MS6 Hesitation and boost loss at WOT in low gears at high RPM

[MR_MAZDA]

So I have an 06 speed6 with a test pipe, cat back exhaust, intake, fmic, forge bov, hpfp internals and a cobb accessport. when I go full throttle in first, second and sometimes third, i feel a strong hesitation (feels like detonation to me) at around 4k and up. when the hesitation hits the boost will drop from 15psi or so down to 8 or 10psi. my knock retard on the AP tops out around .3 -.4 which i'm not sure is normal, i would think it should be 0 but i'm new to these cars so maybe i'm wrong. the only check engine code i've gotten in the car was a EGR code which has shown up twice in a month and a half, each time i just cleared it and it was fine. I've looked over the piping for boost leaks and havent found one, and also tried stretching the springs in the ignition coils with no results. the turbo was recently replaced at my local mazda dealership through my extended warranty company. They didn't use an original mazda turbo according to the dealership, it was some sort of aftermarket equivalent. I only had the car for 3 days before the turbo blew so it's hard to say whether i was having the issue before or not. the dealership said that since there is no underboost code and it hits 8psi that it is operating normally as far as they're concerned. also, most likely unrelated, in higher gears when i hit full boost between 16-19psi i hear a flutter almost like a quiet BOV flutter, wastegate chatter perhaps?

i ran one more test, i pulled the vacuum line off of the BOV and plugged the hose. boosting fine now with no hesitation. time to replace the BOV i suppose.

After driving it the bov is not the issue. It seemed. Better in my short test drive before but apparently not.

[Vansquish]

Do you have any datalogs?

[ihasmazda]

i'd say #1 get a tune if you went from a mystery turbo to OEM and have a bunch of mods installed, are you still running the same map as the old turbo? which map?

[MR_MAZDA]

The turbo they put on is some sort of aftermarket, but should be very similar to oem. I'm running a stage 3 cobb map. I attached a datalog i took about a week ago trying to diagnose this problem. it looks like its running a bit lean under boost but the fuel pressure is staying steady at 1700 or so at full throttle. is it possible my electric fuel pump has gone bad preventing the hpfp from getting enough volume of fuel to the injectors but still maintaining pressure? that's what was proposed by one of the lead techs at the shop i work at.

[blackms3_71]

If i read this data log right you have a LOT OF TIMING are you running meth or e85? You are lean the whole time. I would not wot till you know what turbo you have a adjust for it

Look like yoy even got boost cut at one point where the waste gate duty drops to 1 then go back up.

[MR_MAZDA]

Originally Posted by ms3gt08 If i read this data log right you have a LOT OF TIMING are you running meth or e85? You are lean the whole time. I would not wot till you know what turbo you have a adjust for it

i'm running straight 93 octane no additives or anything. should i try a different map? suggestions on alternatives to the cobb map?

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA i'm running straight 93 octane no additives or anything. should i try a different map? suggestions on alternatives to the cobb map?

I would run any map then What you have now.

Wait just looked again and your calc load is very low for a wot log.

[MR_MAZDA]

i forgot to mention, the dealership said my variable timing unit was making noise so they replaced that at the same time as the turbo.

[InkedInspector]

First things first, you need to find out what turbocharger you have. The only turbo I can think of that is similar to the K04, would be a BNR S1 or 2. If they didn't install a BNR then you have some kind of chinese Ebay special. Regardless, any turbo that isn't a K04 is going to require a tune, there aren't OTS tunes for any aftermarket turbo chargers. You need to get in there and see if you can get some pictures of the turbo and figure out what it is.

[MR_MAZDA]

i see a max of 1.15 calc load. where is that supposed to be at wot?

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA i see a max of 1.15 calc load. where is that supposed to be at wot?

I would guess atleast 1.25 or greater. More around 1.7-2.0

[MR_MAZDA]

So what would that indicate?

[sheston]

Something looks messed up. You're AFRs stay around 14.7 even though you are WOT. You might be spinning the tires? Are you self tuned? Your open closed transition may be set wrong.

Maybe post a 3rd or 4th gear log or take a "shorter" lower gear log that shows what you are feeling. Without any guidance, it's hard to know where the event is occurring in your log

[MR_MAZDA]

Definitely not spinning tires. I'm using the stage 3 ots Cobb map. I'm kinda new to datalogging so I apologize for the poor example. I'll try to get a better one tonight.

[MS3Shadow]

Usually a log is from 4th gear starting at 2500 to all the way to 6500/redline.

sent from my Nexus 6P

[MR_MAZDA]

Here is a third gear pull from about 2300-6500.

[blackms3_71]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA Here is a third gear pull from about 2300-6500.

