GB: GROUND CONTROL + KONI SPORT Coilovers for Mazdaspeed 3!

[daafisch]

Donovan sent me that same pic back on August 19th and told me they had a tentative release date of September 1st. Nice to see they are finally testing them on a car.

[justinsane87]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1412800248.368458.jpg

Now how about a discount on springs that are actually matched to the konis

[Atomic41]

Will they go soon Ground Control with their front camber plate for our Speed3 ?

[Adog35]

I haven't been very active on the forums lately but I must
Say I am not very happy with my GC set up.

Konis+ 525/600 spring rate. It was the least aggressive options
they offered when paired with the konis.

I had them installed and cornered balanced by West End.

The car really just rides like crap on these roads. I really feel it's
way over sprung for the Koni's.

I see that other members seem to be saying the samething.
What is the solution?
/

[Helrich]

I just softened mine up last night, 1 turn from full soft on all corners, and it's noticeably better.

[Adog35]

I have tried adjusted the them every which way.
The Koni's just aren't suited for such a high spring rate. The ride just falls apart on poor road surfaced. Especially on transitions between types of surface or dips in the roads. I might call GC and order a lower spring rate.

I would love to hear feerback from other member who have done the same.

[justinsane87]

The ride is terrible in my car too, definitely need softer springs. On bumpy roads my ass will literally come off the seat.

Oh and GC sent me two sets of spring cups lol

[JDMJOSH]

I'm going to wait and see what's going on with these camber plates but I'll probably end up getting 440f 525r. I'm on the stiffer side with these shocks and while it's a bit better than it was out of the box, it's still too much

[[R]usty]

@Adog35;
@justinsane87;
@JDMJOSH;

Welcome to the life of linear springs and little suspension travel. These aren't your every day progressive springs. They don't change rates based on compression they always have the same rate no matter what. It's great for the track not so good for daily roads. I personally believe after some research that Koni Yellow's are perfectly fine in the low 500 range. Anything higher and I do believe you'll need re-valving to keep up. With all that said I still think you guys can find a combo to your liking.

Don't know if you guys saw my post but I'm very happy with the 440f 525r combo. I'm one of the most anal people about comfort so I was very surprised how much I liked the ride quality after all the complaints I've seen. I live in LA and we have some shitty roads here but my kit absorbs bumps surprisingly well. I'm currently sitting at 1/2 turn up front and 2/3 in the back and while it is stiffer it's more comfortable then stock. Also at my current settings I don't bounce around, my car sways against the bumps rather then sticking to every single one (adjustment is key).

I think you guys have a few options.

1. Softer springs, GC offers the 6 inch spring in 300, 375, 440, 525 and 550. You will still get some bounce here because we are still dealing with little suspension travel but I can confirm that adjusting your Koni's will definitely help with that.

2. Longer springs GC offers 7 inch springs in 200 250 350 and 430. With these you will lose some stiffness and an inch of adjustability but you will gain a lot more suspension travel and obviously a softer spring. These will probably yield the most comfort this kit can offer.

3. Switch to a progressive coilover kit (don't give up!)

I think the beauty of this set is you have the option to play around with a lot of different stuff. A new set of spring is only $70. I think you guys should try out some more spring options and let all of us know how it goes. I think this kit can only get better with user input.

edit
I'm still working on getting a thread together with my thoughts and testing. I will be strapping a gopro under my car so we can see exactly how these springs are reacting to everyday road conditions. I may also purchase a full set of 7 inch springs to compare. I'll post here when it's up. I'm a busy man so I have no timeline but I'm hoping it's soon.

[- POD -]

Originally Posted by JDMJOSH I'm going to wait and see what's going on with these camber plates but I'll probably end up getting 440f 525r. I'm on the stiffer side with these shocks and while it's a bit better than it was out of the box, it's still too much

Originally Posted by justinsane87 The ride is terrible in my car too, definitely need softer springs. On bumpy roads my ass will literally come off the seat. Oh and GC sent me two sets of spring cups lol

I've been trying to refrain from commenting, but the longer I keep this kit on my car, and the more I try to adjust it, the more evident it becomes that this combination is simply mismatched. Either the GC springs need to be swapped for a lower rate or the konis need to be revalved to handle the GC springs. At this point, given the money and time spent, I would have been better off going with a different set up.

Live and learn I guess...
@justinsane87; & @JDMJOSH; perhaps we can all call GC and see if they'll do an Edmonton group buy for the 4 (?) Of us who have this kit. Maybe they will give us a break on shipping too.

As for their top hats, I'm not even sure I want to bother with them. My confidence level in GC after all the trouble I've had with this kit is...low.

