Intake Manifold

[06Speed6]

Where is it?

[phillyb]

also wouldn't mind seeing pics of the ex mani they had at occ.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by phillyb also wouldn't mind seeing pics of the ex mani they had at occ.

Definitely.

[SilverDemon]

I had both prototypes in my hands at the dyno day they put on back in march.....Deff nice stuff...

[8.5MS3]

they looked purrdy at occ

[Alpha]

Damn, so they ARE coming out with an intake manifold?

[Nataphen]

I would guess that the gen 2s IM is the same. Is that correct?

[8.5MS3]

wait for it












fuck genpu



yes i believe they are the same

[wankular]

Shouldn't they finish the side mounts first?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by wankular Shouldn't they finish the side mounts first?

Forget the side mounts! Haha! EVERYONE wants an aftermarket IM!

[wankular]

It would be smart to corner 100% of the market.

[Nataphen]

I need to do some more research to see if the SB has enough flexibility on the gen 2 to support all of these parts. I will build a motor again one day, I can't stand just doing bolt-on shit. It's been too long since I really got my hands dirty.

Apparently though, all that I need to be duped is a glove box light. Still reeling over that mistake.

[SneakyP86]

^^^ ??? ^^^

[Nataphen]

Originally Posted by SneakyP86 ^^^ ??? ^^^

I've worked on cars all of my life, but I was obviously wearing my fail hat yesterday...

Link:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...working-59339/

[Alpha]

[wankular]

They want to wait until they use up all those glossy, postcard advertisements with the IM drawing. Do you know how much it costs to print those things?

[madvillain]

Yes pwease

[the_caruch]

can haz picturz?

[madvillain]

We have any info yet?

[xcoldricex]

PICTURE

[8.5MS3]

for the guys that never saw it, old pic from a couple months ago of the 3D rapid prototype

[shadesofgray19]

A couple months? Wasn't that taken like almost a year ago? You think they could move a little faster with this. What good is a rapid prototype if it takes years (exaggerated) to get it into production. Rapid implies some sense of urgency and speed.

[xcoldricex]

yes, to make the prototype, not the actual product.

hopefully that will accommodate larger tb's

[Nataphen]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex hopefully that will accommodate larger tb's

+1. Does anyone even make an option for a larger TB for the MS3, or do you just have to port the OEM one?

[xcoldricex]

port or maxbore.

[Alpha]

Porting is our only option as of now, but there are far better options than Maxbore just FYI.

[socks]

Originally Posted by Alpha Porting is our only option as of now, but there are far better options than Maxbore just FYI.

like?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by socks like?

Muah ah ahhh!!! Every car I've owned or touched has had Mark Shaner's portwork done to the TB. (02 SS, 03 Z06, 2010 Maxima, 06 MS6, 02 Formula WS6...) He's hands down the best I've ever seen or used. Porting is an art, like headwork, and Mark has it DOWN for whatever you need.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 adding .118" to a 2.362" tb to make it 2.48" is really a joke, we really need a 80mm+ tb. You cant even do flow numbers on that full 2.48" because you have to subtract the blade and shaft from the area and add in additional turbulance. About a year ago I calculated that the stock tb without the blade and shaft could flow 427hp @ 25psi before it was saturated. 0.278716sq" is the approximate area of the blade and shaft. 4.381770911113554sq" is the area of the TB bore. 4.1030549111sq" is the net available area that we can flow air. The blade and shaft equal ~6% of the total available area, so if we take 427hp * .94 = 401.38hp before saturation at 25psi. For the Maxbore tb, which is 63mm or 2.48" 0.292888sq" is the approximate area of the blade and shaft. 4.830512864159666sq" is the area of the TB bore. 4.537624864159666sq" is the net available area that we can flow air. The blade and shaft still equal ~6% of the total available area. The net increase in blade and shaft area is ~5% The net increase in bore size is about 10.2% The net increase in air flow area is ~9.8% 401.38hp for the stock TB 440.71hp for the Maxbore TB So why did I say it was laughable? Because I calculated that based on compounding uncertainty. In a perfect world it would actually flow that much more, but in this world it doesnt flow more than probably 20hp more air.

I think it's more of an "Every little bit adds up" type mods. Like reducing rotating weight, underdrive pullies, etc.

