Fat Cat Motorsports coilovers for MS6

[Code Monkey]

***** Coilovers are ready to go, please contact Fat Cat Motorsports to place an order!!!! *****

If you see any inaccuracies below, pm me and I will fix them. As more details come in, I will update the original post, so we have everything in one place.

The most recent update is at the bottom.

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05may2012

I just talked to Shaikh and he is very excited about the possibility of making coilovers for the speed6 platform!

He is busy until the 25th, but after that he would be available to have a look at the car, measure and corner weight it, the whole nine yards. Once Shaikh has the car specs, he would offer 4 options for custom suspension, I list them from cheapest to most expensive below.

He uses Bilstein shocks as the basis for his FCM Elite coilovers, see examples for the Miata and RX-8. The way the process would work would be for you to buy Bilstein shocks (can ship them directly to FCM) and Shaikh would go from there. He recommends buying shocks for the Mazda 6 from shox.com, the contact person is Arthur, 800-683-2890.

Option 1: Revalve the shocks, you can pick lowering springs or stick to the stock ones. Estimated cost: Forgot to ask, will update later.

Option 2: Custom-tuned FTM Elite coilovers - only height adjustable. Estimated cost: upper $1800-low $2000.

Option 3: Custom-tuned FTM Elite coilovers - single adjustable. Estimated cost: high $2000-$3000.

Option 4: Cutom-tuned FTM Elite coilovers - double adjustable. Estimated cost: high $3000-$4000.

Please note those are ballpark figures, he needs to look at the car first to come up with a more accurate price.

Keep in mind that once we know the exact specs for the speed6, it will be possible to pick the desired ride frequencies, choose matching springs, pick damping forces, and Shaikh will be able to revalve shocks that will match the spring rates. Once you get the damping right, there is no need to adjust it, unless you change the natural frequencies of springs. Because of that I am inclined toward option 2 at the moment but all the options will be available.

Will talk to Sheikh about dynoing the shocks once we get a speed6 to his place. At the very least let's get all the measurements while we can, corner weights, unsprung masses, motion ratios, ....

@dot584, @razorscs, @ppe4life

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23jan2013

The FCM coilovers are almost done, thanks to @dot584; for providing the test car! Here's more info from Shaikh + some of my notes:

We've got a rear lower control arm/spring seat coming next week and we'll make an adapter out of 5" OD Delrin, as a base for one of our shortened coilover sleeves. I think it'll be a beautiful fit and a nice clean solution. For the rear springs, a 7" tapered looks like the right choice.

I'm also looking at options for changing/shortening the rear bump stop. I plan to machine a cup that will accept an FCM bump stop and hold it in place of the stock bump stop. With plastic spacers/shims dropped inside the spring perch (which will sit on the spring arm), you could make quick adjustments to the car's balance by shimming the bump stop instead of having to make a sway bar change. This is fine-tuning, obviously you need to get the balance close with springs/sways/alignment then bump stop tuning is the secondary refinement.

We'll be machining a few of the front 2.5" spring adapters (also from Delrin) plus the rears. Since I know you'll ask me the cost next here they are.

Customer-supplied shocks:
FCM Elite 3020, non-adjustable damping shock retune for stock or lowering springs, with FCM bump stops - $657

FCM-supplied shocks:
FCM Elite 3020, non-adjustable damping, fixed height setup, with FCM bump stops (re-use all stock shock mounts) - $1817 [Shaikh says this is exactly the same setup as above]
FCM Elite 3040, non-adjustable damping, height-adjustable coilover MS6 - $2627 (re-use stock front upper hats, no helpers)
FCM Elite 3140 single-adjustable - $3447 (re-use stock upper hats, no helpers)
FCM Elite 3240-R double-adjustable (with external reservoir) - $4987

A la carte options:
Coilover hardware (springs/perches/o-rings/spanner, Teflon spring spacer), 2.5" front and 70-90mm tapered rear springs and custom spring adapters - $847
Hyperco helper springs and custom helper spring adapters - $327 [That would be the all-four corner price, but I don't think rears are required, don't know until we get dot584's car tuned. So fronts only is $163.]

