SWAS - How to disable

[Pedal-Force]

Originally Posted by Erich But clipping that wire is a permanent modification that might void my warranty.

I'm guessing you're joking, but if not...

Solder that shit back together and heatshrink it. Like they'll ever open your steering column anyway.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[kritz]

Yes, I think he was being a bit sarcastic. I know that that is hard to believe on this forum!

[Pedal-Force]

Yeah, I figured. Subtlety doesn't come across the internet well.

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[Dano]

Originally Posted by Pedal-Force Yeah, I figured. Subtlety doesn't come across the internet well. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

not sure Erich's comment was subtle considering the context...coming from the guy that has a fully built 500+ WHP MS3...warranty is the last thing on his mind

[Pedal-Force]

Thought he might've been one of the big hp ones. It's hard to keep track of everyone and their cars sometimes, especially on the tapatalk without sigs and avatars.

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[Dano]

so true...

Originally Posted by Dano not sure Erich's comment was subtle considering the context...coming from the guy that has a fully built 500+ WHP MS3...warranty is the last thing on his mind

well I guess you can't say "coming from the guy" anymore...since we have what 3-4 now?

haha

[Erich]

Originally Posted by Dano so true... well I guess you can't say "coming from the guy" anymore...since we have what 3-4 now? haha

Fuck that, I'm still the guy. The rest are just following. First 500+ and then slipping clutch.

[\sarcasm] <----- for those that need it

[doubleflusher]

What clutch do you/did you have?

I killed my OEM after 200 miles.

ACT 6 puck FTW!!

[Erich]

Was a sbc feramic street disk. Have an sbc 6 puck ready to go in, just need to find the time.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Erich [\sarcasm] <----- for those that need it

sarcasm...I invented it bitch!

and yes you are the first...the cherry is yours.

[rigor]

Originally Posted by Erich But clipping that wire is a permanent modification that might void my warranty.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by crtguns Fuck logs... I can seriously feel my car's faster through hard curves. Never realized it till now- how stoopid that computer sensor crap is. Putting the brakes on for you while you're trying to accellerate through a curve- it's counterproductive. Braking in a curve unlads the rear tires, that will cause slip and slide. Accellerating through and out of a curve keeps the nose up and the rear end planted. Moreso with a RWD, but still applies here. Unplug your shit.

It doesn't "put the brakes on."

It simply holds back engine power.

[Dano]

but can/does it modulate brake application to F/R? I swear the very day I disabled my SWAS I almost bit it in a corner that I routinely take and brake at higher speeds...see OP disclaimer.

might have just been coincidence and I took the corner a bit different.

[Nliiitend1]

I don't believe so, but I have no primary knowledge upon which my belief is based...

**EDIT**

Let me qualify that statemtent...

The SWAS surely plays a role in the behavior of the DSC (which has some power over the braking system), but I think the jury is still out about how interconnected the DSC and ABS (in the "old-fashioned", simply-keep-the-brakes-from-locking fashion) are...

I would hope that the engineers designed the system so that when you push the "DSC off" button it would disable the brake vectoring part of the braking system (along with the traction control) and leave just the "simply-keep-the-brakes-from-locking" portion of the braking system in service. I believe this to be the case with this car. I believe that the power-limiting function of the SWAS is independent of the SWAS's role in DSC. Basically, my working theory is that two systems are operating independently of one another (the power-limiting algorithms in the ECU, and the DSC system) using data from the same sensor. The power reduction that Mazda may or may not employ (not ALL ESC/DSC systems limit power - some do their magic purely through the braking system, and I'm honestly not sure what Mazda claims this car uses) for the DSC system is completely separate from the power reduction used to limit torque-steer/traction problems (the gear 1-2 power limiting and SWAS-dependent power limiting).

That said, if you simply halt the SWAS's ability to send data to BOTH those systems, you would of course expect that you might get some funky behavior out of the DSC system...

