Maxed out wastegate

[AFcadet]

So since its getting warmer out (40s-50s) my wastegate is being used more and more.

I noticed that I'm having trouble holding 18 psi in the upper RPMs. After about 5500 RPM my wastegate is sometimes maxed at 99% and Ill only be holding mid/high 17psi @ 6000 RPM. Goal is to run 18 psi at 6000

Im fully bolted (minus exhaust mani) with CS catless TBE, and exhaust depot FMIC.

I know others don't have much trouble holding 18-19 psi...however I am thinking that me having the FMIC is making the turbo work harder to fill up the extra 10 feet of piping. Think that is a possibility?

Are the people that are able to hold 18-19 psi at 6000 RPM have TMIC? Anyone with FMIC able to hold that much @ 6000 rpm?

(please only reply if you are experienced...noob inferences are not going to help...thanks)

[FreeFlyFreak]

This doesn't answer your question, but I am going to post it anyway.
psi doesnt really matter, what matters is cfm or g/s

What is the max g/s you are seeing?

[JmkC]

i can only suggest what i have tried.. changing the timing on your tune a bit and a upgraded wg.

[06Speed6]

I dont know what good an upgraded wg would do, but you can upgrade the wg actuator to hold more pressure and force more air through the turbine. It takes alot more turbine/compressor rpm for that stock turbo to make 18psi @ 6000rpm than it does to make 18psi @ 3000rpm and if your wg is running wide open that isnt going to help anything.

Are you tuned?

[JmkC]

i dunno was just my input, i dont max out the wg not though.

[AFcadet]

Yes I am tuned.

Someone mentioned the upgraded wastegate so it will hold more pressure...anyone have a link to a thread or where its being sold?

[flyrevs2]

Grimmspeed EBC , in 3 port mode the wastegate will be pushed closed, stock 2 port bleeder style boost control can't do this

[Realgib3]

Timing and VVT up top could get you there. I'm 100% stock but hold 17+ to 6500 in 3rd and 4th, so I would imagine it would allow you to hold at least 19 if you wanted it...

[AFcadet]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 Timing and VVT up top could get you there. I'm 100% stock but hold 17+ to 6500 in 3rd and 4th, so I would imagine it would allow you to hold at least 19 if you wanted it...

But like others said...boost doesnt necessarily mean more power. To build boost/pressure, you need to have some type of restriction that will let the pressure build. If you have an EXTREMELY good flowing engine, you won't build as much boost, but you will still be getting a lot of air through the motor, and making a lot of power.

Like you said...your 100% stock..so it wouldn't surprise me that you'd be able to build a lot of boost with the restrictive TMIC, and DP.

Regardless...I really want to hold at least 18 psi up top. Has anyone had experience with PTPs wastegate? In theory, it should help hold more boost up top...but I am VERY skeptical of PTPs products.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by AFcadet But like others said...boost doesnt necessarily mean more power. To build boost/pressure, you need to have some type of restriction that will let the pressure build. If you have an EXTREMELY good flowing engine, you won't build as much boost, but you will still be getting a lot of air through the motor, and making a lot of power. Like you said...your 100% stock..so it wouldn't surprise me that you'd be able to build a lot of boost with the restrictive TMIC, and DP. Regardless...I really want to hold at least 18 psi up top. Has anyone had experience with PTPs wastegate? In theory, it should help hold more boost up top...but I am VERY skeptical of PTPs products.

i see what you're tryin to say but the fact is the more efficient your setup is, the easier it will make it for the turbo to hold boost. When i was fully bolted i easily held 18-20psi to readline.

[AFcadet]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 i see what you're tryin to say but the fact is the more efficient your setup is, the easier it will make it for the turbo to hold boost. When i was fully bolted i easily held 18-20psi to readline.

You had a FMIC or TMIC?

[holeinmypocket]

Originally Posted by AFcadet But like others said...boost doesnt necessarily mean more power. To build boost/pressure, you need to have some type of restriction that will let the pressure build. If you have an EXTREMELY good flowing engine, you won't build as much boost, but you will still be getting a lot of air through the motor, and making a lot of power. Like you said...your 100% stock..so it wouldn't surprise me that you'd be able to build a lot of boost with the restrictive TMIC, and DP. Regardless...I really want to hold at least 18 psi up top. Has anyone had experience with PTPs wastegate? In theory, it should help hold more boost up top...but I am VERY skeptical of PTPs products.

I had a reworked K04 and was able to hold at least 18 psi up until redline.

nice ass ^^^^

[06Speed6]

The PTP WG actuator and the grimmspeed EBC, with the proper tune, should allow to to run as much boost as the turbo can make.

[Realgib3]

Top Mount.... didn't think about that, but that could make a difference.