[Dimenus]

I think @[R]usty; has the right idea. I'm definitely considering dropping to 440/525 or getting the stiffest 7'' springs. I bought these for a mostly daily that AutoX's occasionally. They are phenomonal for AutoX, but over concrete they are stupidly stiff. I even had a fellow driver in AutoX who got in my car and just driving through the parking lot was like "holy shit, these are stiff". So it's not just me.


Edit: Just called up GC and ordered 440s. Not too terrible since you can reuse the 525s. Now i just need to find someone who wants 600s lol.

[phate]

Originally Posted by [R]usty Welcome to the life of linear springs and little suspension travel. These aren't your every day progressive springs. They don't change rates based on compression they always have the same rate no matter what. It's great for the track not so good for daily roads. I personally believe after some research that Koni Yellow's are perfectly fine in the low 500 range. Anything higher and I do believe you'll need re-valving to keep up. With all that said I still think you guys can find a combo to your liking.

I agree with your assessment of the Koni's with the stiffer springs in that they aren't controlling the suspension properly. I'm basing that on the number of people in this thread complaining about them. But, linear springs do not inherently create a poor ride. You can have high sprung mass frequencies while retaining most of your ride quality. Obviously, the chassis will mostly follow any bumps/oscillations that are below the natural frequency of the system, but that's life. That isn't the same as having a crappy ride over bumps, imo.

For comparison, the suspension frequencies for an MS3 on 525/600 lb/in front/rear springs is approx 2.15/2.35Hz front/rear. My car's frequencies are ~2.20/2.50Hz <--That's higher than any of these kits. My car rides firmer than stock, but it sucks up sharp bumps and dips like you wouldn't believe. It is more comfortable than a stock MS3 (yep, I still drive them pretty often), and it's pretty much a full blown autocross setup.

I'm not sure why GC thinks the Koni's are sufficient for that high of rate. It sounds like people either need to get softer springs that are more appropriate for the Koni's, or get better dampers for the high rates. Dampers are an item where you get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by [R]usty 1. Softer springs, GC offers the 6 inch spring in 300, 375, 440, 525 and 550. You will still get some bounce here because we are still dealing with little suspension travel but I can confirm that adjusting your Koni's will definitely help with that. 2. Longer springs GC offers 7 inch springs in 200 250 350 and 430. With these you will lose some stiffness and an inch of adjustability but you will gain a lot more suspension travel and obviously a softer spring. These will probably yield the most comfort this kit can offer. 3. Switch to a progressive coilover kit (don't give up!) I think the beauty of this set is you have the option to play around with a lot of different stuff. A new set of spring is only $70. I think you guys should try out some more spring options and let all of us know how it goes. I think this kit can only get better with user input

I'm not sure I follow. A longer spring of the same rate, at the same ride height, will still have the same amount of available travel assuming bump stops have not been altered in the process. If someone is at max adjustment with the current springs and the car is too low, yes, a longer spring and raising the car is probably a good idea.

I do agree with the softer spring rates, though. Just keep in mind the rate split between the front and rear. Don't go lowering just one end a ton without lowering the other. [The "kit" rates were all pretty good, in terms of split, imo.]

[Dimenus]

Originally Posted by phate I do agree with the softer spring rates, though. Just keep in mind the rate split between the front and rear. Don't go lowering just one end a ton without lowering the other. [The "kit" rates were all pretty good, in terms of split, imo.]

Donovan even said on the phone that 525/600 is too stiff for a car that is mainly daily driver. He said "we intended that spring set to be for people who track their car on most weekends rather than a mostly daily driver". He said I can expect significantly more comfort from this split.

So I'll be going with 440/525 for now.

Are you on Bilsteins @phate; (I'd search but you've made quite a few suspension changes over the course of your ownership of that car )?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dimenus Donovan even said on the phone that 525/600 is too stiff for a car that is mainly daily driver. He said "we intended that spring set to be for people who track their car on most weekends rather than a mostly daily driver". He said I can expect significantly more comfort from this split. So I'll be going with 440/525 for now. Are you on Bilsteins phate (I'd search but you've made quite a few suspension changes over the course of your ownership of that car )?

>2 Hz is stiff, but my argument is that proper damping can make a world of difference in how the car feels. Seriously, I took my mom to lunch a while back and she said it rides better than with softer springs and ots bilsteins. I've had others say the same.

I'm on bilsteins i had revalved for my setup (this all pertains to my MS6, which is why I'm only comparing frequencies and not spring rates). Worth every penny, and I recommend it to anyone who wants better than current ots options.

