Using the App translation tables for smooth powerful results

[dread]

I posted these results in the jerky throttle thread, but decided to make a new thread at the requests of other members. I used the app translation in combination with the throttle req. load tables to get a smooth and powerful map. The results are awesome. Very responsive and linear thottle, while not being too sensitive. I think the lag problem caused by linear load tables is best fixed with the app tables. The stock app tables are set up to work with the stock throttle req load tables that ramp up load quickly. That being said the app table I posted above is made to work with the load table I posted below. I used the same app table for all gears.

App translation to be put in all gear app tables other than neutral.

0.00	0.32	1.28	2.85	4.52	6.18	7.85	9.51	11.37	13.04	14.83	16.63	18.42	20.22	22.01	23.81	28.30	32.78	37.27	41.76	46.25	50.74	55.22	59.71	65.69	72.41	79.12	82.48	85.83	92.55	100.00

Throttle req. load data for tables a and c.

0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00
0.64	0.46	0.34	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21	0.21
0.67	0.68	0.61	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43	0.43
0.68	0.77	0.80	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.65
0.69	0.80	0.90	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87	0.87
0.69	0.81	0.94	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09	1.09
0.70	0.82	0.95	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31	1.31
0.70	0.83	0.96	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52	1.52
0.70	0.82	0.97	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70	1.70
0.70	0.83	0.97	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88	1.88
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06	2.06
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20
0.70	0.83	0.97	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20

[Fobio]

I will give this a go this wknd.

[smakdown61]

Just tried it out. Feels great so far. Very good throttle response like the ots maps but much much more linear.

[jahman]

I knew you'd like the app tables. I havent messed around with them too much but it looks like you have.

I'll be trying this on my next map.

[dread]

nice glad you like it smak. I love the way the car drives. Now I'll be done once I finish tuning out my high rpm knock

[kgb]

I'll try this too tonight and see how if works....must say your tweaks have really helped.

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

Applied these to my map to be flashed tonite, and then after some more logs I'll have to tune out my WOT knock.

[dread]

I already cut my knock in half by adding fuel, and lowering load. The problem I am having is my boost is too high above 5k rpm and my turbo is probably a flame thrower. My next map is using the boost throttle close tables to limit boost up top. I am just hoping the throttle only closes slightly and doesn't slam shut.

[Fobio]

definitely brings the wild child back...just enough that I'll keep these changes for the dyno and track map for the next 2 wknds...for the commute, I may go back to your original throttle fixes, so I have a little bit more pedal play to vent frustration on the commute...thanks!

[Arrowpoint]

Dread, thanks for all the info you are generously sharing with the forum. You've always impressed me with the amount of time and effort you put in not just for yourself but for the others on this forum. I just wanted to point that out.

I'd like so see a complete map with all your changes. According to what I've read and from my testing it seems to hold true that whichever values in the Throttle req load tables and the gear specific load tables is lower are the values that get used. Are the values in your gear specific tables set high to force the ecu to use the throttle req a and c tables. I am begining to think that posting the values in one of these tables without the values in the other is useless since depending on what those values are the ecu may be switching back and forth between these three tables.

I know it's a pain in the ass but if you could post the map or better still the values in all your tables? It would be extremely helpfull.

I can see dissadvantages to the pieces parts method of info exchange we are useing now. This full disclosure is going to become more inportant as we learn more widely how all the tables relate to each other.

[dread]

I still use the gear based load tables but those don't come into affect until higher throttle requests. I like the gear based tuning. I am not sure how to upload maps I keep getting errors. I will post them up if someone tells me how.

[dread]

Ok I figured it out. here is the map stage 1+93 octane cali spec with dread's special sauce. Nevermind the forum won't let me attach the same map in two places. It is 107h in the tuning out knock thread.

[fostersafb]

Originally Posted by dread Ok I figured it out. here is the map stage 1+93 octane cali spec with dread's special sauce. Nevermind the forum won't let me attach the same map in two places. It is 107h in the tuning out knock thread.

dread, can you post your full map in the same format (code) you posted the TRL and APP translation tables at the beginning of this thread? Unless we have the same year, etc as your car ATR wont open the file.

Interested to try the APP translation changes you made.

Thanks.

[Arrowpoint]

+1^^^ I know it's a pain but if you can spare the time it would be great. I haven't tried yet but I don't think my ATR Fed will load the Cali maps.

[jahman]

If you use dreads map, be very careful and watch your logs closely.

Its not that dreads a bad guy...its just his load values are close to 2.00 in some places. His car and mine have the same exact mods, yet, I'm making the same boost as he is with values in the 1.75 range. If I used 2.00...i'd boost 27 psi and knock the hubble telescope out of orbit with one (or more) of my rods.

