had a TBE and to me it sounds much meaner.

I liked how the stock manifold made the exaust note sounds a little like the boxter engines. With the DNP it sounds alot more like your average 4-cylinder exaust..

[Death-From-A-Mile]

Mine sounds nothing like a regular 4 cylinder. It sounds even more agressive and bubbyly. What exhaust are you running?

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by IDRVSLO Mine sounds nothing like a regular 4 cylinder. It sounds even more agressive and bubbyly. What exhaust are you running?

Cp-e catless DP, Cp-e 3" catback--the original one with one 12" resonator and no muffler..
Don't get me wrong it sounds good at idle, but at WOT it sounds alot more like a 4cylinder than it did before..

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by IDRVSLO Mine sounds nothing like a regular 4 cylinder. It sounds even more agressive and bubbyly. What exhaust are you running?

are you running a tmic with the v2 mani?
how is fitment?

[superskaterxes]

any one have a vid or sound clip of the exhaust with a mani?

[Lymerock]

^^ truth
I cant wait to get mine on, I just hope, somehow, someway it doesnt hit

[Death-From-A-Mile]

Im running a FMIC so I had no worries. I cant imagine that they didnt fix the problem.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by Lymerock ^^ truth I cant wait to get mine on, I just hope, somehow, someway it doesnt hit

i just talked to ken,he is going to be shipping me a new coupler this week,if you do have problems just do what i did and wrap it in header wrap and call ken for a coupler.

[mrjoshyman]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack alot of people i talk to said dnp cracked....pg manifold have life time warranty.!?

people said? got ne names? or ne threads that show this? seems like the 321 steel is preferable...surprised to hear this.

Originally Posted by SSinstaller I bought the DNP when it was first released, and have no cracks.. And it fit perfect.. The exaust note does change for the worse with the manifold, but the performance more than makes up for it..

did you have any exhaust mods b4? DP? TP? Full TBE?

Originally Posted by SSinstaller I bought my new manifold, DP, and wastegate from CP, Carlos does great work, and is very easy to work with.. I liked how the stock manifold made the exaust note sounds a little like the boxter engines. With the DNP it sounds alot more like your average 4-cylinder exaust..

Hows the CP manifold working out? same bad exhaust note as DNP? How much was it?

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman did you have any exhaust mods b4? DP? TP? Full TBE? Hows the CP manifold working out? same bad exhaust note as DNP? How much was it?

I had the full Cp-e turbo back with the catless dp.

I havent got the CP manifold installed yet. The car is a t the shop right now waiting getting the motor swap and ALOT of other parts installed.. Everything that's getting done is listed here:http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ed-arrive.html


The CP manifold is $950 with the ceramic coating.

[mrjoshyman]

$950 for a ceramic coated manifold? Thats $250 over the ceramic coated DNP manifold that PT-P offers. What makes it all that great?

[08 SSM MS3]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman $950 for a ceramic coated manifold? Thats $250 over the ceramic coated DNP manifold that PT-P offers. What makes it all that great?

External wastegate

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman $950 for a ceramic coated manifold? Thats $250 over the ceramic coated DNP manifold that PT-P offers. What makes it all that great?

Carlos's work is on an entirely different level than DNP. The transitions and collector are way better on the CP parts. It's very easy to tell how much time he puts into his work.

[nighthawk358]

Carlos is a great guy. Good thing he is local to me hehe. I may talk with him also to make a FMIC in a near future. CP FTW!! When I get my Dp made I will post pictures of it.

[mrjoshyman]

looks like a quality piece.... for a guy whos not looking to make much more than 300 @ the wheels, do you think its worth it going with the external wastegate?

[Lymerock]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman looks like a quality piece.... for a guy whos not looking to make much more than 300 @ the wheels, do you think its worth it going with the external wastegate?

is it also worth it to you at twice the price?

This manifold is perhaps the first part made for our cars that I dont feel I need right now
if someone is going balls out, then this is the manifold to get, if you are poor and have too many bills like me, you go the poor mans PG route.

I feel funny even saying a part is beyond what I need/want

[jhershorin]

carlos is by far one of the worlds top fabricators. without him my turbo 3 never would have been what it was

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by mrjoshyman looks like a quality piece.... for a guy whos not looking to make much more than 300 @ the wheels, do you think its worth it going with the external wastegate?

Unless ATP redesigns thier internal wastegate housing it looks like your going to have to go external if you want Full throttle and no boost creep.

Originally Posted by Lymerock is it also worth it to you at twice the price? This manifold is perhaps the first part made for our cars that I dont feel I need right now if someone is going balls out, then this is the manifold to get, if you are poor and have too many bills like me, you go the poor mans PG route. I feel funny even saying a part is beyond what I need/want

Carlos also makes an external wastegate manifold that keeps the turbo very near the stock location. It's only $750 IIRC...but when you add the $400 wastegate it's still much more expensive.

[steven88]

how hard is it to install a turbo manifold?