Turbo or Waste Gate Shit the Bed???

[Rcimp]

2007 Speed3, 140K miles. Car was running fine down the highway, at 70MPH upshifted to leave an ass tailgating me. When I hit the throttle I hear a "pop" then absolutely no boost. I thought I blew the motor. However, the car runs but I never get any positive boost. At wot the best I could get was -2psi and I here a much much deeper whine now. No CEL's, car runs like a non-turbo car up to 3K rpm. Fuels pressures are okay, idles okay, drives slowly okay. My suspect is the turbo has quit on me. Took off the TIC and I did not see anything, I have yet to try to spin the turbo blades, that is next as soon as I get time. I am thinking the blades won't spin.

[Natey]

How loud was the pop?
The 1st thing I'd do is check all the hoses and clamps. Use soap and water, sometimes a crack in a hose will be invisible until it's under pressure.

[Rcimp]

Pop was very quick, like firecracker pop. All boost tubes are fairly new Corksport silicone tubes, they look okay. When I removed the BOV it was shut. I thought maybe it blew and got stuck open but I am not that lucky.

Pop was just loud enough to hear in car. Not super loud.

[Scare Dem]

How do your AFR's look? I'm hoping it's an easy fix for ya.

Good luck.

[Rcimp]

Funny thing is AFR's look okay. All the engine parameters, AFR, Fuel Pressure, temperature, etc all looks okay. They care runs fine as long as I don't try to nail it. It just does not get any boost. It literally is just a regular 3 now. The cheapest way to fix it is just change the emblems on the car from Speed3 to 3 lol.

[LatinKraze]

Check the lines from the waste gate. Might have cracked a hose. Ask me how I know

[Cujo]

I was gonna say check the coupler on the throttle body. Same thing happened to me and that was the problem.

[Rcimp]

When you say coupler are you talking about the inter cooler tube that goes to the throttle body? I am waiting for it to warm up a little before I go out and start looking at this stuff. I am also going to check the diaphragm on the waste gate. I think if I can put a tube on it and apply vacuum it should hold. If it doesn't maybe that was the pop I heard?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp When you say coupler are you talking about the inter cooler tube that goes to the throttle body? I am waiting for it to warm up a little before I go out and start looking at this stuff. I am also going to check the diaphragm on the waste gate. I think if I can put a tube on it and apply vacuum it should hold. If it doesn't maybe that was the pop I heard?

You will need to apply pressure rather than vacuum.

[Cujo]

The silicone connecting the intercooler cold pipe to the throttle body. It may have just blown off.

[Rcimp]

It was connected, I have removed the intercooler looking for simple stuff like cracked tubes or tubes that blew off. All of those looked okay and were attached. My next step is to jack the car up and check the wastegate and lines to the wastegate, and then try to see if i can spin the turbo blades.

So is the wastegate open or closed by default? If it is closed by defalt and opens with pressure then I don't need to check it because I have no boost pressure at all. If it is open by default and closes with pressure then it is suspect. I would expect it to be closed by default so boost pressure can build.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp It was connected, I have removed the intercooler looking for simple stuff like cracked tubes or tubes that blew off. All of those looked okay and were attached. My next step is to jack the car up and check the wastegate and lines to the wastegate, and then try to see if i can spin the turbo blades. So is the wastegate open or closed by default? If it is closed by defalt and opens with pressure then I don't need to check it because I have no boost pressure at all. If it is open by default and closes with pressure then it is suspect. I would expect it to be closed by default so boost pressure can build.

The wastegate is closed by default via a spring and opened by pressure applied through the line going from the compressor housing to the WGA. The pressure pushes the rod through a diaphragm. The EBCS bleeds off some of that pressure depending on voltage.

[ihasmazda]

yeah closed by default. i dont think that's the issue either but i know jack. due to your mileage i too would guess with some kind of hose, it may just have a crack that is hard to see.

[Rcimp]

Then it is safe to say the wastegate is probably not the issue here since I cannot build any boost at all. Any chance the wastgate can be stuck open, and can I tell without removing the turbo?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp Then it is safe to say the wastegate is probably not the issue here since I cannot build any boost at all. Any chance the wastgate can be stuck open, and can I tell without removing the turbo?

You can run a line to one port on the WGA and cap the other. Pressurize the line to ~10-15 psi and the arm should move. I doubt that is your issue but that is the way to rule it out.

[ihasmazda]

i think the AP would show a WGDC then ?

[Rcimp]

So maybe the small line that pressurizes the wastegate blew off or is cracked? It is either something like that of the turbo shaft has fractured. I am trying to figure out what the pop was that I heard. I am hoping for the cracked / broken hose.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp So maybe the small line that pressurizes the wastegate blew off or is cracked? It is either something like that of the turbo shaft has fractured. I am trying to figure out what the pop was that I heard. I am hoping for the cracked / broken hose.