From the droop available with the short front spring, I'm recommending helpers. I do think they're a good idea up front, don't see them necessary in the rear but will have to see once the FCM coilovers are on the test car.

For single-adjustable coilovers, bump and rebound are coupled but rebound is usually emphasized. Depends upon the valving desired, comfort - dual purpose - race. There are 10 turns of adjustment from insanely stiff to super-Buick.

Single adjustable are effective-enough [for HPDE]. Given corner weights we can dial the compression damping to a close match on each corner. I find this the main benefit of having external reservoirs but you really need data acquisition to properly tune a double, unless you rely on our experience. A single is good for being able to tighten up race-handling and soften if needed. That said, we have a LOT of track/race customers with non-adjustables and the damping hits the sweet spot between wet vs dry grip. If you're building a serious track car, I would recommend considering the singles, however we can fit the rears due to the shock design - but we could add an external reservoir (for compression) on the rear.

ETA

Projected completion after dot584's kit depends upon when someone orders. We don't stock kits like this, we order shocks, springs, have the rest of the hardware here or machine from raw materials. So anyone ordering needs to expect a 4-6 week lead time, best case depending upon how busy we get.

We plan to have the mods to our shock assembly machine done in a couple weeks and dot584's setup ready within three. If someone commits to one of the coilover options we can machine more adapter sets at once. [my guess is this will speed up wait time]

Ride height for you ricers

I don't know yet [what is the minimum and maximum drop are]. The front sleeves will be full length so over 6" total wheel travel is easily possible. I'd aim for about 320-340mm nominal ride height while still retaining reasonable travel and ground clearance. dot584 has ground contact issues at 335 all around with H&R springs.

I appreciate the question but it immediately rubs me the wrong way - humor me as I explain why. I only design setups that are meant to be functional, so minimum drop is probably already established as a function of ground clearance. The range will be sufficient to lower more than the car can tolerate. We normally find a ride height target then I tell people +/- 1" around that. Spring rates and lengths play a factor here to get the nominal height correct.

@aggierandy; @phate;

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20aug2013

Coilovers are ready to go, please contact Fat Cat Motorsports to discuss your needs and place an order!

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23jun2014

Code Monkey's ongoing review.

[knyghtryda]

Glad someone else is talking to Shaikh as well. That man knows his stuff.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[dot584]

Any news on this? I gave it a few days but I'm just wondering. Hope it gets going soon, just let me know.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by dot584 Any news on this? I gave it a few days but I'm just wondering. Hope it gets going soon, just let me know. Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

I will give them a call tomorrow and hopefully we can get the car measured next week or so when you are available. I figured when Shaikh said he would be free the week of 25th, he really meant after Memorial Day.

[manila]

No meaning to thread jack, but I believe it's pointless to spend grands worth in suspension. You could use that money for power mods or a BT build. If you track hard everyday then maybe...
It's always good to see more performance parts in the making for our platform.

[Code Monkey]

Yes, I plan my car to be 80 percent track/20 percent street.

[dot584]

I'm just trying to help out and if the suspension is giving me the option to raise the car to a DD height then I'm sold. I'm not here to go full on race either. May get into auto-x soon.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Code Monkey]

Good new guys, @dot584 is driving to FCM next Tuesday, expect an update from him next Wednesday.

[dot584]

So Fat Cat motorsports had my car for the day. They measured the droop and weighed the car among other various things but were to busy to finish the whole thing. Shaikh was a cool guy and is really excited about this platform. He should be able to make us a great setup all dialed in for the speed 6. We didnt speak about options but he did say that Bilsten would be where we start. He would like input on height options, like how high do we want the car to be, Im sure so that they can properly locate the spring perches for a drop.

We are still going to be doing more measurements next Tuesday and then after that I believe the development will start.
Edit:If anyone wants me to suggest anything specific then next tuesday would be the perfect time for me to talk to Shaikh about it.

[Code Monkey]

Thanks a lot for taking your time and driving there.

