AUTO-X -Bang for buck setup

[snailD]

Alright so i did a few events last season, got hooked and will be doing the whole season this year. I already know i'm screwed as i am in SMF for my turbo and other power adders. That being said, i did OK last year with the car as is on stock wheels/suspension with 225 dunlop direzza dz101s.

I already picked up some FD's and some racing slicks, but i would like to hear from the experienced autocross-ers on what i should spend the small amount of money i have left on.

Brakes - Mine are shot, i was thinking about going with the cheapest rotors i can find on rockauto and getting some good pads. Pad options with the least fade?(for canyon runs) I dont need stock bite, but i dont want to feel like i have to push the pedal thru the floor to slow down. (would like stainless brake lines but i dont think its necessary and could get something else to help more)

Rear sway - can get a good deal on a whiteline, if not that then probably JBR because of adjustability.

Swift Springs

If i had another hundred or two anything else you would reccomend? I'm just trying to make the most competitive car with a small amount of money. Thoughts on my outline?

[asrautox]

If you really want to be competitive, save a bit more and get a good set of CO's and some camber plates for the front and camber arms for the rear. If you just want to go out and have fun, I'd probably skip the springs for this season and spend the $$ on a big rear sway, Koni/Bilsteins, and some rear camber arms. That's what I'm running and it's a very balanced setup. Go full stiff on the rear sway and keep your rear camber in the -1 range to take some load off the fronts without too much oversteer.

[snailD]

Originally Posted by asrautox If you just want to go out and have fun

its more so this, but making the car as competitive as possible for this season with a limited budget. Next season i should be able to spring for a decent setup

[Crarrs]

Fix your brakes and get a rear sway bar. Almost any of the performance-oriented pads available at Edge, MAP, or Tire Rack will work fine for you. Just don't pick a track-only pad because it will never get up to operating temp during an autocross event.

[Bobforapples]

I'm not super experienced in autox, but I would wait for slicks until you can out drive street tires.

I'm in the same boat as you as far as experience, but there's a lot more to gain with an alignment and seat time.

[snailD]

Originally Posted by Bobforapples I'm not super experienced in autox, but I would wait for slicks until you can out drive street tires. I'm in the same boat as you as far as experience, but there's a lot more to gain with an alignment and seat time.

i hear ya man, i got a decent amount of seat time this year and learned how to drive the car pretty well. My first time out at a practice event i came out with a second fastest time only to lose to my buddy with a race car miata by a tenth of a second. Not trying to say i know all about driving but i'm not new to racing (just auto racing) and have been told i've been doing extremely well for being "new." I'm excited to get on the slicks as that was probably the main thing holding me back time wise. I've been doing a bit of reading and i realize it isn't advised for new drivers to get on them, but i've driven on them before (just for a few laps) and realize their signs of the "limit" aren't as easy to read. Regardless i'm running them =).

I DO need to get an alignment, i'm reading a book now about setting up the car so hopefully will come up with my own specs before the season begins

[Deldran]

Here is my recommendation. I got about 80 passes in this season. Honestly ditch the racing tires and get some good summers rivals z2 and so on. Imho race tires are not worth it. And u do not want to learn your car on them. For example @phate; beat me by 3 seconds in my own car. Driver mod is the best mod for ax.

For suspension if you want something out of the box that is extremely awesome get ms coilovers through msm if they still have them. Only 1600 bucks and absolutely amazing. If you want something more custom go with the ground control kit with custom valved shocks and matching spring rates.

Brakes go with ebc yellows. I will be switching to them for the new season. Also stainless steels lines give a huge improvement in brake feel.

@nlllintend1; @MS3johanna; are some others that might have helpful info

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[Bobforapples]

Last year was my first year as well and I just went in with the mods in sig. Did fairly well; consistent but not quite quick enough. Like you, I also have the urge to buy parts but unfortunately my clutch is slipping so that takes priority. I'm obviously lacking in the suspension area but hopefully I can at least afford camber arms and an alignment, and maybe Bils/Swifts.

But most of all, I'm just excited to get back out there driving! This -55 Windchill is no bueno.

[snailD]

Originally Posted by Deldran Brakes go with ebc yellows. I will be switching to them for the new season. Also stainless steels lines give a huge improvement in brake feel.

thanks for the brake recommendation, but on the suspension side i cant afford 1600 coils, hence the swift springs (used like 200 bucks). i'm thinkin of spending like 800 bucks total. I figured the springs would help out some along with the sway to help rid of some understeer.

I learned alot about the car already and tires are one thing i'm not changing. i got a good deal on some used r-comps and fd's (cost me like 300 bucks total) and getting different tires will be like my whole budget when i still need pads and rotors (maybe lines if enough people say its worth it)

I realize ideally this wouldn't be the setup to run, but as the title says i'm going bang for the buck trying to work with what i have. I know i wont win (there is a super fast mx-6) but if i can have a good time and threaten a few people i'm happy.