[- POD -]

Originally Posted by Dimenus Donovan even said on the phone that 525/600 is too stiff for a car that is mainly daily driver. He said "we intended that spring set to be for people who track their car on most weekends rather than a mostly daily driver". He said I can expect significantly more comfort from this split.

This for me (and I think for others) is extremely frustrating.

When the group buy was offered, we were told to select our driving style and spring rates would be provided to match that and the koni's would be adjusted to match the spring rates. This was the only reason I jumped in on the group buy. I selected daily driver and I've got the same 525/600 springs as nearly everyone else.

It begins to feel like false advertising, or at least over promising and under delivering. I'm glad that people have found the softer springs to be a better option, but damn it all it's annoying. Yes, I can spend another $70 to get the softer springs, and another $50 on shipping and $30 on boarder fees, but now I'm throwing another $150 at something that (from what I'm gathering reading all these posts) should have been provided in the first place.

Anyway, it's a long weekend, time to put the sass back in the box and go buy some beer. I appreciate all the posts on spring set ups that actually match the koni's and are better suited to daily driving.

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by phate I'm not sure why GC thinks the Koni's are sufficient for that high of rate. It sounds like people either need to get softer springs that are more appropriate for the Koni's, or get better dampers for the high rates. Dampers are an item where you get what you pay for.

I think they were just looking to add another car to their checklist.

Originally Posted by phate I'm not sure I follow. A longer spring of the same rate, at the same ride height, will still have the same amount of available travel assuming bump stops have not been altered in the process. If someone is at max adjustment with the current springs and the car is too low, yes, a longer spring and raising the car is probably a good idea. I do agree with the softer spring rates, though. Just keep in mind the rate split between the front and rear. Don't go lowering just one end a ton without lowering the other. [The "kit" rates were all pretty good, in terms of split, imo.]

The travel is more for the stock height guys like myself. My understanding with a 7" vs 6" spring is the 7 would allow the full travel of the shock. At stock ride height the 6 inch spring doesn't have much to work with. I haven't check yet but I'm not sure the shock is getting full travel before the spring fully compresses. I think the issue is the spring sitting at the very top of the shock body.

Also, I did get Donovan's opinion before I traded in for 440's, he said the 2 rates should work well together so I took his word for it and so far I'm very happy. The ride is stiff but it's also more comfortable then stock (as weird as that sounds).

[Mattyhawk1]

I haven't installed mine yet, and because of that I'm not sure if this will help anyone. I got the softest they had, the 6" 450 F and 6.5" 550 R, said to be for stock shocks.

A couple weeks ago I installed the rear springs only to assess the stiffness. I found the 550 lbs springs too stiff for my liking. I'm a bit of a softy like Rusty, so I put the 450lb from the front in back and it was much better. I'm going to run a slight drop only, so after that one person's issues with springs falling out in the rear and bottoming out the spring on another's car, I ended up with the 430lb 7" all around.

I have yet to reinstall, but my hope is they will be a good fit. Once I get them in, I'll let you all know.

[phate]

Originally Posted by [R]usty The travel is more for the stock height guys like myself. My understanding with a 7" vs 6" spring is the 7 would allow the full travel of the shock. At stock ride height the 6 inch spring doesn't have much to work with. I haven't check yet but y. I think the issue is the spring sitting at the very top of the shock body. Also, I did get Donovan's opinion before I traded in for 440's, he said the 2 rates should work well together so I took his word for it and so far I'm very happy. The ride is stiff but it's also more comfortable then stock (as weird as that sounds).

If the spring is going solid, that's a serious issue. You should be able to see if they're contacting if paint is worn off on the tops and bottoms of the spring wire. I'd expect to see a lot of broken strut bearings if they were going solid, though.

[Mattyhawk1]

Oh this is fun.

Note: I only bought the coil overs, I already had the koni yellows.

I'm installing, and the top threaded cap for the shock is bigger than the ID of the sleeve that goes over it, as in OD of shock is ~2.17" and ID of the sleeve is ~1.81".

Grrrr

I don't know what to think. Does anyone remember the top cap being bigger in diameter than the body?

[Jdraps13]

Originally Posted by justinsane87 The ride is terrible in my car too, definitely need softer springs. On bumpy roads my ass will literally come off the seat. Oh and GC sent me two sets of spring cups lol

can I have the other set mine were lost in damaged package

[justinsane87]

Originally Posted by Jdraps13 can I have the other set mine were lost in damaged package

For sure, I get back next week and will be at tims then

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 Oh this is fun. Note: I only bought the coil overs, I already had the koni yellows. I'm installing, and the top threaded cap for the shock is bigger than the ID of the sleeve that goes over it, as in OD of shock is ~2.17" and ID of the sleeve is ~1.81". Grrrr I don't know what to think. Does anyone remember the top cap being bigger in diameter than the body?

