GB: GROUND CONTROL + KONI SPORT Coilovers for Mazdaspeed 3!

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Crarrs Are you able to adjust camber without removing the strut from the car and without expanding the center hole of the strut tower? It looks like it from the photos.

The exact reason I'm excited for them. I have an opportunity for used CS plates but I like the GC design a lot more.

[Bap]

@Crarrs; You do not have to remove the strut to adjust the camber you simply have to loosen the three strut mount bolts and slide the strut either positive or negative and retighten. They just made the new base for the camber plates on monday of this week. The MS3 has a slightly different inner fender wheal than the fender that they did the mock up on so that is the reason for the redesigned.

[Helrich]

Dat $400 tho

[Mattyhawk1]

wow, $400? I was expecting 100 bucks less.

[monkey.bones.007]

You can adjust the camber, at least on the pu, by pushing or pulling the top of the strut by 1.5* to -1.5*. I'm running no camber plates and made a -1* alignment adjustment after I installed my coilovers. Didn't need to pay 399 for it either.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 wow, $400? I was expecting 100 bucks less.

They fall in the same price range as the rest of their plates.

Originally Posted by monkey.bones.007 You can adjust the camber, at least on the pu, by pushing or pulling the top of the strut by 1.5* to -1.5*. I'm running no camber plates and made a -1* alignment adjustment after I installed my coilovers. Didn't need to pay 399 for it either.

I took a crowbar to the top of my struts to utilize the most amount of slack in those holes. I still want more camber for racing. At stock height I MIGHT be at -1.5*. When I had my swift springs installed I was at -1.9* using the same method. Remember that when you lower the car you're going to get more negative camber. So if you were at stock height before that probably aided in you getting more.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by daafisch They fall in the same price range as the rest of their plates.

That's bad on me then, I actually never looked at the cost of the other plates.

[Mattyhawk1]

https://www.racingsprings.com/

Slightly cheaper springs, but bunch of other colors available

[daafisch]

There are a lot of places you can get springs from for cheaper than GC. Pitstop USA has a good selection of springs and I'm sure other places do as well.

[Dimenus]

@[R]usty; You pulled the struts off the car to do the swap right? I thought maybe in my head since the springs aren't compressed with the car on a jack that you might be able to get the tophat off while the struts are still on the car. Sounds like a recipe for disaster though.

[therza2169]

Is anyone getting a crazy amount of clunk/pop noises with this setup? At slow speeds while going over bumpy roads, or turning, or while braking to a stop I am getting a terrible amount of noises that one would normally associate with a bad strut mount/bearing, coming from the front passenger side of the car. I've pulled, and prodded on every thing that I can, and had my mechanic do the same thing and we can not find anything out of the ordinary. Anyone else experiencing something similar?

[JDMJOSH]

Have you tried tightening up your end links? Might help.

[therza2169]

Originally Posted by JDMJOSH Have you tried tightening up your end links? Might help.

End links were tightened down. Sway bar bushings were checked as well.

[- POD -]

Originally Posted by therza2169 Is anyone getting a crazy amount of clunk/pop noises with this setup? At slow speeds while going over bumpy roads, or turning, or while braking to a stop I am getting a terrible amount of noises that one would normally associate with a bad strut mount/bearing, coming from the front passenger side of the car. I've pulled, and prodded on every thing that I can, and had my mechanic do the same thing and we can not find anything out of the ordinary. Anyone else experiencing something similar?

Can't say I've had that problem. I've got no suspension noise at all with this setup (thankfully).

When I first tried to put this kit in I had an endlink I couldn't fully get out and was left loose, that clunked like no other at low speed, while turning, and over bumpy roads. Once it was replaced all noises went away.

[Adog35]

@[R]usty;


I spoke with Donovan at GC. He recommend the same set up you have. 440F 525R. Price he told me was 59$ per spring + shipping.

Did you originally come from 525/600?
Where in Los Angeles are you located?

Originally Posted by therza2169 Is anyone getting a crazy amount of clunk/pop noises with this setup? At slow speeds while going over bumpy roads, or turning, or while braking to a stop I am getting a terrible amount of noises that one would normally associate with a bad strut mount/bearing, coming from the front passenger side of the car. I've pulled, and prodded on every thing that I can, and had my mechanic do the same thing and we can not find anything out of the ordinary. Anyone else experiencing something similar?

