cp-e stage 2 RMM Review/walkthrough

[tc0308]

I think I was being overly paranoid. Mount is holding up great, and the noise is about the same with the radio on!!

[Raymond]

Has anyone installed this on a Eurospec Mazda3 MPS?

[dewey11x]

Love this thread. Helped me out a lot with the visual of putting this in. I am one day 2. I love it so far. Thank you again!!

[Reedy]

Mine arrived in the mail today. and i'll be installing it tomorrow. I do have one question that was asked earlier in this thread but not answered:

Which way up does the wishbone piece go?

The pictures in the instructions show it assembled with the smaller bushing facing up, but the pictures on the website have it the other way around. Can we get a confirmation on which way it is supposed to go?

My assumption is that it goes in with the large bushing facing down, that way you can read the engraved torque setting and CP-e Logo after its installed, but making assumptions is generally a bad idea.

[Grumpyjap]

Originally Posted by Grumpyjap The RMM should just slip out now. With the cp-e logo facing down. Slide the new solid RMM into place:

Originally Posted by Reedy Mine arrived in the mail today. and i'll be installing it tomorrow. I do have one question that was asked earlier in this thread but not answered: Which way up does the wishbone piece go? The pictures in the instructions show it assembled with the smaller bushing facing up, but the pictures on the website have it the other way around. Can we get a confirmation on which way it is supposed to go? My assumption is that it goes in with the large bushing facing down, that way you can read the engraved torque setting and CP-e Logo after its installed, but making assumptions is generally a bad idea.

As I stated in the OP logo side down

[Reedy]

Is that officially documented anywhere tho? I'm just surprised the instructions don't make any mention of it. The newer ones look quite different as well, whether or not that is purely aesthetics I don't know.

[El_Diablo]

Logo down.....

[tc0308]

Cp-e specifically states earlier in the thread logo down.

[Reedy]

Fuck. The potato is strong in me today. I read the whole thread yesterday but still failed to notice.

Please carry on, nothing to see here.

Ps. Suggest CPe add it to their instructions to prevent derps like me.

[mituc]

Did anyone try a Stage1 RMM and the Stage2 mount bracket? I have a CP-E 60duro RMM on a shelf somewhere but I had to take it off because the bushing was squeaking (bolt torqued to 110Nm, that's about 80lf*ft). I'm thinking that with two good bushings there the engine movement will still be minimal and that the second bushing will take some of the extra vibes away.

is this setup even feasible or it's prone to too much movement? I still want something as quiet as the factory mount + CS inserts but as stiff as a stage1 60duro mount (which is fine for me).

[theurgy]

Anyone notice the class 8.8 bolt?

[tc0308]

I actually replaced. The 8.8 with a stronger bolt. They actually only came in a pack of 5 so I have 4 black 10.9 bolts laying around

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by tc0308 I actually replaced. The 8.8 with a stronger bolt. They actually only came in a pack of 5 so I have 4 black 10.9 bolts laying around

Send me one?

Sent from my giant i317 Pocket Monster

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Raymond Has anyone installed this on a Eurospec Mazda3 MPS?

To answer my own question, it will fit.

I was thinking about making a new thread, but I'll just put my experience here.

I installed this RMM today and I have to say I really like it.

I was using the CS inserts for a couple of weeks now, and it improved things a bit. Better shifting, reduced engine slop, and pretty much no added vibrations. But it didn't help wheel hop one bit. Plus I had my first engine smacking the firewall experience while having the inserts, and it was then that i decided to go upgrade my RMM for sure. And the design if this Stage 2 RMM just seems to be the best.

When I installed it today and I got ready to start my car I was thinking about all this vibration talks and rattling dashboards. I started it and drove around a bit and now I understand how the vibrations feel everyone is talking about, they really don't bother me that much. Especially considering the benefits this RMM brings. It still needs to break in so I will get into the vibrations in more detail when I have driven enough miles to make a conclusion, but even now they really aren't that bad. Just like everyone says, a bit at low RPM's and at idle with A/C on, but no rattling or anything.

Shifting? God it shifts great now. It's so smooth, such a lot less engine slop. Wheel hop is pretty much completely gone, no smacking of the engine. It also feels a lot more connected to the road. It really improves the drivability of the car a lot.

This RMM really gets the job done for me at the moment.

[Raymond]

Quick update:

I have driven about 450 miles with it, vibes have settled down a bit. Low RPM vibes are there, and also at idle with A/C on of course, but they really don't bother me at all.

Shifting still is great, although it is a little bit less smooth then when I just installed it.