Mine were and I vaguely remember reading some where that certain Koni's needed to be shaved down. Might have even been on the instructions.

[Domino81]

I messaged Koni about re-valving to something more aggressive and they emailed me back basically saying I don't need a re-valving, I need stiffer springs. OK... well, I guess this is my next purchase. I'll have to consider all the options.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by daafisch Mine were and I vaguely remember reading some where that certain Koni's needed to be shaved down. Might have even been on the instructions.

Thanks, and disregard my PM.

Just to be clear, Did you have to shave it?

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 Thanks, and disregard my PM. Just to be clear, Did you have to shave it?

Yes, I had to shave the top nut.

I believe this is where I read about someone else needing to do it. I don't think it was in the instructions.

Ground Control Coilover Kit Install - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by daafisch Yes, I had to shave the top nut. I believe this is where I read about someone else needing to do it. I don't think it was in the instructions. Ground Control Coilover Kit Install - Mazda3 Forums : The #1 Mazda 3 Forum

Exactly what I was looking for. Many thanks!

[nybe0010]

I payed $64 for each spring when i swapped out my 600's for 450's and then with $15 shipping it came out to $143 for 2 springs, so why are people only saying $70!? I just bought them so i could get them sooner and then will be refunded when they got my springs. Also, I spoke with someone from RPM on the phone and he said get the 450's and not the 440's.. He told me you want to decrease the spring rates by the same ratio. So technically a 460 would be best, but they don't make that? lol maybe someone can chime in on that

[phate]

Originally Posted by Domino81 I messaged Koni about re-valving to something more aggressive and they emailed me back basically saying I don't need a re-valving, I need stiffer springs. OK... well, I guess this is my next purchase. I'll have to consider all the options.

I wonder if GC can even revalve koni's. It's not like a Bilstein. In the past, Koni has allowed few shops to rebuild/revalve their dampers.

Originally Posted by nybe0010 I payed $64 for each spring when i swapped out my 600's for 450's and then with $15 shipping it came out to $143 for 2 springs, so why are people only saying $70!? I just bought them so i could get them sooner and then will be refunded when they got my springs. Also, I spoke with someone from RPM on the phone and he said get the 450's and not the 440's.. He told me you want to decrease the spring rates by the same ratio. So technically a 460 would be best, but they don't make that? lol maybe someone can chime in on that

It doesn't have to be exactly the same ratio, especially if you aren't competing with the car (edit: because you'll likely be fine tuning them with different rates, anyway). If you're close, you'll be fine.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by nybe0010 I payed $64 for each spring when i swapped out my 600's for 450's and then with $15 shipping it came out to $143 for 2 springs, so why are people only saying $70!? I just bought them so i could get them sooner and then will be refunded when they got my springs. Also, I spoke with someone from RPM on the phone and he said get the 450's and not the 440's.. He told me you want to decrease the spring rates by the same ratio. So technically a 460 would be best, but they don't make that? lol maybe someone can chime in on that

Yeah, that price has been a bit of a misconception. Price quoted on GC website is per spring, which ends up pricey if you have to swap the springs over to a lower spring rate all around.

Do you mean the 6" 440 springs? There are no 450's listed on GC's website. there are 7" 430 springs.

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by nybe0010 I payed $64 for each spring when i swapped out my 600's for 450's and then with $15 shipping it came out to $143 for 2 springs, so why are people only saying $70!?

Really? I thought it was $70 for a set of 2... damn that sucks. Glad I traded in when I did.


Well for those seeking 7 inch spring but are unsatisfied with the selection GC has to offer take a look a QA1 springs. They're cheaper for one and they have a larger selection of spring rates.

http://www.qa1.net/suspension/spring...d-coil-springs

[461_SS]

You want springs?

2.5" ID 7" Tall

2.5" ID 6" Tall


I haven't had a problem daily driving with the 600F 700R setup. Sure the back settles out quickly, but it really is a comfortable drive otherwise. I also did drive the car with the whole suspension setup in except rear springs and it does make a big difference having a softer spring back there. I have unfortunately failed to autocross my car with the new setup because a deer decided to jump in front of my car earlier in the week....