Dude seriously either have mazda tell u what they put it or make them put a ko4. Wtf is a equivalent to a ko4 when a dealer deals with oem parts lol. They fucked you hard with that shit

[MR_MAZDA]

Originally Posted by davychronic Your load values are way low and 80% wgdc only making 13psi along with only 170 g/s plus wayyyyyyyyy too much timing for such lean afr's, its amazing that you have 0 knock. You are also +17 ltft in some of your part throttle driving, so im thinking you should start by checking for a boost leak, dealership may have got some shit mixed up...probably not a bad idea to step down to a stage 2 cobb ots and try a maf cal and 0 wgdc below 3000 rpm, then get us a log to look at

i've tried dropping down to stage 2 and stage 1, it has the same issue either way. maf calibration? is there a thread on that somewhere?

EDIT found this thread: MAF Calibration Tutorial but i have to wait 24 hours to download accesstuner race from cobb.

Originally Posted by ms3gt08 Dude seriously either have mazda tell u what they put it or make them put a ko4. Wtf is a equivalent to a ko4 when a dealer deals with oem parts lol. They fucked you hard with that shit

it wasnt the dealer. they were going to get me a ko4 but the extended warranty company said they were gonna get a turbo elsewhere which i expected to be the same just directly from mazda not through the dealer. the dealer then told me that the turbo was not from mazda, that it was some sort of aftermarket equivalent.

ok, so I attached my air compressor set at 40psi to a vacuum hose and plugged the intake. there doesnt appear to be any leaks. if there is one its gotta be awfully small because when I un plugged the intake i heard the pressure release very clearly.

Check engine light just popped on when I started it. P0300 Random/multiple misfire detected and PCM no description available.

Edit: went to the shop I work at and scanned it with their scan tool. P0300 and U0100 which is an all wheel drive code. "Lost communication with ecm/pcm

So while I had the scan tool connected I checked the engine data while it was running. The upstream oxygen sensor heater turns on and off every .5 second or so. Sounds like my o2 sensor needs replacing. Nobody has one in stock but I'm gonna check the dealer tomorrow.

[davychronic]

Your load values are way low and 80% wgdc only making 13psi along with only 170 g/s plus wayyyyyyyyy too much timing for such lean afr's, its amazing that you have 0 knock. You are also +17 ltft in some of your part throttle driving, so im thinking you should start by checking for a boost leak, dealership may have got some shit mixed up...probably not a bad idea to step down to a stage 2 cobb ots and try a maf cal and 0 wgdc below 3000 rpm, then get us a log to look at

[sheston]

I agree with what @davychronic; said, plus I'll add that your MAF voltage looks high before you get into boost (like it has almost a 2V offset) and then looks high with the cfms you are flowing.

Does anyone know what the ECU does in limp mode? I wonder if the dealer forgot to make some electrical connections and it is going into limp mode

[Rhylian]

sounds possible sheston, i dealt with limp once and it was similar to what op describes

[davychronic]

Originally Posted by Rhylian sounds possible sheston, i dealt with limp once and it was similar to what op describes

If it was limp mode stft and ltft would always be 0.16 since limp mode runs in open loop

in other words limp mode runs rich as a safety precaution

and the warranty company probably bought you a reman turbo instead of paying for a new one from Mazda so i wouldnt worry about it being some "aftermarket" turbo

[davychronic]

I would take it back to the dealer and say they need to deal with your warranty company to fix your shit. It is unacceptable for any dealer to give you back your car with any codes.

Make sure you load your stock map before giving it to them as well.

[MR_MAZDA]

So I took my car to the dealership and told them to check the o2 sensor since my warranty says it covers o2 sensors and its clearly bad judging by the heater cutting on and off every .5 second or so. They said its fine and that I have the wrong spark plugs in it. I just put two step colder plugs in using part numbers from this forum. So I paid $60 diagnosis fee for nothing. Would my o2 sensor being ruined from the tons of burned and probably unburned oil going past it when the turbo blew give me the issues I'm having?

[davychronic]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA So I took my car to the dealership and told them to check the o2 sensor since my warranty says it covers o2 sensors and its clearly bad judging by the heater cutting on and off every .5 second or so. They said its fine and that I have the wrong spark plugs in it. I just put two step colder plugs in using part numbers from this forum. So I paid $60 diagnosis fee for nothing. Would my o2 sensor being ruined from the tons of burned and probably unburned oil going past it when the turbo blew give me the issues I'm having?

Why do you have 2 step colder plugs on a stock turbo? Put stock ones back in for starters. Oil will cause bad redings on an o2 but thats not your problem.

[MR_MAZDA]

Originally Posted by davychronic Why do you have 2 step colder plugs on a stock turbo? Put stock ones back in for starters. Oil will cause bad redings on an o2 but thats not your problem.

I was under the impression that with the extra boost I need to run colder plugs. I'll put the stock ones back in after work.


I already checked the coil springs for corrosion they look fine and I stretched them a little just in case that was my issue. The dealer also said I may have a bad #3 ignition coil and that #3 spark plug was a little loose so they tightened it up but it made no difference although that might've explained the p0300 code on cold startup.

Should I just take the chance and buy a coil? The heater circuit on the o2 sensor worries me because it turning on and off would put it in and out of closed loop right?