I do have to say that the (stock) exhaust drone caused by the RMM is very annoying. I have a lot of long drives on the highway, I usually drive around 100 mph, and the drone above 3k RPM really is unbearable on a long drive.

I torqued the bolts to 85 ftlbs like CP-E suggested, I will torque them to 70 ftlbs and hope that makes a difference. If that doesn't help I will give it 1000 more miles maximum.

Anyone else had this really loud droning?

[joepauker]

I have never had loud droning..

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by joepauker I have never had loud droning..

Do you have a genwon and a stock exhaust?

[Raymond]

I just wanted to say that I have gone back to the OEM RMM with the inserts. The higher RPM drone it creates really was too annoying for me as a DD. The low RPM and idle vibes really don't bother me, they are so rare and faint after break in. But from about 3.5k RPM the drone and the vibes come and make the plastic cover of my rearview mirror and a couple other things rattle.

Until about 80 mph when driving normally I only notice the improvements it gives.It's just that I drive a lot on the highway, and it's just too annoying to drive at like 100 mph for longer periods with a constant drone, things rattling and for some reason it makes my the inside of my ear itch.

I do have to say that the Stage 2 RMM made the car a lot more solid feeling, shifting is really a delight, and even though it only seemed to completely erase wheel hop on the first day I had this RMM, the wheelhop after break in was a lot less often and intense.

I guess I just have a vagina, but I'm sticking with the inserts at the moment and take a bit more engine slop and a little less better shifting, and keep it nice and quiet. Cruising on the highway and just hearing the wind and my music gets my preference.

[Ace]

I drive a lot of highway miles as well but I'm usually in the 60-75mph range. Was there a drone or vibration in that range? I got rid of my other 70duro RMM because the drone/vibration around that speed and 2.7k-3.2k RPM range was unbearable. I'm currently using inserts in the stock RMM as well but wanted to find something with a bit more performance.

Driving 100mph for long periods must be awesome on your commute..lol

Originally Posted by Raymond I just wanted to say that I have gone back to the OEM RMM with the inserts. The higher RPM drone it creates really was too annoying for me as a DD. The low RPM and idle vibes really don't bother me, they are so rare and faint after break in. But from about 3.5k RPM the drone and the vibes come and make the plastic cover of my rearview mirror and a couple other things rattle. Until about 80 mph when driving normally I only notice the improvements it gives.It's just that I drive a lot on the highway, and it's just too annoying to drive at like 100 mph for longer periods with a constant drone, things rattling and for some reason it makes my the inside of my ear itch. I do have to say that the Stage 2 RMM made the car a lot more solid feeling, shifting is really a delight, and even though it only seemed to completely erase wheel hop on the first day I had this RMM, the wheelhop after break in was a lot less often and intense. I guess I just have a vagina, but I'm sticking with the inserts at the moment and take a bit more engine slop and a little less better shifting, and keep it nice and quiet. Cruising on the highway and just hearing the wind and my music gets my preference.

[Reedy]

I have used the Inserts and the Sure one in the past and the S2 mount has considerably more vibrations in the 3000rpm range. The idle/aircon vibes are basically eliminated but the vibes at 3000rpm are definitely noticable.

[SarcasticOne]

Apparently, 3000rpm is when the engine is most unbalanced...

[Reedy]

Right in the sweet spot of our torque curve too!

[El_Diablo]

Never noticed an issue with my S2 RMM.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Ace I drive a lot of highway miles as well but I'm usually in the 60-75mph range. Was there a drone or vibration in that range? I got rid of my other 70duro RMM because the drone/vibration around that speed and 2.7k-3.2k RPM range was unbearable. I'm currently using inserts in the stock RMM as well but wanted to find something with a bit more performance. Driving 100mph for long periods must be awesome on your commute..lol

I think I begin starting a faint drone from just below 3k. And then it just intensifies as the RPM's go up. I just want to add that these drones I'm talking about, are when I'm cruising. With shifting and decelerating the drone (the higher the RPM the louder the drone) is also there. Didn't really like that either, but I could live with that. But things rattling and a constant drone when cruising is a bit too much for me.

I'm also still on the search for a different RMM, the inserts soften pretty quickly.

These 100 mph drives are not for my commute unfortunately I couldn't even get to that speed if I wanted to with all the traffic we have here. But I do drive fast whenever I get the chance lol.

Originally Posted by Reedy I have used the Inserts and the Sure one in the past and the S2 mount has considerably more vibrations in the 3000rpm range. The idle/aircon vibes are basically eliminated but the vibes at 3000rpm are definitely noticable.