If anyone has hard evidence that suggests my theories are unsound, please post it up.

[Dano]

I certainly don't know for sure but as you said the SWAS is just a sensor and two system use that sensor in their calculations.

without the SWAS neither knows the steering angle of the car and thus can't even attempt to compensate for any steering angle. my theory is that if you over steer a lil bit the ABS system would kick in and auto apply brake pressure which would assist in the oversteer condition. I found that my car rotated very easily with SWAS disabled compared to when it was plugged in.

.02

[Tokay444]

When dsc is on, the idea is that if it senses oversteer, it brakes the outside front tire in an attempt to push the front end out.
Without a steering angle sensor, I don't see how the car would even know it was oversteering.
I do know that with the dsc off and the squiggly lines lit, the car will snap oversteer at the drop of a had.
It most likely has more to do with suspension geometry than the electronics.

[RWDAddict]

Did the new major release fix these issues?

[Erich]

I see nothing in the release notes that indicate anything to do with SWAS.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Erich I see nothing in the release notes that indicate anything to do with SWAS.

I wonder if one of those codes disables the swerving ms3 light?

[Jake5713]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I wonder if one of those codes disables the swerving ms3 light?

+1


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.738952,-93.065893
-Jake

[Spoofmastafly]

Any of you guys that disconnected the SWAS have any issue's with your power steering going out when turning while moving slow? I'm sure I read a thread somewhere about a Gen2 owner losing his power steering while going under 10mph with the SWAS disconnected. Good thing though, this explains why my car will hesitate sometimes while making a sharp turn trying to go WOT.

[Nliiitend1]

Seeing as how the Gen 2 uses an electric pump, I'd say it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that something like that might happen...

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I wonder if one of those codes disables the swerving ms3 light?

From what I can find, the codes dealing with traction control are Mazda-specific, and therefore start with a 1 (P1XXX). There are no manufacturer-specific codes in the DTC list in ATR.

Most Complete List For Mazda Check Engine Light Codes

[Pedal-Force]

Originally Posted by rigor i just clipped the yellow wire with blue stripe, and wired it to a switch so when its icy or shity out im good to go. [IM G]http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l514/rigor1/2011-11-12123406.jpg[/IMG] [IM G]http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l514/rigor1/2011-11-12123322.jpg[/IMG]

Where'd you run the switch to? I don't really want to drill a hole in my steering column. I'm thinking of using a reed proximity switch. Only problem is that reed switches are all momentary, so I'd need to build a little circuit to turn it into a toggle.

Would anyone be interested in something like this? Once I get moved into my new house and settled (things are crazy right now, it would be after the new year probably), I could build a few and sell them. If there was enough interest I could even have some boards fabbed up and make it look nice. I'll prototype on my car though. Gotta figure out the simplest way to make the toggle work, without taking up too much space.

[rigor]

Originally Posted by Pedal-Force Where'd you run the switch to? I don't really want to drill a hole in my steering column. I'm thinking of using a reed proximity switch. Only problem is that reed switches are all momentary, so I'd need to build a little circuit to turn it into a toggle. Would anyone be interested in something like this? Once I get moved into my new house and settled (things are crazy right now, it would be after the new year probably), I could build a few and sell them. If there was enough interest I could even have some boards fabbed up and make it look nice. I'll prototype on my car though. Gotta figure out the simplest way to make the toggle work, without taking up too much space.

i prefer the switch switch it off and forget it, till the icy season comes, i don't need another button to forget to push and get power cut lol

i mounted mine here

[Pedal-Force]

Finished. I ended up not doing the reed switch, just too much work (although it would have been a normal toggle, you wouldn't have needed to hit it each time). I ended up with a little blade toggle switch.

Of course, in my infinite wisdom, I put it sort of in the way of the handle for the tilt/telescope thing. It still works. You kinda just bend the plastic where I put the switch slightly to slide the handle paste. Plus, how often do I use that handle?