If the shaft snapped in that thing you would know lol. That would sound like a bag of metal marbles being tossed into an industrial fan.

[Rcimp]

Well that makes me feel a lot better, it's got to be a hose or diaphragm somewhere then.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp Well that makes me feel a lot better, it's got to be a hose or diaphragm somewhere then.

I would also do a boost leak test rather than a visual test. Get a cap with a valve stem and pressurize everything from the TIP back.

[Rcimp]

Yes I already have a boost test kit that I made. I was planning on doing just that. Testing TIP to TB. I bet I will here exactly where the leak is.

My old factory boost tubes were leaking (via small cracks) enough to limit my boost pressure to 13psi. After I installed the Corksport silicone boost tubes my boost has been steady at 17psi WOT. Until now lol.

[SpencerC]

Just get the soapy water. Sometimes you can't hear them but the bubbles are obvious when sprayed.

[Rcimp]

Bad news. I can see the input of the turbo and the shaft is bent when I rotate the blades and the blades look bent on the ends. Nothing rubs when I spin it but I cannot spin it very fast either. Currently in process of removing the turbo. Does the whole exhaust manifold have to come out or will the turbo squeeze out some other way?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp Bad news. I can see the input of the turbo and the shaft is bent when I rotate the blades and the blades look bent on the ends. Nothing rubs when I spin it but I cannot spin it very fast either. Currently in process of removing the turbo. Does the whole exhaust manifold have to come out or will the turbo squeeze out some other way?

That thing is fucked. You can get it out the side, but it takes some wrestling. Remove intake, battery, egr, and some odds and ends.

[Rcimp]

This just keeps getting better. Look at the crack on the exhaust side of the turbo running towards the waste gate valve and goes all the way to the stud on the top right of the picture. What causes that? I am running a CNT free flowing CAT and downpipe.

[ihasmazda]

lol that reminds me of my subaru days, the infamous wastegate crack is too common on the wrx. i think it just happens. probably heat and bad luck.

[Boostin'likeAboss]

140k miles of heating up and cooling off is a lot of stress to the metal, if that's the stock turbo I'd say you got some damn good life out of it lol

[MD1032]

Good news, your dreams of needing a reason to buy a BNR S3 have come true!

[Rcimp]

I can live with that. Just wanted to be sure I didn't have some other problem that might damage the new turbo.

[Rcimp]

I was thinking if a direct bolt in from Works Turbo Charger. Here are the specs. No mods necessary. Any one have any experience with Works?

WORK also offers a alternative replacement for your turbocharger that incorporates a Garrett GT25 CHRA installed into your compressor and turbine housings for a direct fit. The benifits include:
•Improved seal quality, no smoke!
•More robust bearing structure, more durable
•Updated turbine and compressor wheels, better response and power
•2 year warranty
•Direct fitment, no modifications necessary
•Price is $900.00 + return shipping
•Core required, does not have to be rebuidable
•Core deposit is $250.00, return your old turbo for credit
•Fast turn around, same day shipping on in stock orders!
•Stage 1 and Stage 2 performance upgrades available
•MFS (billet) compressor wheel upgrades starting at $180.00

Does the BNR S3 require any additional tuning?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp I was thinking if a direct bolt in from Works Turbo Charger. Here are the specs. No mods necessary. Any one have any experience with Works? WORK also offers a alternative replacement for your turbocharger that incorporates a Garrett GT25 CHRA installed into your compressor and turbine housings for a direct fit. The benifits include: •Improved seal quality, no smoke! •More robust bearing structure, more durable •Updated turbine and compressor wheels, better response and power •2 year warranty •Direct fitment, no modifications necessary •Price is $900.00 + return shipping •Core required, does not have to be rebuidable •Core deposit is $250.00, return your old turbo for credit •Fast turn around, same day shipping on in stock orders! •Stage 1 and Stage 2 performance upgrades available •MFS (billet) compressor wheel upgrades starting at $180.00 Does the BNR S3 require any additional tuning?

Go with the BNR. you can't use your housings anyway, since one is cracked.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by Rcimp I was thinking if a direct bolt in from Works Turbo Charger. Here are the specs. No mods necessary. Any one have any experience with Works? WORK also offers a alternative replacement for your turbocharger that incorporates a Garrett GT25 CHRA installed into your compressor and turbine housings for a direct fit. The benifits include: •Improved seal quality, no smoke! •More robust bearing structure, more durable •Updated turbine and compressor wheels, better response and power •2 year warranty •Direct fitment, no modifications necessary •Price is $900.00 + return shipping •Core required, does not have to be rebuidable •Core deposit is $250.00, return your old turbo for credit •Fast turn around, same day shipping on in stock orders! •Stage 1 and Stage 2 performance upgrades available •MFS (billet) compressor wheel upgrades starting at $180.00 Does the BNR S3 require any additional tuning?