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne Apparently, 3000rpm is when the engine is most unbalanced...

Originally Posted by Reedy Right in the sweet spot of our torque curve too!

I personnally don't have like a 3k hotspot whereafter the NVH dies down, it's the point where I can begin to hear it and it only intensifies.

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Never noticed an issue with my S2 RMM.

I'm glad it works for you man, I do notice you have a 2nd Gen. Is that right? Maybe that's the difference.



I would really like to hear from other Genwon owners with a stock exhaust, OEM side mounts, who also have this RMM and have any thoughts or suggestions. It would be much appreciated.

[El_Diablo]

Gen2 w/ a catless DP and stock catback. OEM side mounts for now.

[Nliiitend1]

I don't find it to be an issue...

I've got a GenJuan with the Stage 2 RMM and OEM side mounts with the OEM catback and a testpipe.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 I don't find it to be an issue... I've got a GenJuan with the Stage 2 RMM and OEM side mounts with the OEM catback and a testpipe.

Thanks, exactly the same as me.

Do you experience the same thing, and it just doesn't bother you?

I mean, do you have like a 3k hotspot, and after that it dies down?

Or does it intensifies like in my case, and makes the plastic cover of your rearview mirror and other stuff rattle?

Really trying to determine if it's something else wrong with my car, so I can fix it and use this RMM, or if it's something everyone experiences.

I would really like running something better then just inserts, changing them every 3.5k miles is not really a great solution. But somehow it just seems to be an either vibs and performance, or an NVH comfort and engine slop choice. Not really something in between. Really hoped this S2 RMM was that in between with the different design, which I still like and find logical.

[Nliiitend1]

I do not experience any resonance-related rattling around 3K RPM.

[08.5MS3]

Being fully mounted, I notice a lot of vibrations around 2,300-3,000 RPM while DECELERATING. I recall reading this is where our motors are most "unbalanced," as most 4 bangers are, hence the balance shaft. It's normal, however, I'd check periodically to ensure the bushings are holding up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by 08.5MS3 Being fully mounted, I notice a lot of vibrations around 2,300-3,000 RPM while DECELERATING. I recall reading this is where our motors are most "unbalanced," as most 4 bangers are, hence the balance shaft. It's normal, however, I'd check periodically to ensure the bushings are holding up.

That seems like a very annoying RPM range to have a lot of vibrations, don't know if this is your DD.

I guess this whole RMM (and side mounts) really is something where preferences seem to vary a lot.

Edit: Even with caps on I managed to completely miss you said while decelerating, or did you edit that?

[08.5MS3]

Originally Posted by Raymond That seems like a very annoying RPM range to have a lot of vibrations, don't know if this is your DD. I guess this whole RMM (and side mounts) really is something where preferences seem to vary a lot.

It's only prominent during deceleration, otherwise it's relatively smooth all-things-considered. Yes, this is my daily.

[jk_ms3]

Originally Posted by Raymond That seems like a very annoying RPM range to have a lot of vibrations, don't know if this is your DD. I guess this whole RMM (and side mounts) really is something where preferences seem to vary a lot.

I'm sure you know this, but you've got to figure out what you want out of your car. Think of a continuum with Comfort on one side and Performance on the other. The more you slide toward one, the more you slide away from the other. That's just how it is. From what I hear, the cp-e stage 2 RMM is about the best blend of comfort and performance that you'll find. (I would have gone with it if it wasn't so expensive!) Is it possible you installed it in the wrong order? I've heard that can increase NVH if you don't install the parts in the right order.

But if you're driving 100+mph on a regular basis, you should probably err on the "performance" side of things and just suck it up. You bought a racecar, not a Lexus.

[Grumpyjap]

I've had this mount on for over a year, the car now has 106K+ miles on it and this is my daily driver. I drive about 30 minutes to and from work, highway and back roads I don;t experience any rattling or drone around the 3K rpm range, only when decelerating like @08.5MS3; stated above. I think @jk_ms3; hit the nail on the head with his statement above.
Just keep in mind with more horsepower comes more noise, no upgraded full replacement mount is going to be like stock, if you're going to upgrade suspension expect a harsher ride. It's all normal

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jk_ms3 I'm sure you know this, but you've got to figure out what you want out of your car. Think of a continuum with Comfort on one side and Performance on the other. The more you slide toward one, the more you slide away from the other. That's just how it is. From what I hear, the cp-e stage 2 RMM is about the best blend of comfort and performance that you'll find. (I would have gone with it if it wasn't so expensive!) Is it possible you installed it in the wrong order? I've heard that can increase NVH if you don't install the parts in the right order. But if you're driving 100+mph on a regular basis, you should probably err on the "performance" side of things and just suck it up. You bought a racecar, not a Lexus.