Oh well. It's working fine.

[Pedal-Force]

So if anyone is interested in exactly how to put a switch in (I've gotten a PM asking for clarification).

Buy a simple SPST (single pole single switch) toggle switch from Radio Shack or wherever. You can also use a rocker, or a push button. I wouldn't recommend a lighted one because I'm not sure where to find a 12V down there, and also because some of those switches only have three terminals. A +V, a GND, and an ACC. So in order to get light, you have to tie the thing you want to switch into +12V, which isn't what we want. If you can find a proper GND and 12V source down there, and get a 4 terminal SPST switch, feel free to get a lit switch, although you'll be putting it in an invisible place anyway.

Unplug the sensor plug as shown earlier. Cut the tubing around the wires back some so you can get at the wires. Pick a wire from the sensor plug, and cut it about halfway between the sensor and the edge of where you can see it come out of the tubing. It probably doesn't matter what wire you pick. I tested them all, and most are 0V DC. One is .3 V, probably the power for the chips. One is ground, and the rest are probably signal. I picked the power one, but it doesn't matter.

Get a couple feet of wire (18-20 AWG stranded is probably best, approximate match for the sensor wires). Cut it in half and strip each end. Strip the two ends of the sensor wire that you cut.

Take out the third screw and completely remove the bottom piece of plastic from the steering column. Drill a hole in the bottom the size necessary for your switch that you've bought. Make sure you don't drill it in the inset where the tilt handle goes, unless your switch is short enough to clear it. Before you install the switch, solder one end of each of the long wires that you cut to the terminals on the switch. Then install the switch in the plastic. Heatshrink those connections (or electrical tape if you can't heatshrink, but I'd really recommend heatshrink, electrical tape gets nasty after a while). Then slide heatshrink on the long wires and solder one end of each to the cut ends of the sensor wires. Slide the heatshrink over the connections and solder. If 1 foot is gonna be too long, you can cut them to length before you solder, I didn't measure, I just used some pieces of wire I had. Plug the sensor back in, turn the ignition on and see if your switch works. With the toggle off you'll have no SWAS so the lights will be on. If you switch it ON after it has been OFF, the car will still think it has a problem until you turn the car on/off again.

If it's working, put the plastic cover back on the steering column, and tighten it up. You're done.

Simple.

[Pedal-Force]

So I'm back from my first drive with the SWAS toggle turned off. Definitely no traction control anymore. It's raining, so in a safe area I put my foot down in 2nd, spun the tires all the way to redline, no nanny at all. The wheel hop is also much, much worse now, so I'll have to deal with that. At least I'm in control of my own car now.

The power steering definitely does something weird though. The pump is still working, because if you turn the wheel the headlights dim. But it's not helping much at all, if any. It's definitely not doing anything at low speed, but I'm not sure it's working at high speed either, you just don't notice because it's not hard to turn the wheel anyway. Definitely annoying.

[Erich]

Must be a genpu thing (electrical vs mechanical). I have not seen that kind of thing with my PS and been driving around with SWAS disconnected for a couple of months now.

[Dano]

same here...guess the SWAS also tells the PSP when to activate or some sort of valve to open on a genpu.

[mrmonk7663]

This sucks. I hate the SWAS...I find it dangerous, especially if pulling out from a dead stop to get into traffic...I hit the gas and the car sputters and spits and doesn't move...then moves when the wheel straightens. It has caused problems for me more than once. Sure in an extreme corner I can see how it could potentially help...but then again most of the time when going fast in a corner it is on purpose and not unintentional.

We really need to find a way to disable this damn thing on the GenPU AND keep the power steering functioning like normal.

[Pedal-Force]

I think I'd rather have the SWAS disabled than have working power steering. But it's close. Since I have a toggle, I might leave the SWAS turned on unless I want to do logs or screw around.