I also truly think there is too much over analyzing going on here.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by 461_SS You want springs? 2.5" ID 7" Tall 2.5" ID 6" Tall I haven't had a problem daily driving with the 600F 700R setup. Sure the back settles out quickly, but it really is a comfortable drive otherwise. I also did drive the car with the whole suspension setup in except rear springs and it does make a big difference having a softer spring back there. I have unfortunately failed to autocross my car with the new setup because a deer decided to jump in front of my car earlier in the week.... I also truly think there is too much over analyzing going on here.

You autocrossed my car.....

Then again we were on a recently repaved Pocono infield course...

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by 461_SS You want springs? 2.5" ID 7" Tall 2.5" ID 6" Tall

Those 7 inch springs won't work they need to be square on both ends.

[nybe0010]

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 Yeah, that price has been a bit of a misconception. Price quoted on GC website is per spring, which ends up pricey if you have to swap the springs over to a lower spring rate all around. Do you mean the 6" 440 springs? There are no 450's listed on GC's website. there are 7" 430 springs.

@Mattyhawk1; I think the 440 is a GC spec spring. The 450 is just a standard OTS Eibach, or vice versa. Eibach makes springs for GC for their own rates. They do have both in 6" I just received my 450's. Thanks @phate; I didn't think the 10lbs would be that big of a deal

[Domino81]

Originally Posted by phate I wonder if GC can even revalve koni's. It's not like a Bilstein. In the past, Koni has allowed few shops to rebuild/revalve their dampers. It doesn't have to be exactly the same ratio, especially if you aren't competing with the car (edit: because you'll likely be fine tuning them with different rates, anyway). If you're close, you'll be fine.

I'm honestly leaning toward coilovers. Fresh start with new parts (unless I can find a smoking deal on something) and I don't have to modify my existing parts.

[461_SS]

Originally Posted by daafisch You autocrossed my car..... Then again we were on a recently repaved Pocono infield course...

That is why I said my car

Your car was great at pocono! Just need more damn boost in STX to be competitive. Kind of difficult to be competitive against cars that are in CS right off the get go!

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by 461_SS That is why I said my car Your car was great at pocono! Just need more damn boost in STX to be competitive. Kind of difficult to be competitive against cars that are in CS right off the get go!

Car has enough power. It's other aspects that need to be addressed....like the lack of front camber and castor. GC seems to be addressing at least one of those soon though.

[Bap]

So first off the camber plates will be released soon, begging of next week. The price is going to be about $399.00, and that includes the camber plates , a new upper strut mounting nut for added strength, and new adjustment knob. The plates did have the lower portion redesigned when they realized that at full negative camber it was coming in contact with the body of the car. GC will be posting up pics they said as soon as posable for the camber plates. The camber plates are able to go from +.5% to -1.5% on the camber plates.

They did lower the spring rate of the front spring to 440 and took the 525 ones I had in the front and put them in the back and the car has a much better ride and more traction on conner entry and exit. It handles potholes and bumps much more evenly and is less unsettling to the car.

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by Bap So first off the camber plates will be released soon, begging of next week. The price is going to be about $399.00, and that includes the camber plates , a new upper strut mounting nut for added strength, and new adjustment knob. The plates did have the lower portion redesigned when they realized that at full negative camber it was coming in contact with the body of the car. GC will be posting up pics they said as soon as posable for the camber plates. The camber plates are able to go from +.5% to -1.5% on the camber plates.

$400... swing and a miss.

Originally Posted by Bap They did lower the spring rate of the front spring to 440 and took the 525 ones I had in the front and put them in the back and the car has a much bester ride and more traction on conner entry and exit. It handles potholes and bumps much more evenly and is less unsettling to the car.

The 440 525 combo are really great. I love the way they handle and deal with road bumps. Glad they could switch those up for you.

[Crarrs]

Are you able to adjust camber without removing the strut from the car and without expanding the center hole of the strut tower? It looks like it from the photos. If so, these are a win for me over the CS plates, even at the marginally higher cost.

Originally Posted by Bap So first off the camber plates will be released soon, begging of next week. The price is going to be about $399.00, and that includes the camber plates , a new upper strut mounting nut for added strength, and new adjustment knob. The plates did have the lower portion redesigned when they realized that at full negative camber it was coming in contact with the body of the car. GC will be posting up pics they said as soon as posable for the camber plates. The camber plates are able to go from +.5% to -1.5% on the camber plates.

I've spoken to Scott (the guy in AZ running the version 1 prototype plates) multiple times at autocross events over the past year. I was very surprised when he told me he was getting 3.5*, and he didn't know anything about spring/body interference when I mentioned it to him. I'm going to see him again this weekend at another event. I'll see what other info I can get from him (if he's even running the newer plates).