Originally Posted by Grumpyjap I've had this mount on for over a year, the car now has 106K+ miles on it and this is my daily driver. I drive about 30 minutes to and from work, highway and back roads I don;t experience any rattling or drone around the 3K rpm range, only when decelerating like @08.5MS3; stated above. I think @jk_ms3; hit the nail on the head with his statement above. Just keep in mind with more horsepower comes more noise, no upgraded full replacement mount is going to be like stock, if you're going to upgrade suspension expect a harsher ride. It's all normal

Thanks for your input guys.

I understand what you guys are telling me, and it being a continuum is something that really seems to describe it the best. Was just wondering if this droning is something that everyone experiences, or if something's wrong with my car.

Just to be clear, of course I understand this is more of a race car, that's what I like about it. I don't need my car to be super smooth like a Lexus or something. But I do also really like the comfort the car has, or else I would've bought a WRX or Evo or something.

This RMM just seems to make the car give in too much on the comfort side for me personally.

On the other hand, these inserts are a bit too much on the comfort side, so I'm really still looking, maybe I'll try a brick type of RMM or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still trying to figure out if I can run this S2 RMM somehow without the droning when cruising, because I really like the way it makes the car very solid feeling.

[jk_ms3]

Originally Posted by Raymond Thanks for your input guys. I understand what you guys are telling me, and it being a continuum is something that really seems to describe it the best. Was just wondering if this droning is something that everyone experiences, or if something's wrong with my car. Just to be clear, of course I understand this is more of a race car, that's what I like about it. I don't need my car to be super smooth like a Lexus or something. But I do also really like the comfort the car has, or else I would've bought a WRX or Evo or something. This RMM just seems to make the car give in too much on the comfort side for me personally. On the other hand, these inserts are a bit too much on the comfort side, so I'm really still looking, maybe I'll try a brick type of RMM or something. Don't get me wrong, I'm still trying to figure out if I can run this S2 RMM somehow without the droning when cruising, because I really like the way it makes the car very solid feeling.

How many miles was it on your car? I have a different RMM, but it took 500 miles to start to break in, 1500 before it really felt good, and now that I'm at 3000 it's a pussycat. I can't speak to how the cp-e one breaks in, but it could just take a bit more patience before you get what you're looking for.

[Grumpyjap]

Originally Posted by Raymond Thanks for your input guys. I understand what you guys are telling me, and it being a continuum is something that really seems to describe it the best. Was just wondering if this droning is something that everyone experiences, or if something's wrong with my car. Just to be clear, of course I understand this is more of a race car, that's what I like about it. I don't need my car to be super smooth like a Lexus or something. But I do also really like the comfort the car has, or else I would've bought a WRX or Evo or something. This RMM just seems to make the car give in too much on the comfort side for me personally. On the other hand, these inserts are a bit too much on the comfort side, so I'm really still looking, maybe I'll try a brick type of RMM or something. Don't get me wrong, I'm still trying to figure out if I can run this S2 RMM somehow without the droning when cruising, because I really like the way it makes the car very solid feeling.

Originally Posted by jk_ms3 How many miles was it on your car? I have a different RMM, but it took 500 miles to start to break in, 1500 before it really felt good, and now that I'm at 3000 it's a pussycat. I can't speak to how the cp-e one breaks in, but it could just take a bit more patience before you get what you're looking for.

Like @jk_ms3; said it all depends on how hard you drive the car and how many miles you put on it. The cp-e mounts take some time to break in as with all full replacement mounts, the more you beat on it the less time it takes to break in. If you're kind of cruising doing normal driving it will take a long time to break in as the mount isn;t really getting used as it was designed to be used. My suggestion is to sell the stage 2 and buy the stage 1 cp-e mount. Any other full replacement RMM with urethane you're going to hate. There are a bunch of used cp-e stage 1 RMM for sale
Not sure if you have facebook or if you're part of this group, but there's a guy that's selling a used stage 1 RMM with brand new bushing for $100
https://www.facebook.com/groups/288666757859281/

But personally I don;t like buying used parts. I like having the warranty. especially with wear items like RMMs