Will edit this post later when I gather my thoughts.

[Neverlift]

I would like to know spring rates.
What type of piston and valve assembly will be used?
What additional hardware will be needed to mount them?
Will it Rally?

[ColonR]

Really? 4000 for coilovers?!

[Code Monkey]

Really no idea what the final price will be, let's wait and see. There will be several options and prices, depending on what you want out of a coilover.

[memin]

Originally Posted by ColonR Really? 4000 for coilovers?!

That is crazy for that kind of money I can forge my engine and go big turbo and that is way more fun!!!!!!!

[dot584]

Spring rates are still up in the air I think, he sounded very open to our suggestions so give me the spring rates you would like and I can mention it.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

[Neverlift]

Well, for the kind of money you are going to spend you might as well be a little aggressive. 9k front, 6-7k rear. Shouldn't be a harsh ride in any condition but stiff enough for just about everyone.

I am pretty sure whatever damping is done there will be 1k (+/-) still available to match springs without a rebuild.

[dot584]

Spring rates are customizable so you can get whatever you want or go by Shaikh's recommendation after we finish measurements. The prices are still not set but what @Code Monkey posted in the OP is pretty close. The price will depend on the price of the Bilstein's plus his mounting hardware required for height adjustment. Re-valving the shocks are $200 a shock and he will adjust the tuning based on your weight and the weight of the vehicle, number of passengers etc. This is a highly customizable setup and is pretty much made by order. My car is apart right now and we just finished all the measurements.. Consultation form and a video explaining what they look at is on their website: Fat Cat Motorsports - Consultation form, new monotube suspension, shocks and coilovers

If anyone has a picture of the rear Bilstein's that would be great. Part #24-102582 REARS. The pictures online are generic for the rears thats why he asks. Everything is going well so far other than that, just need to determine if its possible to take apart both the front and rear Bilstein's and so far it seems as though that is possible after talking to the guys at Shox.com who Shaikh works with and trusts. Unfortunately Bilstein's are out of stock at Shox.com but anyone who already has them is in luck because you would just have to send them in to get re valved.

Lastly Shaikh would like to know if anyone has an extra front spring perch/bump stop cup and the rubber spring mold for both front and rear that he could use for building a adapter because he will fit them closely to the coilover springs. They may be 2.5" or a tapered 70-90 mm like Tein and others sell. There are similarities to the 3rd gen Miata and RX8 which makes creating spring adapters easier on the Speed6. There is a picture of my adapters attached so you know what I mean but I cant give him mine since its on my car. The part number for that would be useful too in case he needed to order one. He can order the parts but if they're available for borrowing that's better. He'll pay shipping both ways if you want them back.

[Code Monkey]

I don't have any of those parts but I just watched Shaikh's video and am already glazing my seat....

[Code Monkey]

Did some online research, will that work for Shaikh in terms of part numbers?

rear suspension

front suspension

[Neverlift]

No you can't, don't lie.

$4k is absurd though. Tell him to put down the pipe.

[ColonR]

Originally Posted by another 6cms6 No you can't, don't lie. $4k is absurd though. Tell him to put down the pipe.

Ha ha im glad im not the only one who thinks so ha

[forcedinduktion]

lol....?

[Speed_j23]

You have my attention... Would be great to get a proper set-up; since the only speed 6 specific coils are the H&R's which is what I'm leaning towards at the moment. However if this can provide better results for a bit more then I'm game.

[sunshinefc3s]

sub'd.

[dot584]

Thanks for those links, Ill forward them and see it he can do anything with them since I guess nobody has an extra laying around. Figured so since its a random part not many replace. And guys the 4000$ option is probably worth it if your that deep into racing but for most option 2 will be the best bet. You can get the coilovers exactly how you want them, thats the benefit here. The amount of work put into these and attention to detail will put them ahead of H&R's no doubt. As far as I know there is no other way to get that amount of customization unless you order springs from one company, re-valved shocks from another and build it yourself. Sort of difficult for most people and unless you have lots of experience doing that then your not gunna have as optimized of a setup as Shaikh could build. Lets see how this turns out before we go saying its too expensive. Like I said if you already have Bilsteins then this is an easy upgrade with huge benefits like a more comfy ride while still increasing performance if thats the way you want to go.