I get a lot of chassis creek when going into driveways, speedbumps, or am at a low speed on bad roads. I assume it's related to the minimal travel with a 6" linear spring. Most of the noise Is from my drive side front.

[therza2169]

Originally Posted by therza2169 Is anyone getting a crazy amount of clunk/pop noises with this setup? At slow speeds while going over bumpy roads, or turning, or while braking to a stop I am getting a terrible amount of noises that one would normally associate with a bad strut mount/bearing, coming from the front passenger side of the car. I've pulled, and prodded on every thing that I can, and had my mechanic do the same thing and we can not find anything out of the ordinary. Anyone else experiencing something similar?

Finally got it figured out, and it was the LCA bolt on the passenger side. Had to throw it up on a lift with the E-brake off, while pressing the brake, and turning the wheel left to replicate the noise while the car was off. Glad that's taken care of!

[[R]usty]

@Adog35;

I'm in the San Fernando Valley. My order initially came with 525/600 but after all the reviews I traded my 600's for 440's and shifted the 525's to the rear. I have no complaints, ride is more comfortable then stock and cornering is absolutely flat. I love the combo!

I was able to trade in my springs free of charge but only because I never installed. $59 + shipping is a good deal, you should definitely take it if you're unhappy with your current setup.

[Mattyhawk1]

I do realize I am probably the last person from the GB that installed the kit, so this info is a “day late / dollar short”, but I thought it would be useful to others if they decide to install the kit in the future.

I had the Koni’s on Stock OEM springs for about 8K miles. They were fine, no issues.

My goal with the GC was to keep it simple and go with the version that did not require cutting off the perches and the version that would work on stock shocks. Goal was to keep a happy wife and a happy life while modding for occasional autox.

As all things go, life got away from me and four months later I now have installed the kit. But that is not the half of it, because against my better judgment, I tend to over think things and sweat the small stuff, therefore I ended up trying many different things to get to a final install.

So, I ended up originally getting the following springs from GC. They were based on ordering the stock shock setup with DD.

GC165.64.96 (6.5/2.5"/550 lbs) rear

GC150.64.77 (6/2.5"/440 lbs) front

As I posted previously, I moved the fronts to the rear and tested it as a preliminary data point, but the 550’s felt too hard for me. I sent all the springs back and get the following springs:

GC180.64.75 (7/2.5"/430 lbs) front and rear

Install was fairly normal. Follow instructions, get a finished product install. I ended up sending back the non-cut perch sleeves for the cut perch version seen here:




Not much length on those sleeves.









Also went with a helper spring setup in front, just couldn’t run these without the helpers, piece of mind issue. Unfortunately lost 3/4” of drop. I will probably order up the Eibach spring dividers, as the thickness is about 1/4” less than the Hyperco ones I used and they will fit down the OD of the GC sleeve, which the Hyperco's do not. Helper springs are Hyperco also.




Yeah, I painted them, I don't know about you, but the yellow poking out of my wheel wells was bugging me.





I didn't mean for the helpers to be blue, oh well, they won't be seen.




The front springs are great, rears, not so much. The spring rates are actually perfect for me, haven’t driven it hard yet to see if it oversteers enough for my driving style though. Problem is the rears are maxed on drop due to the 7” springs, I should have gone 6” in back, I just underestimated going from a 6.5” spring to 7” spring would do and I was worried about doing a shorter softer spring. Live and learn. So I am left with a future problem of the rear not being low enough, not so much right now, but when I switch soon to 17x9’s with 40 size tires. I will probably need to get new rears in a month or so, but I’ll wait until I see how it handles before I decide.

My feeling on the stiffness of the spring is good. The 440 / 550 spring was said by GC to be 20% stiffer than stock. I actually think they are right. Coming from stock spring on Koni’s, the 430 / 430 springs feel almost the same as my setup with OEM springs, only the big bumps are more jarring, but not excessive. I can see now how people (ie @[R]usty; et al) report the setup feels more comfortable than the stock spring setup even though it is stiffer.