[AFcadet]

Yea...I really think the extra 10 feet of piping is making a difference.

its very obvious that the K04 already has trouble up top...so this extra piping may be making a difference.

Now I just need to find out if the wastegate is actually being closed all the way and the turbo is just running out of juice for my setup...or if the wastegate is not being closed all the way (duty cycle is maxed) and a aftermarket wastegate solenoid with a stiffer spring would help close it all the way to hold a little more boost up top.

[JmkC]

here is a quick log i did tonight of a 3rd and 4th hear pull. still working on the tune but you can see its possible to hold psi up top

[AFcadet]

Originally Posted by JmkC here is a quick log i did tonight of a 3rd and 4th hear pull. still working on the tune but you can see its possible to hold psi up top

Thanks...I see you have the PTP wastegate and FMIC. Did you have trouble holding boost up top before you had the upgraded wastegate?

Also...how did you adjust the wastegate with the AP. (which spring did you use...did you have to change the WGDC table in ATR?)

Thanks for your help

[dead-zone]

Originally Posted by JmkC here is a quick log i did tonight of a 3rd and 4th hear pull. still working on the tune but you can see its possible to hold psi up top

I just wonder why your boost does not start to go down in the high rpms. Did u leave it that way?

[JmkC]

Never really had trouble i adjusted timing but the stock wg was maxing out. the ptp wg only comes with one spring and i slightly changed the tables in atr.

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by JmkC Never really had trouble i adjusted timing but the stock wg was maxing out. the ptp wg only comes with one spring and i slightly changed the tables in atr.

hey man...I see you are running the PTP WGA...how was the install? I can't find a how-to and I want to know what happens to the extra vacuum line that's on the stock WGA?

and can you tell me which tables you adjusted?

I also have the Grimmspeed EBCS, and it recommends -30% WGDC, but I can seem to find the right way to adjust the whole table.

[JmkC]

Originally Posted by Fobio hey man...I see you are running the PTP WGA...how was the install? I can't find a how-to and I want to know what happens to the extra vacuum line that's on the stock WGA? and can you tell me which tables you adjusted? I also have the Grimmspeed EBCS, and it recommends -30% WGDC, but I can seem to find the right way to adjust the whole table.

yeah there isnt a how to, and it was kind of a pita that i didnt want to make one. just follow the directions that come with it. ill tell you this when it comes to removing the little clip that holds the wg arm on the turbo, unbolt the wg and push it to the passenger side because then you can see the clip.

well the stock wg has 2 nipples for the vac/boost tubes and the ptp only has one. so i just used a tee to tie it all back together.

in atr you have your wgdc table, i pretty much started with stock values, and increased and decrease to control the boost the way i wanted.

[AFcadet]

oh ok. So you were maxing out the wastegate...you added this upgraded WG actuator...and it lowered your wastegate duty cycle.

thats what Im looking for...thanks.

[AFcadet]

I havnt been having good performance out of my Forge WGA.

I have the yellow spring (9-14 psi) in...and I started with the preload low and wasnt able to hold stock boost levels. I slowly build up more preload...untill now I spool up very quick...and will even over boost (0% WGDC) in 35 degree weather...yet Ill still get a maxed out WGDC above 5000 RPM and hold LOWER boost then the stock WGA.

So its quiet wierd. Mid RPMs I am getting MORE boost...but upper level RPM I am getting maxed wastegate again but LESS boost.

[xtremeboost]

Originally Posted by AFcadet I havnt been having good performance out of my Forge WGA. I have the yellow spring (9-14 psi) in...and I started with the preload low and wasnt able to hold stock boost levels. I slowly build up more preload...untill now I spool up very quick...and will even over boost (0% WGDC) in 35 degree weather...yet Ill still get a maxed out WGDC above 5000 RPM and hold LOWER boost then the stock WGA. So its quiet wierd. Mid RPMs I am getting MORE boost...but upper level RPM I am getting maxed wastegate again but LESS boost.

What happens with the forged units is that sometimes on cars trying to run 15-20lbs they seen to work just as you just explained . The fix should be a larger diameter piston of diaphragm to control and stabilize boost at those levels . I'm working on such a unit this coming week .

[AFcadet]

Originally Posted by xtremeboost What happens with the forged units is that sometimes on cars trying to run 15-20lbs they seen to work just as you just explained . The fix should be a larger diameter piston of diaphragm to control and stabilize boost at those levels . I'm working on such a unit this coming week .

Hm...great.

I see your a vender...but who is your affiliation with?

[BudUMfan]

Wow cadet, I rode in your car and it pulls like a freight train. I can't imagine what it'll be like if you get it even MORE dialed in.

[JmkC]

i use to have forge.. switched to hks not only for sound but so i didnt have to mess around with adjusting the forge

[xcoldricex]

we are talking about the forge wastegate actuator not the bpv.