My point being...all of our cars act differently. This is why the OTS maps were so unsuccessful.

Be careful with this software, itd be very easy to start getting careless as some of us become more confident with its use.

[dread]

Yes I do not recommend copying my maps onto your ecu. My load values are pretty high for some reason. I actually lowered them from the custom map christian gave me. I think my car is a freak, I out dyno'd stage 2+ guys on the 102 maps.

[Arrowpoint]

I've been slowly increasing the gear load tables and am peakiing in the 190's. The car is pulling harder than it ever has. Boost is peaking at 20psi and tapering nicely to 17psi.
I don't want to use the map. I'm in a Fed model. I want to load the map into ATR and compare it to stock and the map I'm running now.
I was running peakes in the 180's and getting LTFT's of -2,0,1,2 but when I got into the 190's LTFT's went to 2,4,8,10 so now I guess I'll either reduce load values or go back to the MAF.

[dread]

arrow, load doesn't affect ltft's, give them more time to settle

foster, I am not sure what you are looking for, everything you need is in the first post. All the other changes I have made were to tune out the knock. Just copy the app trans data into the table for each gear.

[Fobio]

there may be some confusion is terminology here...

dread posted values for a few tables. A collection of all the tables makes a map. You should just apply dread's values/tables to your corresponding tables in your own map.

My car spikes to 22 psi...holds mid 18's...it's been this way whether I was running dread's values or not.

[Speedn3]

Originally Posted by dread I posted these results in the jerky throttle thread, but decided to make a new thread at the requests of other members. I used the app translation in combination with the throttle req. load tables to get a smooth and powerful map. The results are awesome. Very responsive and linear thottle, while not being too sensitive. I think the lag problem caused by linear load tables is best fixed with the app tables. The stock app tables are set up to work with the stock throttle req load tables that ramp up load quickly. That being said the app table I posted above is made to work with the load table I posted below. I used the same app table for all gears. App translation to be put in all gear app tables other than neutral. 0.00 0.32 1.28 2.85 4.52 6.18 7.85 9.51 11.37 13.04 14.83 16.63 18.42 20.22 22.01 23.81 28.30 32.78 37.27 41.76 46.25 50.74 55.22 59.71 65.69 72.41 79.12 82.48 85.83 92.55 100.00 Throttle req. load data for tables a and c. 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.64 0.46 0.34 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.21 0.67 0.68 0.61 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.43 0.68 0.77 0.80 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.65 0.69 0.80 0.90 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.87 0.69 0.81 0.94 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 0.70 0.82 0.95 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 1.31 0.70 0.83 0.96 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 1.52 0.70 0.82 0.97 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 1.70 0.70 0.83 0.97 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 1.88 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 0.70 0.83 0.97 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20 2.20

Thanks for sharing dread.
Have you or anyone else datalogged any WOT runs with these changes?
If so, did you notice any changes with WOT KR?

[jahman]

This doesnt affect WOT KR. Infact at WOT the ECU ignores the req load tables and goes by load by gear.

APP tables really only have to do with the throttle response.

[dread]

Originally Posted by jahman This doesnt affect WOT KR. Infact at WOT the ECU ignores the req load tables and goes by load by gear. APP tables really only have to do with the throttle response.

ha beat me to it.

[Trader]

These changes feel great. I did notice that they changed my LTFT though the high LTFT went from +3 to +8.

[dread]

Originally Posted by Trader These changes feel great. I did notice that they changed my LTFT though the high LTFT went from +3 to +8.

These changes have no effect on ltft's. Something else is affecting them or your map needs more time to settle.

[dread]

I have done a ton of logs, this doesn't affect WOT load and does not change KR.

[Speedn3]

Since I've did the throttle smoothing I have not seen much if any part throttle kr.

[Nliiitend1]

Has anyone done any dyno testing to see if/how this might affect the torque/horsepower curves?

[RichB]

I just made these changes and went out for a quick spin and love it. My WOT power feels about the same but the part throttle drivability is so predictable now. I love It! Thanks for all of your research Dread. I can't wait to see how my drive in to work feels tomorrow. Once I get my MAF cal where I want it, my req load tables per gear are next.

[Mini Franki]

Its supposed to work on 2e gen?

Because my APP table have only 20 values but the fix here have 31 values

Im using the 1st dread's fix(without app mod) but if he said, linear throttle reponse make lag, i really want to try this one. But if i change APP, that will affect something else?

I try to get back my pedal feeling when i had hypertech! A linear aggressive pedal response

[Mini Franki]

bump