Here is before pic of front:





Front at highest setting (offroad style):




And as she stand now, lowest on rear, still could get 1/8-1/4" drop in front with collar adjustment:




I do want to thank everyone in this group buy that came before me that posted their experience, because it helped me achieve my goals. I also want to thank Donovan at Ground Control, who kindly spent hours back and forth with me to figure out the right setup and Donny / RPM for their help making this GB happen.

Overall, I think GC used this group buy to work the kinks out of their MS3 kit, which isn’t cool IMO, but they have been willing to exchange parts without delay for me, so that took the sting out of the issues I have had.

Also, below is the most updated installation instructions from GC, 09/2014. Thought I would put it up for reference.

[alextheguineapig]

I've been trying to follow this thread trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge later on. Good to know about the rates, but why the helper spring up front?

Will the 6 inch rear spring be too jarring? What about the problems with the springs coming loose, has that been worked out yet?


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[[R]usty]

@Mattyhawk1;

Mind changing the color of the font to something other than black, kind of hard to read on a dark blue webpage.

Also

I'm really curious, why did you use a helper spring? If it's a preload issue I can assure you that the sway bars keep these springs loaded unless both tires leave the ground which is not likely.

[subydoored]

lots of good info on here for the spring rate i plan on getting a gc setup in the near future.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by [R]usty @Mattyhawk1; Mind changing the color of the font to something other than black, kind of hard to read on a dark blue webpage.

Yes, sorry about that, I view the website in the light background option, so I didn't catch that it wasn't showing right.

Originally Posted by [R]usty Also I'm really curious, why did you use a helper spring? If it's a preload issue I can assure you that the sway bars keep these springs loaded unless both tires leave the ground which is not likely.

Originally Posted by alextheguineapig I've been trying to follow this thread trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge later on. Good to know about the rates, but why the helper spring up front?

I mentioned the fact that it was piece of mind. I tend to drive like a madman, and speed bumps are all around. I didn't like the idea of potentially unseating the spring, as the shock stroke has substantially more travel than is available in the spring. It's not the offset bumps or cornering I'm concerned about, it is running over things like speed bumps that can unseat the spring.


Not to mention, other coilover kits come with helpers, so at least I'm not crazy, just might not be what others will choose to do.

Originally Posted by alextheguineapig Will the 6 inch rear spring be too jarring? What about the problems with the springs coming loose, has that been worked out yet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe so, based solely on length alone.


The rear springs coming out is considered fixed with the spring cups that now come with the kits.

[alextheguineapig]

Originally Posted by Mattyhawk1 Yes, sorry about that, I view the website in the light background option, so I didn't catch that it wasn't showing right. I mentioned the fact that it was piece of mind. I tend to drive like a madman, and speed bumps are all around. I didn't like the idea of potentially unseating the spring, as the shock stroke has substantially more travel than is available in the spring. It's not the offset bumps or cornering I'm concerned about, it is running over things like speed bumps that can unseat the spring. Not to mention, other coilover kits come with helpers, so at least I'm not crazy, just might not be what others will choose to do. I don't believe so, based solely on length alone. The rear springs coming out is considered fixed with the spring cups that now come with the kits.

I'm like you and I think I like that idea of the helper spring personally. Thanks for the answer.


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[Adog35]

@Mattyhawk1;

Does the car feel more settled when entering driveways with the 7" spring + the helper? (Extra travel)
I currently have 525/600 set up 6" like many others and way planning on doing a swap.
525R/440F but after reading your post I might have having second thoughts.

I know @[R]usty; did the 525R/440F swap and said it rides great, but everyones opinion is well, their opinion. I wish GC did a better job of working out the kinks prior to shipping!

It would be cool if we could all set up a drive one weekend and compare the set ups. (I'm in Woodland Hills, CA)

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by Adog35 @Mattyhawk1; Does the car feel more settled when entering driveways with the 7" spring + the helper? (Extra travel) I currently have 525/600 set up 6" like many others and way planning on doing a swap. 525R/440F but after reading your post I might have having second thoughts. I know @[R]usty; did the 525R/440F swap and said it rides great, but everyones opinion is well, their opinion. I wish GC did a better job of working out the kinks prior to shipping! It would be cool if we could all set up a drive one weekend and compare the set ups. (I'm in Woodland Hills, CA)

I didn't run with the 6" in front before swapping, only the rear. The rear felt the same with the 6" vs 7" spring going over small and big speed bumps at 1-5mph. Take that info as you will, I am making no comment to how that works out in the front, as motion ratio differences front to rear as separate systems will play into the way the spring compress as it encounters forces. Entry into driveway feel I cannot comment on.