[JmkC]

ahh good call. thats why i should stay away from the computer after i have been drinking

[AFcadet]

Alright little update.

I had the Forge wastegate acuator put in and it didnt really work at all. Id get higher boost with less wastegate duty in mid RPMs...but boost would die off worse than before at higher RPMs.

I got PTPs Wastgate actuator and so far its working great.

I'm still dialing in the tune...but right now Im able to hold 19.5 psi at 6000 RPM with around 60% WGDC (Before Id hold 17.5 psi @ 6000 RPM with 100% WGDC) and no crazy boost spikes.

I was able to do some testing with other guys cars in the area that I've been tuning...and like I thought...the key to holding boost with the stock WGA is a TMIC. A local guy (bud) who has a upgraded TMIC was able to hold 17.5 psi @ 6000 with only 75% WGDC. Then my other buddy with a FMIC (xcoldricex) was maxing out the WGDC around 17.5 psi @ 6000 RPM (like me).

So if you want to hold a good amount of boost up top in weather warmer than 40* F with a FMIC...you really need to get an aftermarket WGA

[JMEngineer]

Good info... I'm still using the stock WGA and I'm not having any trouble hitting my targets (at least when my intercooler isn't cracked) but the control sucks. When I should have a constant 17psi my boost gauge just shakes around 17±1.5psi. I heard the PTP WGA helps with that too. Have you noticed an improvement in boost control other than being able to hit your target?

[JmkC]

I hold a pretty consistance boost with the PTP wg. I am sure AFcadet can attest to that

[AFcadet]

actually Im running into a bit of a issue concerning boost control.

It would hold boost really steady up untill around 5700 RPM...then it would shoot up from 19.5 psi to 21-22 psi. No idea why because my load is flat between 5500-6500 RPM.

I tried lowering my wastegate duty cycle in the upper RPMs from 50 down to 35...and now it tapers down to 17 psi. So it looks like the key to steady boost control with the PTP WGA is using the wastegate duty cycle table...which I know JmkC mentioned something about this either in this thread or another one. So im going to slowly bump up my WGDC numbers in the upper RPMS untill I get a nice flat boost number.

JM Engineer...your flucuating boost might be an issue with the crack in the TMIC forming. I have always had really steady boost with the stock WGA.

[JMEngineer]

I had the boost control problem long before the crack formed and I still have it now with the stock intercooler back on. I might be able to help it with some tuning (I'm using a modified Cobb stage 2 tune and I haven't done anything with the WGA tables) but I've also heard that it's very hard to get steady boost when you're pushing over double the WG spring pressure.

[Fobio]

Can I please have some help to review this log? I'm maxing out the PTP WGA...I have the Grimmspeed EBCS, but my mechanic haven't "visualized" in his mind how to connect the EBCS in 3-port w/ the PTP WGA with only one nipple...anyway, will work with him Monday to sort it out...in the mean time, what can I do about this:

[fjames]

Originally Posted by Fobio Can I please have some help to review this log? I'm maxing out the PTP WGA...I have the Grimmspeed EBCS, but my mechanic haven't "visualized" in his mind how to connect the EBCS in 3-port w/ the PTP WGA with only one nipple...anyway, will work with him Monday to sort it out...in the mean time, what can I do about this:

Doesn't a single nipple WGA make it simpler? I thought the way it worked was boost source->GS->WGA. That takes care of two GS ports (in from boost source and out to WGA) then the third is the intake line. So instead of the WGA being always charged and having to bleed some of that off (like the stock system) what you have is the ability to completely shut down the WGA (because boost source is flowing first through the GS.)

WGDC is really solenoid duty cycle, so if the solenoid is plugged in, you'll log something, whether or not it's actually doing anything I think.

[AFcadet]

First of all...when your doing logs get rid of all the shit that isnt pertinent. Like vehicle speed, intake temp, inj. duty cycle, fuel trims, etc. Every PID that you log is going to restrict how many logs you get per second. You can see you only get like....1 or 2 logs per second because your logging EVERY parameter available. Only log what you need (I just do, RPM, Boost, Knock, Throttle Position, Boost, Wastegate Duty Cycle).

My guess is that your WGA is not even hooked up correctly to your WG solenoid....or the solenoid is not working.

You can see the solenoid is "doing work" but there is no building of boost. The PTP WGA has a 15 pound spring in it...and it looks like your only getting the spring pressure and no pressure from the solenoid.

So yea...its either not hooked up right or the solenoid is not working.

[Fobio]

thanks...

after I updated the AP, I think it resets the parameters I removed fopr logging...I'll make another one today...

[BudUMfan]

Seems to be holding a little higher in the warmer weather, 18-18.5 with no spikes. I need to post up a log of my tasty tune.