[xcoldricex]

Originally Posted by Alpha Muah ah ahhh!!! Every car I've owned or touched has had Mark Shaner's portwork done to the TB. (02 SS, 03 Z06, 2010 Maxima, 06 MS6, 02 Formula WS6...) He's hands down the best I've ever seen or used. Porting is an art, like headwork, and Mark has it DOWN for whatever you need.

$? it's just a tb, i don't see how much more you can get out of the stock one. if there isn't enough material you can't just make it bigger out of nothing.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex $? it's just a tb, i don't see how much more you can get out of the stock one. if there isn't enough material you can't just make it bigger out of nothing.

Porting isn't just about making something "Bigger." It's about velocity and efficiency.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Considering they dont even read threads in their own forum, maybe never. I got my hands on a copy of solid works 2010 and I have been playing around with it, worst case ill have a IM designed before 2012 lol.

I teach 3D modeling here in Chicago as well as work full time as an engineer using Solidworks and Inventor everyday. Fun stuff!

[Nataphen]

Does anyone know how much of flow improvement Maxbore porting offers compared to stock? That's the last OT question I'll ask. Or I can just search it if you guys know of one on here.

[xcoldricex]

search - it's 63mm vs. 60mm. significant improvement.

[06Speed6]

adding .118" to a 2.362" tb to make it 2.48" is really a joke, we really need a 80mm+ tb. You cant even do flow numbers on that full 2.48" because you have to subtract the blade and shaft from the area and add in additional turbulance. About a year ago I calculated that the stock tb without the blade and shaft could flow 427hp @ 25psi before it was saturated.

0.278716sq" is the approximate area of the blade and shaft.
4.381770911113554sq" is the area of the TB bore.
4.1030549111sq" is the net available area that we can flow air.

The blade and shaft equal ~6% of the total available area, so if we take 427hp * .94 = 401.38hp before saturation at 25psi.

For the Maxbore tb, which is 63mm or 2.48"

0.292888sq" is the approximate area of the blade and shaft.
4.830512864159666sq" is the area of the TB bore.
4.537624864159666sq" is the net available area that we can flow air.

The blade and shaft still equal ~6% of the total available area.
The net increase in blade and shaft area is ~5%
The net increase in bore size is about 10.2%
The net increase in air flow area is ~9.8%

401.38hp for the stock TB
440.71hp for the Maxbore TB

So why did I say it was laughable? Because I calculated that based on compounding uncertainty. In a perfect world it would actually flow that much more, but in this world it doesnt flow more than probably 20hp more air.

[Nataphen]

20hp gain for a throttle body is pretty respectable for any car. I really wouldn't expect it to gain THAT much, more like 10-15hp, which is still worth it IMO. When you're talking about an engine with 300-400hp, 20 extra hp is a noticeable difference. When you start getting to the point that traction is a bigger issue than the power that you're putting down, 20hp isn't a big deal. I obviously wouldn't do this before all the typical bolt-ons, but if I was going to change intake manifolds, I'd probably go ahead and do the TB too.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Nataphen 20hp gain for a throttle body is pretty respectable for any car. I really wouldn't expect it to gain THAT much, more like 10-15hp, which is still worth it IMO. When you're talking about an engine with 300-400hp, 20 extra hp is a noticeable difference. When you start getting to the point that traction is a bigger issue than the power that you're putting down, 20hp isn't a big deal. I obviously wouldn't do this before all the typical bolt-ons, but if I was going to change intake manifolds, I'd probably go ahead and do the TB too.

Definitely, but I think he's referring to the flow potential of handling 20 more hp, not that a TB itself would NET a 20hp gain.

Either way, I had mine done and matched to my MAP manifold. Should be nice!

[Nataphen]

Ah, I see. So, if you're at 400hp, then you may see the gains because the TB could be totally maxed out, got it. Oops

[madvillain]

I can has a cp-e IM with an 80mm TB option?

[xcoldricex]

probably... in 2012

[06Speed6]

Considering they dont even read threads in their own forum, maybe never.

I got my hands on a copy of solid works 2010 and I have been playing around with it, worst case ill have a IM designed before 2012 lol.

[06Speed6]

I have tought myself to use alot of software, but never anything as complicated as solid works, it should be fun =)