[DocBrown]

I had a problem that sounds similar to this a few months back. Would go WOT in 3rd/4th/5th and would get a stuttering hesitation. As I recall, the logs showed a drop off in load, high AFRs (14's), and not hitting boost targets. Turned out it was a couple shitty coil packs that had developed corrosion on the springs and had bad contact to the spark plugs. Wound up replacing the coil packs with new OEM FoMoCos from Ebay for $90 and solved the problem. Granted I was throwing misfire codes and you aren't (yet at least).

Check for any corrosion on your coil pack springs and check the gaps on your plugs just to be safe. It's easy enough to do.

[davychronic]

You paid a diagnostic and they said you "may" have a bad coil. What the fuck kind of dealership is this?

[MR_MAZDA]

i changed the #3 coil that they said "might" be bad and reflashed the stage 3 cobb ots map. no difference whatsoever. i attached another datalog from afterwards and it appears that i'm in open loop?

[davychronic]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA i changed the #3 coil that they said "might" be bad and reflashed the stage 3 cobb ots map. no difference whatsoever. i attached another datalog from afterwards and it appears that i'm in open loop?

You should be in open loop under wot so that is normal. I would check for a leak somewhere between the maf and turbo because you are lean as hell under boost and you are reading about 100 g/s less than you should be at redline. I really wouldnt drive wot anymore running that much timing until you get this issue resolved or you will be joining the zzb club(just my opinion).

[MR_MAZDA]

Originally Posted by davychronic You should be in open loop under wot so that is normal. I would check for a leak somewhere between the maf and turbo because you are lean as hell under boost and you are reading about 100 g/s less than you should be at redline. I really wouldnt drive wot anymore running that much timing until you get this issue resolved or you will be joining the zzb club(just my opinion).

i'll pull the intake off after work today and report my findings.

[SofaKingAwesome]

OP.

STOP.WHAT.YOU.ARE.DOING.

GET A TUNE FROM A PROFESSIONAL.

LIKE YESTERDAY.

MSF VENDORS FREEKTUNE AND HYPNOTIC TUNING ARE YOUR BEST BETS.

SERIOUSLY.

STOP. GET A TUNE. DON'T BECOME A STATISTIC.

[WetzMS3]

Wow. AFR's 16+ at WOT?

For real homie, get a legit tune. You may need to start saving for a new motor already.

[davychronic]

His problem wont be fixed by just a tune and no reputable tuner would even try to tune this car in its condition.

[MR_MAZDA]

so i pulled the intake off, although a little scratched up, no holes or cuts in anything. as i was putting it back together i noticed the larger hose that goes from the back of the valve cover to the intake had some slight cuts in it. i had nothing to plug it with so i took the hose off the intake and duct taped the nipple coming off the intake. went for a test drive and it drives way better. although looking at my datalog from the test drive, it doesnt look any better to me, but then again i'm a total noob with mazdaspeeds and tuning in general. thoughts?

[DocBrown]

You need to pressure test your intake to make sure you have all leaks closed up

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[sheston]

You should quit going WOT until you figure out what is wrong. Continue to do this and you will go ZZB! You're getting a lot of knock, you seem to have a lot of timing advance, but most importantly, your AFRs are messed up.

You need to figure out if it is because of a leak, bad MAF or MAF cal, ....

You are putting a lot of stress on your engine

[sh4d0w]

Holy fak dude. stop fucking going WOT right now and get a tune RIGHT NOW.

You are going to blow that engine up 100%

15/16 AFR with like 20 degrees timing is fucking insane.

[MR_MAZDA]

is it possible that the vvt unit the dealership put in at the same time as the turbo is defective? if so how would i prove that? and as for the maf, wouldnt that set a Check engine light or not necessarily? how would a maf cal be off by this much? im not sure exactly what the readings are supposed to be, but it sounds like they're drastically off. is it possible the maf is just dirty and hitting it with some maf cleaner would help?

side note, i ordered a new afr sensor from mazda which should be here friday. the current one i think has an issue in the heater circuit because the heater flips on and off every .5 second or so, not to mention it has 90k+ and when the turbo blew it was pouring oil into the exhaust.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by MR_MAZDA is it possible that the vvt unit the dealership put in at the same time as the turbo is defective? if so how would i prove that? and as for the maf, wouldnt that set a Check engine light or not necessarily? how would a maf cal be off by this much? im not sure exactly what the readings are supposed to be, but it sounds like they're drastically off. is it possible the maf is just dirty and hitting it with some maf cleaner would help? side note, i ordered a new afr sensor from mazda which should be here friday. the current one i think has an issue in the heater circuit because the heater flips on and off every .5 second or so, not to mention it has 90k+ and when the turbo blew it was pouring oil into the exhaust.

The turbo can blow oil all day long and it wouldn't touch the maf. It sounds like you are just blindly throwing parts at this instead of actually troubleshooting it. Soon you'll be troubleshooting your wallet wondering why it's so fucking empty.

Pressure test the intake system.

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