Concerning the helper, I cannot compare with or without, as I only ran the fronts with helper. I will say that if you end up doing it, be prepared to spend $100 for the front end. My experience is you want to use the Eibach dividers, which is cheapest at GC at $25 a piece with $10 shipping. The helper spring was expensive at GC, so I went over to paragon-products.com for helper springs from Hyperco, $22 bucks a spring with $10 priority shipping. Once you get the stuff, flip the helper to the bottom (opposite from my assembly picture) so the divider will slide on the GC adjustment sleeve.

Actually, I would consider the way Rusty did the flip as a great affordable option. I would think it is a better performance option but I will probably still get as replacement for the rear the GC150.64.77 (6/2.5"/440 lbs). I run 0* camber, 0* toe and no SWAS, which made my rear very oversteer happy on autox courses with stock springs and Koni's. Since my setup is similar to stock values as a percentage front to rear, I expect the new GC setup to be similar. If I need more oversteer, I'm only on the middle setting with the JBR RSB. I won't be able to get out to Camarillo until December, so I won't be able to test until then.

Meetup? Absolutely, but not for a couple weeks. I am gone on travel for work next week and I still need to finish my alignment this week.

Speaking of, I'm going to have a pair of slightly used GC180.64.75 (7/2.5"/430 lbs) laying around.

[Dimenus]

Just my personal opinion, but since switching to these coils I've enjoyed the car more with no bar on it at all. If I had the time and money to set it up with a bunch of camber I'm sure I'd appreciate the large bar more, but at the moment it (the JBR bar) just makes the transition to snap oversteer too easy.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by Dimenus Just my personal opinion, but since switching to these coils I've enjoyed the car more with no bar on it at all. If I had the time and money to set it up with a bunch of camber I'm sure I'd appreciate the large bar more, but at the moment it (the JBR bar) just makes the transition to snap oversteer too easy.

That's fair, since you have the stiffer springs in back, it negates the need for a stiff RSB because, like you said, the rear gets snappy.

[meicalnissyen]

Originally Posted by therza2169 Finally got it figured out, and it was the LCA bolt on the passenger side. Had to throw it up on a lift with the E-brake off, while pressing the brake, and turning the wheel left to replicate the noise while the car was off. Glad that's taken care of!

Which LCA, out of curiosity

[therza2169]

Originally Posted by meicalnissyen Which LCA, out of curiosity

It was the passenger side front.

[justinsane87]

Originally Posted by [R]usty @Adog35; @justinsane87; @JDMJOSH; Welcome to the life of linear springs and little suspension travel. These aren't your every day progressive springs. They don't change rates based on compression they always have the same rate no matter what. It's great for the track not so good for daily roads. I personally believe after some research that Koni Yellow's are perfectly fine in the low 500 range. Anything higher and I do believe you'll need re-valving to keep up. With all that said I still think you guys can find a combo to your liking. Don't know if you guys saw my post but I'm very happy with the 440f 525r combo. I'm one of the most anal people about comfort so I was very surprised how much I liked the ride quality after all the complaints I've seen. I live in LA and we have some shitty roads here but my kit absorbs bumps surprisingly well. I'm currently sitting at 1/2 turn up front and 2/3 in the back and while it is stiffer it's more comfortable then stock. Also at my current settings I don't bounce around, my car sways against the bumps rather then sticking to every single one (adjustment is key). I think you guys have a few options. 1. Softer springs, GC offers the 6 inch spring in 300, 375, 440, 525 and 550. You will still get some bounce here because we are still dealing with little suspension travel but I can confirm that adjusting your Koni's will definitely help with that. 2. Longer springs GC offers 7 inch springs in 200 250 350 and 430. With these you will lose some stiffness and an inch of adjustability but you will gain a lot more suspension travel and obviously a softer spring. These will probably yield the most comfort this kit can offer. 3. Switch to a progressive coilover kit (don't give up!) I think the beauty of this set is you have the option to play around with a lot of different stuff. A new set of spring is only $70. I think you guys should try out some more spring options and let all of us know how it goes. I think this kit can only get better with user input. edit I'm still working on getting a thread together with my thoughts and testing. I will be strapping a gopro under my car so we can see exactly how these springs are reacting to everyday road conditions. I may also purchase a full set of 7 inch springs to compare. I'll post here when it's up. I'm a busy man so I have no timeline but I'm hoping it's soon.