[beachshoer]

Stainless steel brake lines will amaze you. Slap some hawk hp+ pads on and you'll have some wicked bite. And a rsb. Those two things will change up the feel enough it'll take you half a season to adjust. And I'm not saying to get used to I'm saying to fully appreciate and use to their full potential. Then start looking into some good suspension parts. Doesn't have to be a crazy CO set, even some koni yellis and sport springs will give a huge help.

[Deldran]

Listen in am all for bang for your buck. Buy rcomps are no way to become a better driver they will just mask your flaws as a driver.

If you want budget the ground control is a much better option the spring rates on most after market springs are not well suited for AX.

If you are serious about wanting to get into autocross sell those fds and rcomps I am sure you could get more than what u played for. Buy an rsb and start saving. Again I am all for doing stuff on the cheap but if your main goal is autocross for the car there are some things you simply can't compromise on

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[phate]

Since you only did a few events, save the money on parts and spend it on seat time. Those RComps will give you some very, very bad habits if you use them early on. You can't use them to their full potential, and coming off of rcomps is a very difficult transition compared to going to rcomps. If you can't afford 2 sets of rcomps per season, don't bother just to 'test them out'.

Seat time will gain you more than anything right now. Give it a season or two and then invest in parts.

Edit: brakes. EBC yellows were my favorites in my ms3. Hawk HPS and HP+ are inconsistent and I couldn't stand them. My avatar pic was taken with yellows on my 6, also. They don't mind the abuse.

[rymanmazda]

As others have said, I would recommend to use summer tires and learn the car on an autox track through tons of seat time then slowly tweak the car to fit in your class. But that's just my opinion.

[Deldran]

Also what size are those rcomps. I would imagine they are smaller than stock size which really is not that good as it makes your gearing even shorter. If they are close to stock size even in an rcomp you are going to get so much sidewall slop it would be crazy

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[daafisch]

As everyone else said, stick with street tires and learn the car as is. If you REALLY want to get something just invest in a RSB.

Originally Posted by Deldran Also what size are those rcomps. I would imagine they are smaller than stock size which really is not that good as it makes your gearing even shorter. If they are close to stock size even in an rcomp you are going to get so much sidewall slop it would be crazy Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

rcomps have stiffer sidewalls than street tires so roll over isn't as much of an issue. Many in the stock classes will run 285's on 8" rims.

[Deldran]

I wasn't referring to width I was talking about sidewall height. If its close to stock wheel diameter that's a whole lot of sidewall I know rcomps have stiffer sidewalls but you are still con get some slop even in an rconp with a 70 or 80 ratio sidewall. Pretty sure they don't make rcomps that tall I could be wrong though

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[anavrinIV]

Don't cheap on brake rotors. KNS has a full stoptech street setup for $325 or so, all 4 corners. I've put in a bit of seat time with them on track and street and have been impressed. They may not be quite EBC good but for the money they're fantastic. Also a good sway bar will transform the handling of the car and take it from understeer prone to a very neutral balance, I love mine and most others here do as well.

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV Don't cheap on brake rotors. KNS has a full stoptech street setup for $325 or so, all 4 corners. I've put in a bit of seat time with them on track and street and have been impressed. They may not be quite EBC good but for the money they're fantastic. Also a good sway bar will transform the handling of the car and take it from understeer prone to a very neutral balance, I love mine and most others here do as well.

Lol OEM rotors are fine for ax and the best cheap option. 200 for all 4 through msm.

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[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by Deldran Lol OEM rotors are fine for ax and the best cheap option. 200 for all 4 through msm. Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I'm not doubting that but he said he would just buy the cheapest parts from rock auto...which I would not suggest. When I did my brakes I planned to go OEM but the stoptech setup was cheaper and the quality is just as good if not better. I don't have MSM access (wish I did) so prices were higher for me.

[Deldran]

Its super easy to get. Go do to ax events and be a member of scca.

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[anavrinIV]

I'm wanting to this year, everything is at least an hour from me though

[daafisch]

OEM and centric blanks work fine. I've used them both on the track with no ill side effects.

[Deldran]

I drive 3 hours to autocross stop being a pussy lol

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[snailD]

yeah i have heard from many people that as long as they are still vented in the center a disc is a disc basically. i was told to not worry about getting expensive drilled and slotted just get a cheap disc and a good pad

[Deldran]

Get an msm membership you if you did 2 events and are an scca member its free just got a give them info. There is no better solution than msm for rotors and many other consumable parts

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[snailD]

i dont have a membership yet but i did 2 events last season. would i be able to apply once i get my membership?

[Bobforapples]

Originally Posted by Deldran Get an msm membership you if you did 2 events and are an scca member its free just got a give them info. There is no better solution than msm for rotors and many other consumable parts Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

For MSM, is there any restrictions regarding classing? I have 4 event results, but no SCCA membership.

So as long as the results are timed with a date and the local Autox chapter name at top, and I get a SCCA membership; I qualify?

I would love a discount on rotors, and I hear nothing but good about MSM coils out of the box.

Sorry for thread jack OP, just looking for clarification.

[Deldran]

Should be able to if not just do two more.