I just put in a Works remanufactured K04 exchanged with a new stock CHRA, as mine was not rebuildable. My housing is o.k. so getting the core charge back on housing only, $100. Going this route, net cost to me was $550 plus return shipping on the core, about $27 if I recall correctly.

I did not want a bigger turbo and went that route. Turn around time was just as advertized. The replacement unit with new stock CHRA is working great. I did not go with the Garrett. I figure I can get another 108k out of the turbo and will probably either sell the car eventually or have other issues before the replacement turbo goes.

I posted another thread here on what happened to mine. Not nearly as dramatic (fractured compressor vane), but the engine sucked in the fractured part and seems unaffected. Lucky bastard I am. You too, considering the condition of the compressor vanes. They do all seem to still be on the wheel.

[Rcimp]

Out with the old, in with the new, this weekend I hope. Not sure what to do with the extra vacuum line. My old one has two lines running to the WG diaphragm, the BNR only has one port on the WG diaphragm. Not sure how to hook the vacuum lines up.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp Out with the old, in with the new, this weekend I hope. Not sure what to do with the extra vacuum line. My old one has two lines running to the WG diaphragm, the BNR only has one port on the WG diaphragm. Not sure how to hook the vacuum lines up.

Google the routing diagram. Not too complex. You tee the lines together.

[Rcimp]

MSMS3,
Works quoted me $585 plus the core since mine was cracked for a reworked K04. This did not include any of the upgrades. I figured spending an extra $300 for a turbo that was better flowing, better seals so no more smoke, was worth it. I also though about the longevity of the turbo vs a 140K mile car. But realistically, I like the car. If I blow the motor I will probably put in a new one, but built internally to handle higher boost. So far I have no plans on getting rid of my MS3, only making it faster.

[MSMS3]

Your deal is better for your purposes. Let us know how the BNR works out. New tune there for sure. If this were not my daily driver and super reliability necessary, I might use this opportunity to do the same.

One thing I observed about your photos: that crack on the exhaust side suggests that your tune may have been too aggressive. I could be wrong. There is the "Neuspeed" sticky in this section above. Those guys put on the market a K04 upgrade kit for VW's with a pretty aggressive tune. They found out that if you push the K04 too hard above 5,500 rpm, EGT's can exceed 1500 degrees F. and the turbos were failing. What happened was that the inconel treated shaft (only 5mm in diameter) softens and sags. when that EGT is exceeded. I don't know what AFR's were on those early Neuspeed tunes.

I wonder if high EGT (high boost and higher AFR's in combo) might have cracked the exhaust side and also caused the shaft to sag. Just a guess. If so, this might be a lesson for others running the K04 on tunes that might be set with target boost a bit too high or with AFR's leaned out just a bit too much.

But, in your case, now that you have the BNR it will be a non-issue in the future.

I'm only guessing, as I don't know about your AP tune. My lowly Hypertech was consciously mapped by design to keep EGTs below 1500 F. with AFR's kept pig rich for cylinder cooling. While it probably leaves a little on the table, it is safe.

I think my turbo just finally wore out at 108K on a mild tune that relies more on agressive timing and lower boost and rich AFRs. The Neuspeed report was one of the reasons I stuck with the Hypertech, that and knowing that I would not be going big turbo or running ethanol.

Let us know how the BNR works out.

[Rcimp]

Finished up the install today. Changed oil / filter, antifreeze, started right up, no leaks, lights, or groans. Warmed it up, took it out for test ride. I was gentle to let the turbo break in sort of. The car is sooooo much more responsive now. I am thoroughly impressed with this BNR S2 turbo. The car exhaust even sounds meaner if that is possible. I am going to drive it casually for a few days before I start romping on it. I can't wait, it going to be exciting.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Rcimp Finished up the install today. Changed oil / filter, antifreeze, started right up, no leaks, lights, or groans. Warmed it up, took it out for test ride. I was gentle to let the turbo break in sort of. The car is sooooo much more responsive now. I am thoroughly impressed with this BNR S2 turbo. The car exhaust even sounds meaner if that is possible. I am going to drive it casually for a few days before I start romping on it. I can't wait, it going to be exciting.

*S3 V2 there is a different turbo called the S2 that was a turd. It is no longer produced.

[Rcimp]

When I talked to Brian I asked for an S1 and he said he didn't have any and that he had S2's available. The receipt says "Mazda Speed 3/6 Stage 2 Turbocharger #3108 . If this really is a stage 2 it is by no means a turd. It is very responsive and boost comes on quick.