[Tokay444]

I remember when cars didn't have ps

[Pedal-Force]

Yeah, cars also tended to weigh less, weren't FWD, and didn't have big wide tires. They also had systems that were designed to not have power steering. This car is a bit of a bear at low speeds, honestly. It was obviously designed to have power steering.

I grew up learning to drive stick on a 1985 Alfa Romeo Spider, which didn't have power steering. But the car also weighed all of 2200 lbs, had a big steering wheel, RWD, and was designed for no power steering.

[Pedal-Force]

So if you check the shop manual it shows that the SWAS is part of the logic circuit for the electric power steering.

The code we need to get rid of is C1938 in order to have the lights on the dash go off I think. I tried two other codes, but neither worked.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Pedal-Force So if anyone is interested in exactly how to put a switch in (I've gotten a PM asking for clarification). Buy a simple SPST (single pole single switch) toggle switch from Radio Shack or wherever. You can also use a rocker, or a push button. I wouldn't recommend a lighted one because I'm not sure where to find a 12V down there, and also because some of those switches only have three terminals. A +V, a GND, and an ACC. So in order to get light, you have to tie the thing you want to switch into +12V, which isn't what we want. If you can find a proper GND and 12V source down there, and get a 4 terminal SPST switch, feel free to get a lit switch, although you'll be putting it in an invisible place anyway. Unplug the sensor plug as shown earlier. Cut the tubing around the wires back some so you can get at the wires. Pick a wire from the sensor plug, and cut it about halfway between the sensor and the edge of where you can see it come out of the tubing. It probably doesn't matter what wire you pick. I tested them all, and most are 0V DC. One is .3 V, probably the power for the chips. One is ground, and the rest are probably signal. I picked the power one, but it doesn't matter. Get a couple feet of wire (18-20 AWG stranded is probably best, approximate match for the sensor wires). Cut it in half and strip each end. Strip the two ends of the sensor wire that you cut. Take out the third screw and completely remove the bottom piece of plastic from the steering column. Drill a hole in the bottom the size necessary for your switch that you've bought. Make sure you don't drill it in the inset where the tilt handle goes, unless your switch is short enough to clear it. Before you install the switch, solder one end of each of the long wires that you cut to the terminals on the switch. Then install the switch in the plastic. Heatshrink those connections (or electrical tape if you can't heatshrink, but I'd really recommend heatshrink, electrical tape gets nasty after a while). Then slide heatshrink on the long wires and solder one end of each to the cut ends of the sensor wires. Slide the heatshrink over the connections and solder. If 1 foot is gonna be too long, you can cut them to length before you solder, I didn't measure, I just used some pieces of wire I had. Plug the sensor back in, turn the ignition on and see if your switch works. With the toggle off you'll have no SWAS so the lights will be on. If you switch it ON after it has been OFF, the car will still think it has a problem until you turn the car on/off again. If it's working, put the plastic cover back on the steering column, and tighten it up. You're done. Simple.

Can you please take some pictures of this set-up? I'm looking into doing a similar switch myself.

[G26]

Lol, only mazda would tie that shit into the power steering. I think I am going to keep mine plugged in, until there is a fix that isn't kind of ghetto (come on cobb you can dooo eeeet)

[Pedal-Force]

Originally Posted by adlpb Can you please take some pictures of this set-up? I'm looking into doing a similar switch myself.

Pictures of what? There's not much to take pictures of.

Step 1: Disconnect SWAS
Step 2: cut one of the SWAS wires
Step 3: solder a toggle switch in between said wire ends
Step 4: Drill a hole in the steering column for said switch
Step 5: install said switch in said steering column
Step 6: put shit back together
Step 7: go do donuts because you can.

[adlpb]

I just wanted to see your setup (switch location) to compare to what I was thinking of but thanks anyway

[djuosnteisn]

On the gen 1's, the switch boxes by the DSC to the left of the steering wheel pop out real easy. I'll probably put my switch there if i get around to it this weekend.