What size are the rcomps

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Originally Posted by Bobforapples For MSM, is there any restrictions regarding classing? I have 4 event results, but no SCCA membership. So as long as the results are timed with a date and the local Autox chapter name at top, and I get a SCCA membership; I qualify? I would love a discount on rotors, and I hear nothing but good about MSM coils out of the box. Sorry for thread jack OP, just looking for clarification.

Yes it doesn't matter what class or what not as long as its a timed event hpde autocross rally whatever. All u turn in for proof is results from the event.

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[snailD]

i dont remember, i'm visiting family right now, going home tomorrow.

But it sounds like a RSB is a must (i dont like the lack of rotation right now)
@daafisch; what is your favorite pad and were the swift springs worth it (for handling alone not the lows)

[Deldran]

I really like the cs bar with the cs links. My car handles extremely well

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I would guess most will recommend the ebc yellows. I am running cs right now as they are a bit of an improvement over stock they are just not aggressive enough for me. Might not be a bad choice for someone still learning though. I would still say get yellows

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[daafisch]

Originally Posted by snailD i dont remember, i'm visiting family right now, going home tomorrow. But it sounds like a RSB is a must (i dont like the lack of rotation right now) @daafisch; what is your favorite pad and were the swift springs worth it (for handling alone not the lows)

I liked the Carbotech AX-6's on my old car but I might be trying different pads this season. Wasn't a fan of the stock pads on the pu this past season and didn't feel like putting on my XP-8's or XP-10's as they would never get hot and just rip through my rotors.

As for the springs, the car is definitely more balanced in the slaloms but I don't think they made a night and day difference. I got used making my transitions earlier due to the stock body roll and I then had to adjust that after the suspension install. My gen1 was traded just before the start of the season so I gradually swapped over my parts to the gen2 over the summer. I'd say the RSB made the biggest improvement.

Originally Posted by Deldran I would guess most will recommend the ebc yellows. Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

You make a lot of assumptions.

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by daafisch I liked the Carbotech AX-6's on my old car but I might be trying different pads this season. Wasn't a fan of the stock pads on the pu this past season and didn't feel like putting on my XP-8's or XP-10's as they would never get hot and just rip through my rotors. As for the springs, the car is definitely more balanced in the slaloms but I don't think they made a night and day difference. I got used making my transitions earlier due to the stock body roll and I then had to adjust that after the suspension install. My gen1 was traded just before the start of the season so I gradually swapped over my parts to the gen2 over the summer. I'd say the RSB made the biggest improvement. You make a lot of assumptions.

Really the majority of people that I know who autocross run yellows how is that an assumption. They are a great pad

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[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Deldran Really the majority of people that I know who autocross run yellows how is that an assumption. They are a great pad Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

I've heard they are a great pad, I'm actually considering them for this upcoming season. In my region it's a good mix of Hawk, Carbotech and EBC that are ran. I've personally ran stock, Hawk HPS, and a mixture of Carbotech's. I want to get some Ferodo DS2500's but I don't really want to spend the money to see if the part number on the UK sites is correct.

[Tweaek]

I've still got that tripoint RSB if you're interested Dave.


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[grantmm]

DyDeeps!

Get that bar! The tripoint is a very high quality RSB. Also, stick with the stock rotors. For autocrossing, pads and fluid make a bigger difference. The MS3 has some of the best brakes out there for sheer stopping power from sub 60. Going between my mazda and other cars (STis, M3s, etc) I missing my braking point every time because I expect those cars to stop as well as ours does.

PS, it sucks I missed you last year. I'll see you this season!

[Deldran]

I love my cs bar. With my setup it is the right amount of stiff

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[redgenpu]

Has anyone tried the expensive Centric rotors? They're supposed to be ok, though I don't know how they would compare to the stockers.

I've had steel braided brake lines on a few cars and never "felt" a difference. Different pads will make more of a "feel" difference, imo. I don't think they're needed for AX, and the only reason I got them before was for track. I've heard stories (never verified) of rubber hoses bursting so putting in steel lines would make some sense.

I also agree with the poster above to stay away from Hawks. Maybe some people love them, but the ones I had (HP+ I think) squealed on new rotors and dusted crazy mad. Just rinsing the wheel with a hose left a black river down the driveway. Didn't track them but they didn't seem to stop any better either under normal conditions.

Definitely flush the brake system with at least a cheap DOT 3/4 fluid.

As far as the Whiteline bar is concerned, it looks like they built it to work with their front bar (just based on size) so not sure it's a great stand-alone bar. I will also say that a rsb change would be helped by a fsb change too, but that's just my thought. If anyone has any hard evidence either way, I'd like to hear it. To get the car to rotate, try left foot braking or e-brake. I'm a big fan of left foot braking but haven't had this car long enough to try it.

[Deldran]

I switch to stainless lined and it made a huge difference in peddle feel

Also I see absolutely 0 need to ever upgrade the front sway bar on these cars

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[grantmm]

I autocross with the front bar disconnected. Granted, for that to work you have to have stiff, stiff springs.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by grantmm I autocross with the front bar disconnected. Granted, for that to work you have to have stiff, stiff springs.

I found this out first hand...lol Swift springs are not stiff enough