I just installed the 440s in the front and I'm trying to figure out the damping settings.
The 1/2 turn and 3/4 turn; are those from full soft or full stiff?

[Jdraps13]

Sorry settings are from full stiff not full soft


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[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by justinsane87 I just installed the 440s in the front and I'm trying to figure out the damping settings. The 1/2 turn and 3/4 turn; are those from full soft or full stiff?

Full soft. I actually changed my settings since I wrote this. I'm running full soft in the front and 1/2 turn from full soft in the rear. Car is still stiff but loads more comfortable.

[my2k13speed3]

Not trying to revive old threads but I'm not seeing a whole lot on the GC coils used with stock struts? Any input from anyone?

This is my daily driver that will never see the track and want some height adjust-ability...end of the day I know I should just get them with Koni Yellows but I wanted to see if anyone has experience with stock struts.

[Mattyhawk1]

Originally Posted by my2k13speed3 Not trying to revive old threads but I'm not seeing a whole lot on the GC coils used with stock struts? Any input from anyone? This is my daily driver that will never see the track and want some height adjust-ability...end of the day I know I should just get them with Koni Yellows but I wanted to see if anyone has experience with stock struts.

I do not have experience with stock shocks, but I got the stock shock touring setup as I wanted a soft setup for the street.

My previous post:
GB: GROUND CONTROL + KONI SPORT Coilovers for Mazdaspeed 3!

My kit came with the following:
GC165.64.96 (6.5/2.5"/550 lbs) rear
GC150.64.77 (6/2.5"/440 lbs) front

I landed on these springs for the street
GC180.64.75 (7/2.5"/430 lbs) front
GC150.64.77 (6/2.5"/440 lbs) rear

Running the konis I believe at these rates, the fronts do not have enough compression for even 430 lbs. I ran koni's with stock springs and ran autox on those, and they were good with stock rates. Rears have much better compression valving for the heavier rates.

I tried 350 lbs 7" in front and it felt a lot better with the konis on the street. It was still harder than stock. I wanted stiffer in front for autox so I went back

What I can tell you is don't go higher than 430 lbs if you are running stock shocks. I would suggest a better option is to stay in the 300-400 lbs range if using stock shocks.

Keep in mind that while you can buy springs to try out different rates, buying them is the easy part. Selling them used or even new is hard. Selling with 50% ROI is doing good on new ones.

[btstarcher]

A bit late for the group buy, I know. But I just ordered a set with 600F/700R spring rates.

Yes I know I bumped an old thread, but zero fucks given. Fuck you.

[Mattyhawk1]

Whew, hope the ride doesn't hurt too bad. With spring rates like that, you must be going to the track.

I messed with more spring rates, Now run 7" 350 front and 7" 320 rear for daily, then drop in 7" 440 out back when I want it to handle. Had to for wife approval.

[btstarcher]

After reading this thread I felt best with stiffer spring rates. I drive 90 miles each way to work, but I like a stiff ride.

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[Helrich]

Originally Posted by btstarcher After reading this thread I felt best with stiffer spring rates. I drive 90 miles each way to work, but I like a stiff ride. Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

You've been warned! Since you're in Arkansas maybe this won't be much of an issue, but I'd highly recommend putting some sort of anti-seize on the bolts that go into the spring seats. Steel + aluminum = seized.

[btstarcher]

Originally Posted by Helrich You've been warned! Since you're in Arkansas maybe this won't be much of an issue, but I'd highly recommend putting some sort of anti-seize on the bolts that go into the spring seats. Steel + aluminum = seized.

I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

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[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by btstarcher I'll keep that in mind. Thanks! Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

With that stiff of spring you might want to have those Koni's revalved. The 525 400 combo they sent me was very stiff even on the softest setting.