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Grumpyjap Like @jk_ms3; said it all depends on how hard you drive the car and how many miles you put on it. The cp-e mounts take some time to break in as with all full replacement mounts, the more you beat on it the less time it takes to break in. If you're kind of cruising doing normal driving it will take a long time to break in as the mount isn;t really getting used as it was designed to be used. My suggestion is to sell the stage 2 and buy the stage 1 cp-e mount. Any other full replacement RMM with urethane you're going to hate. There are a bunch of used cp-e stage 1 RMM for sale Not sure if you have facebook or if you're part of this group, but there's a guy that's selling a used stage 1 RMM with brand new bushing for $100 https://www.facebook.com/groups/288666757859281/ But personally I don;t like buying used parts. I like having the warranty. especially with wear items like RMMs

I really appreciate the help Grumpy, like with the silicone tip I asked you about a while ago. That was also really helpful. So thanks a lot.

About the urethane vs rubber, I was indeed thinking of going rubber if I was going for a brick type of RMM so probably the CP-E S1. Although I'm not really sure if people still have problems with them, or if it was indeed a bad batch they had.

I do want to point out one more time that it's not a 3k RPM area hotspot while cruising what everyone is talking about, I would just go a bit faster or slower to avoid that RPM range.

It starts just under 3k and increases while RPM's go up and between 3.5 and 4k RPM, it's pretty damn loud, which is the RPM range I mostly cruise on the highway. If it was just when decelerating, shifting, and accelerating, fine. But cruising 1 or 1.5 hours with that amount of NVH is just too much.

It seems to be only me that experiences this, so I will give this RMM some more time to let it settle in. I have about 1500 miles on the S2 RMM, thought the break in period was 1000 miles, so I thought I give it an extra 500 just to be sure.

A good amount of those miles are indeed on the highway, but I have also did a lot of good WOT runs and good shifting, and enjoying the performance this RMM brings, so it's not like it's been treated softly.

But I'll just give it another go, and if it stays the same I'll just try the 60 duro S1 RMM or something.

I'll keep you guys updated, thanks again for your input.

[08.5MS3]

Bolts are torqued to spec? Alignment of bolts was good and not forced when installing?

Having taken a bit more notice to my vibrations, it's more prominent with the AC on and is virtually non-existent without it on; however, it's obviously more than stock (again, all relative).

As for their Stage I mount, I had one installed for a long while and had zero issues. It was the 75 duro.

[Grumpyjap]

Originally Posted by Raymond I really appreciate the help Grumpy, like with the silicone tip I asked you about a while ago. That was also really helpful. So thanks a lot. About the urethane vs rubber, I was indeed thinking of going rubber if I was going for a brick type of RMM so probably the CP-E S1. Although I'm not really sure if people still have problems with them, or if it was indeed a bad batch they had. I do want to point out one more time that it's not a 3k RPM area hotspot while cruising what everyone is talking about, I would just go a bit faster or slower to avoid that RPM range. It starts just under 3k and increases while RPM's go up and between 3.5 and 4k RPM, it's pretty damn loud, which is the RPM range I mostly cruise on the highway. If it was just when decelerating, shifting, and accelerating, fine. But cruising 1 or 1.5 hours with that amount of NVH is just too much. It seems to be only me that experiences this, so I will give this RMM some more time to let it settle in. I have about 1500 miles on the S2 RMM, thought the break in period was 1000 miles, so I thought I give it an extra 500 just to be sure. A good amount of those miles are indeed on the highway, but I have also did a lot of good WOT runs and good shifting, and enjoying the performance this RMM brings, so it's not like it's been treated softly. But I'll just give it another go, and if it stays the same I'll just try the 60 duro S1 RMM or something. I'll keep you guys updated, thanks again for your input.

I'm always here to help. What other mods do you have on the car?

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Grumpyjap I'm always here to help. What other mods do you have on the car?

That's what I was wondering, too. I'm a proponent for the CS inserts (yeah, shoot me) because I don't get vibes, wheel hop, or bang off the firewall while making 300/350. Maybe he's making more power and/or has more grip than my OEM Dunflops.

This mount was my first choice if I ever had to get a "real" mount. I've taken rides in other mounted rides at Nator meets, and none of them were vibing at 3K+ RPM like @Raymond; is describing - it was all at idle and gone by 2k RPM, or on deceleration which is pretty much unavoidable.

I guess the real question is did going back to inserts and the stock mount get rid of the high RPM vibes? I was thinking it might be a missing wheel weight or bent wheel, etc.

It's too bad we can't use adaptive shock absorbers that go fully stiff under WOT - that would be magic (and stupidly expensive).