[Neverlift]

LOL @ "speed6 specific"

I can assure you, no one on this site needs $4k coilovers on their MS6. Just stick to the usual garbage until you have a car that can handle a couple sessions without something getting too hot or overheating. Then, get some seat time. The stock damping is more capable than you can imagine... add a rsb, some bracing/mounts, a bbk, oil/steering/brake/diff/trans cooling, not to mention a proper bucket seat and you may find yourself in an area where the stock dampers or chinese coilover garbage wont cut it anymore.

You will still be using rubber bushings in your suspension though... $4k worth of damping being fuxt w/ by rubber.

[dot584]

Again most wont need the 4k option, 1800 is only a bit more than kw v2's and a bunch of ppl have those. Also the bump stops are taken into account so that they don't mess with the ride and cause understeer. I spent all day going over every measurement with Shaikh and makes sure everything works as it should.

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[Code Monkey]

Guys, nobody makes you buy those. Don't like the price, don't buy them.
I will probably go for 3-way adjustable coilovers because racecar.

[Speed_j23]

Update?

[Code Monkey]

Just got an email from Shaikh that he is nearly done with all the measurements, he is working with @dot584 at the moment.

@Speed_j23

[dot584]

He is currently working on getting their miata race ready and then it will be time for the speed 6. I am going to have to bring my car back to the shop to let him use my spring perches since nobody seems to have an extra. Other than that it looks like work will begin next week sometime.

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[Code Monkey]

Exchanged a couple more emails with Shaikh so thought I update.

At the moment, Shaikh does not make his own coilover kit for the E-type suspension that the speed6 has in the rear. Thus, he will offer coilovers for the front and a spring-over-shock setup for the rear (like the Miata and the S2000). The rears would be single adjustable for compression (rebound could be adjustable but would require taking the shock off). I believe @dot584 is almost done with his suspension and hopefully posts his impressions once the setup is finished.

With regard to handling, Shaikh prefers dialing in cars through spring rates rather than stiffer sway bars. He recommends sticking to stock sway bars (or even removing the rear sway bar) and going for stiffer springs - for example, for my track setup and desired ride frequencies the recommended spring rates he calculated are 700 front and 1000 rear.

Of course for street use the rates would be much lower.

Finally, attached are some examples of his work.

[superskaterxes]

spring over shock in the rear?

is that gona go where the spring or strut is right now?

[Code Monkey]

I will ask. Unless @dot584 already knows the answer.

[dot584]

I am about to have the springs and coilover hardware ordered and sent to the shop. For my more street DD setup he suggested 550lb springs front and 800lb rear which gives me a 1.7 / 2.0 Hz ride frequency. As for the rear setup I am not sure what spring over shock means, I googled it and the pictures I saw look like a coil-over. So thats confusing, but I asked Shaikh so we should hear back soon. I should have this setup on my car the weekend of October 12th if all goes well.

[Code Monkey]

Sweet, yesterday I finally paid my shop off for clutch install and now I can save moniez for Sheikh. Hope you enjoy your setup! Given that we will have coilovers only in front, will the price be a bit lower from the original front and rear coilover setup?

[dot584]

Well I'm not sure what spring over shock even means, that's why I am asking him. I don't think it will make it any cheaper because he still has to fab mounts for both front and rear. It was about 200$ in mounting hardware from Ground Control.

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[Code Monkey]

Cool, just curious. Are you removing the RSB? Can't wait to hear your impressions once you have the setup on the car!

[Black Metal]

In the rear of the car the spring has its own perch further in than the strut. The spring and the strut are not attached to each other. On a spring over strut setup the spring perches are built on to the strut with the strut running up through the middle of the spring.

[dot584]

Shaikh confirmed that it will remain stock setup. He is using my car to make the coilover perches.

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